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Post by Lola m on Feb 8, 2005 22:47:07 GMT -5
Nope. Poor fools. They must not watch the show! ;D
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 8, 2005 22:51:08 GMT -5
We still got our key themes here though. Identity and hiding behind false public images, false identities. Who are you really? Who is really your father? Where has your mother really gone? Who's really responsible for the crime? Lola Good point.... Veronica already seemed to learn that it doesn't matter if Keith is her 'real' father, which is good, because he's obviously the best in town anyway. And now she and Logan have even more in common. They might become phone buddies after all.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 8, 2005 22:53:05 GMT -5
Oh crap. It was all there, wasn't it? Jeez. Which means that Veronica had sussed it out beforehand. I don't think she sussed it out until right before we saw the ducks.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 8, 2005 22:55:08 GMT -5
Lily, by the way...it is beginning to puzzle me very much why she was so loved. She seems like Cordelia Chase without the redeeming qualities. Well, your friends love you, even if you are an asshole. AND: post-mortem, the biggest jerk can get transformed into the most sacred sweet angel by the revisionist memories of those who liked a person, the image they created, more than knew the person. Logan did both: knew Lily and loved her: which is why he used Veronica's tape to make a "Speaker for the Dead" type tribute to her: showing her, warts and sweetnesses and all. I think I'd kind of like for a Speaker to perform my service, when the time comes. Btw, my view of this comes from my conception of my friend Cat: she's a complete and total bitch to most humans on this earth, but she treats me and a select few others like gold. I know her, I love her, and I think she's a complete asshole. But if she'd died somehow during her junior year in High School, she would have been sanctified up to the level of an angel that everyone loved. Just the way it is with things like that: combined with our tendency to never say of the dead that "He was a complete and total sunnuvabitch: the only reason I came to the funeral was to make sure for myself that the bastard was dead" My aunt had one of those funerals.. ;D
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Post by Matthew on Feb 8, 2005 22:55:46 GMT -5
Snark will get you everywhere, young man! Hey, it was snarking flattery!!
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Post by Lola m on Feb 8, 2005 22:56:05 GMT -5
Good point.... Veronica already seemed to learn that it doesn't matter if Keith is her 'real' father, which is good, because he's obviously the best in town anyway. And now she and Logan have even more in common. They might become phone buddies after all. That's what I was thinking!! (Even the "phone buddies" thing.) Brainshare. ;D
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 8, 2005 22:56:34 GMT -5
I think she was one of those people who sucked you in because she was so full of life. But we're getting to see more sides to her now and she was certainly messed up in some ways. And certainly a typical snotty Neptune High rich girl in some ways. And probably a good and fun friend in some ways. I wonder if we're getting more views of her because Veronica is opening her eyes more about Lily. Her experiences with losing all her friends and the other changes in her life have made her grow up so much and, I think, given her another look at Lily and herself back then. Judging by tonight, she's not always happy with what she's seeing. Lola Yes...we are seeing Lily through her eyes aren't we? So...yeah.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 8, 2005 22:57:31 GMT -5
That's what I was thinking!! (Even the "phone buddies" thing.) Brainshare. ;D I'd be honored to share your brain anytime! and now I'm off to the tv again...Night Lola and Matthew!
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Post by Lola m on Feb 8, 2005 22:58:14 GMT -5
Well, your friends love you, even if you are an asshole. AND: post-mortem, the biggest jerk can get transformed into the most sacred sweet angel by the revisionist memories of those who liked a person, the image they created, more than knew the person. Logan did both: knew Lily and loved her: which is why he used Veronica's tape to make a "Speaker for the Dead" type tribute to her: showing her, warts and sweetnesses and all. I think I'd kind of like for a Speaker to perform my service, when the time comes. Btw, my view of this comes from my conception of my friend Cat: she's a complete and total bitch to most humans on this earth, but she treats me and a select few others like gold. I know her, I love her, and I think she's a complete asshole. But if she'd died somehow during her junior year in High School, she would have been sanctified up to the level of an angel that everyone loved. Just the way it is with things like that: combined with our tendency to never say of the dead that "He was a complete and total sunnuvabitch: the only reason I came to the funeral was to make sure for myself that the bastard was dead" My aunt had one of those funerals.. ;D Yep. I loved all the memorial scenes for that very reason. The idea of remember the whole person, the way they really were.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 8, 2005 23:00:30 GMT -5
Yes...we are seeing Lily through her eyes aren't we? So...yeah. You know, this is something I'm really gonna have to try harder to remember. We never really "see" Lily at all in the show. I mean as a living character now. We see everybody's memories. And we see ghost Lily, who might be real or might be hallucination. But we aren't really seeing actual, right in front of us exactly as she was, Lily. Huh. Lola Well, I'm off to bed, s'cubie-kins! Talk at ya later!
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Post by Matthew on Feb 8, 2005 23:04:46 GMT -5
You know, this is something I'm really gonna have to try harder to remember. We never really "see" Lily at all in the show. I mean as a living character now. We see everybody's memories. And we see ghost Lily, who might be real or might be hallucination. But we aren't really seeing actual, right in front of us exactly as she was, Lily. Huh. Lola Well, I'm off to bed, s'cubie-kins! Talk at ya later! Huh... are you implying that the flashbacks might be subjective reflections of Lily, and not objective ones? 'Cause that doesn't seem to.... jibe with the storytelling conventions we've seen thus far. I think it much more likely that Lily just contains multitudes, and the flashbacks reveal her in all her states, objectively: just that before we'd seen the flashbacks in question, Veronica herself had never reflected on those aspects of Lily's personality.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 9, 2005 8:08:02 GMT -5
I think she was one of those people who sucked you in because she was so full of life. But we're getting to see more sides to her now and she was certainly messed up in some ways. And certainly a typical snotty Neptune High rich girl in some ways. And probably a good and fun friend in some ways. I wonder if we're getting more views of her because Veronica is opening her eyes more about Lily. Her experiences with losing all her friends and the other changes in her life have made her grow up so much and, I think, given her another look at Lily and herself back then. Judging by tonight, she's not always happy with what she's seeing. Lola Very interesting comparison Patti and Lola. I had not thought of Lily in that way but it is wonderful the way they are fleshing the character of Lily out. And I love the transparenty effects during those types of scenes. Things I liked: the opening segue - which has already been commented on. Still very nice editing. I loved the Veronica/Wallace hair scene and her I'm not scrawny. Also loved the "crabs" sorority speak scene. But all my love this episode really went to Logan and every single scene he was in. Truly wanted to jump into the television last night during the final scene. His pain was just pulsing through the knock on Veronica's door scene. And I for one liked the continuity of finding out who it was that Logan kissed. As for the actual story -yeah, it was kind of meh. I really didn't care about the brother - think they should have cast someone who could have played those scenes better. But, like everyone else, I don't watch VM for the mystery of the week. Can't wait for AH, Trina, to make her appearance.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 9, 2005 8:32:08 GMT -5
Huh... are you implying that the flashbacks might be subjective reflections of Lily, and not objective ones? 'Cause that doesn't seem to.... jibe with the storytelling conventions we've seen thus far. I think it much more likely that Lily just contains multitudes, and the flashbacks reveal her in all her states, objectively: just that before we'd seen the flashbacks in question, Veronica herself had never reflected on those aspects of Lily's personality. I don't think we're seeing what's not true in the flashbacks, but closer to your second paragraph. That we're only seeing the things people think of at that moment. And so, as they reflect more on Lily, we'll see more sides of her. That said, I think we should be on the lookout for slight shadings to Lily. Just little things that perhaps filter the way we see her. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Feb 9, 2005 8:39:11 GMT -5
Very interesting comparison Patti and Lola. I had not thought of Lily in that way but it is wonderful the way they are fleshing the character of Lily out. And I love the transparenty effects during those types of scenes. Things I liked: the opening segue - which has already been commented on. Still very nice editing. I loved the Veronica/Wallace hair scene and her I'm not scrawny. Also loved the "crabs" sorority speak scene. But all my love this episode really went to Logan and every single scene he was in. Truly wanted to jump into the television last night during the final scene. His pain was just pulsing through the knock on Veronica's door scene. And I for one liked the continuity of finding out who it was that Logan kissed. As for the actual story -yeah, it was kind of meh. I really didn't care about the brother - think they should have cast someone who could have played those scenes better. But, like everyone else, I don't watch VM for the mystery of the week. Can't wait for AH, Trina, to make her appearance. Yeppers to all you said. Although I think I liked the case of the week and the story with the brother better. I thought it fit in nicely with the themes we've been getting so far. And I thought that the relationship between young Hamilton and his dad was a nice mirror for Logan and his dad. Even though Mr. Echolls was trying to be nice here - and like Matthew, I did feel a bit sorry for him, he seemed so lost - we are reminded that he hasn't been very nice to Logan or his wife in the past. Not that I think Mr. Music Producer was hitting his son or anything. Just that we can see he hasn't been very caring. Saying snotty things about him, sometimes right to his face - yelling at him just for being there, etc. We certainly didn't see the caring, protective feelings that he displayed about his daughter. So I thought the two stories played against each other nicely. Lola
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Post by Pixi on Feb 9, 2005 9:50:56 GMT -5
Yeppers to all you said. Although I think I liked the case of the week and the story with the brother better. I thought it fit in nicely with the themes we've been getting so far. And I thought that the relationship between young Hamilton and his dad was a nice mirror for Logan and his dad. Even though Mr. Echolls was trying to be nice here - and like Matthew, I did feel a bit sorry for him, he seemed so lost - we are reminded that he hasn't been very nice to Logan or his wife in the past. Not that I think Mr. Music Producer was hitting his son or anything. Just that we can see he hasn't been very caring. Saying snotty things about him, sometimes right to his face - yelling at him just for being there, etc. We certainly didn't see the caring, protective feelings that he displayed about his daughter. So I thought the two stories played against each other nicely. Lola Another very good comparison Lola. It did provide a nice parellel. The casting just didn't work for me - why does the science nerd have to be chunky with glasses? If they had not dialed up central casting and ordered such a specific stereotype I would have enjoyed it far more. Never having been a Harry Hamlin fan in the past I think he has struck career renaissance here and is doing a fabulous job. I wonder what's really behind the quitting my careerspeak because I really, really don't buy it.
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