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Post by Pixi on Oct 21, 2005 14:50:36 GMT -5
Wow - Spring. Wow - that was a fantastic analysis. My brain is still trying to assimilate it all. I love the way you find the theme and focus on it and then show all the ways things relate to it.
The Duncan shirt.
"straight and true blue to Julie (while Veronica does her best dirty school girl), and the very, very similar shirt Logan is wearing, when he encounters Veronica in the sunshine outside the school."
I love this take on it. Because the shirt is not in Logan's colors and everyone and his brother catches that.
I agree about the pregancy/abortion scenary about Meg and another line to reinforce this is her comment in Normal that Meg was acting like she had seduced Duncan on their wedding night. A very weird comment at the time which makes a lot more sense now.
And where was Duncan all summer before he began his stalking career? I've read spec that there might have been a quickie marriage and annulment.
I do think the Catholic school uniforms were very indicative and an interpretation that Meg was/is/had a pregnancy and abortion would really be the only thing supporting that very weird pull the plug line.
Loved the circles and time analysis. Logan's pointing at his non-existent watch now seems more than just a snarky or Caddyshack moment.
And finally - the ass moments? How much do I love this? There was a lot of ass wasn't there? Great observation. Loved that.
I think that this episode is going to end up being very important in the overall mystery arc.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 21, 2005 14:51:09 GMT -5
Two middle of the night thoughts: We never did see what decision Veronica made about looking at Meg's files, right? If Lamb could find out that the guy was a cop, why did Keith only find out about his record? Undercover? Guy planted fake prison record knowing Keith would look? But Lamb had no problem identifying him as a Chicago cop. I'm confused. I think she's resisting temptation. Which is silly, she should just delete it. And maybe Keith didn't look beyond "three years in Lompoc" and felt no need to dig deeper. That was my feel too. I mean, that Keith accepted the surface info because he was coming from a place where he trusted Alicia and it fit with what Alicia told him. Don is motivated to dig deeper, because he doesn't trust Keith a whit, plus he's got to worry about actually picking up and arresting the guy, so . . . he's in a much different place than Keith. He's going to dig, where Keith is not (and is in fact, motivated NOT to dig, since he wants to believe Alicia).
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 21, 2005 14:51:56 GMT -5
I think she's resisting temptation. Which is silly, she should just delete it. And maybe Keith didn't look beyond "three years in Lompoc" and felt no need to dig deeper. Can you become a cop with a prison record? Or was that fake? I assumed the whole "Carl Morgan" story was a total fake "undercover identity" type of thing.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 21, 2005 14:56:58 GMT -5
She has visiting hours? Is she out of a coma? "FOUND it in his gym bag.." Collin Nevin Man, if you need to know that much about someone, you really shouldn't be thinking about it. Yet. That's sorta pathologicial. Well, sorta pathological really sums up the client well, I think. ;D Yup. We saw his little brother last season in the ep where Keith helped Alicia get rid of the icky tenant. Or is he evil . . . . ? Jury's still out, but I can't believe he's Mr. Wonderful or Alicia wouldn't be avoiding him like she is. I doubt he's evil. I am clueless what this is going to all be about, but I suspect that Alicia married some guy (Fennel) when she was pregnant by Nathan Wood, or when Wallace was very little. And that Wallace has always thought that guy was his dad, and that the Fennel guy actually IS his little brother's dad. But anyhow, I don't think that Nathan Wood (Wallace's dad) is evil. He and Alicia have had some kind of major differences long ago, and she split with Wallace - perhaps never even officially admitting that Nathan was the father . . . and then, not wanting Wallace to know the truth, she stayed away from him . . .? Oh heck. I don't know. We'll see. I just want Keith & Alicia to stay together though, and this is making that look tough.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 21, 2005 15:12:01 GMT -5
Wow - Spring. Wow - that was a fantastic analysis. My brain is still trying to assimilate it all. I love the way you find the theme and focus on it and then show all the ways things relate to it. The Duncan shirt. "straight and true blue to Julie (while Veronica does her best dirty school girl), and the very, very similar shirt Logan is wearing, when he encounters Veronica in the sunshine outside the school." I love this take on it. Because the shirt is not in Logan's colors and everyone and his brother catches that. I was really surprised to come to the discussion thread and find discussion about Logan's shirt. I only noticed it because it looked so much like Colin's shirt (it's slightly different), had the vertical lines I'd been seeing the whole ep, and I thought there were deliberate comparisons being made between Julie-Veronica, Colin-Logan (Veronica Mars has accused me of evil!). I never even noticed that "blue isn't his usual color." So anyhow, I was glad I had included my shirt observation, after seeing it talked about here. Yes, agree - and Duncan's line about "continuing the Kane legacy," loads of references to genealogy and fatherhood (Wallace finding out Nathan is his dad seemed to point to a "teenage pregnancy" type scenario for Alicia). Yes - Logan, showing Veronica his "watch" as if to say, "it's getting late." Right place/wrong time. If you rewatch, listen for all the references to time. And look for all the circles. They are everywhere. Tons of it!! I have that feeling too, though it's impossible to say how exactly it will all fit in. I liked the episode very well overall. And thanks for the feedback, Pixi!
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Post by Lurking Rae on Oct 21, 2005 15:20:24 GMT -5
Rae - I meant to credit that Long Haul info. I pulled it's description off the Love Shack. The other Nicholas Cage poster description - I have read so many, many LJ entries lately that I don't remember. I know deathisyourart did a lot of discussion of background info. Did you discuss it too? Was it zimshan? If I neglected to give the proper credit - I apologize. Abuse me. Throw Logan dolls at me. Do you have the new Logan in a towel version? ;D I didn't discuss Matchstick Men too much because I too agree with you that one is very obvious. Good analysis. That's why I think the Angels one must mean something too - but since I really, really hate that movie, it's harder to analyze. Aww, don't apologize. I was just teasing ya about the poster thing. I've seen it everywhere actually and that's kinda what I meant. Was being a bit jokey sarcastic actually - which I didn't convey really well with Mr. Winky. And, now 'cuz I'm all paranoid about crediting myself, deathisyourart's LJ was the first place I saw it mentioned but then I saw it many other places as well.
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Post by Sharky on Oct 21, 2005 15:27:54 GMT -5
Excellent analysis, Spring! The idea that Meg might be or have been pregnant had escaped me. But then I'm pretty shallow.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Oct 21, 2005 18:20:29 GMT -5
Veronica Mars 2x04 __________________ The little kid 'are you hitting that' hehe. The man from the hotel, creepy. I don't know if Wallace's mum is telling the truth with the whole 'old boyfriend' story. Oh so the guy might be an ex boyfriend. He done some naughty crimes in his time. I really dislike Jackie Duncan is a fool Haha Veronica got maaad. No Veronica No! bad bad bad Veronica. Don't steal Megs personal files. Yay you did the right thing!!! Oh so Keith was wrong about the guy? So Logan makes an appearance, right at the end So he's not a creepy guy! He's Wallace's dad. Not really that brilliant an episode. Worst of the season so far IMO. Nothing was explained about the situation with Dick, Beev, Kendall etc.
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Post by sunworshipper on Oct 21, 2005 19:04:32 GMT -5
I suspect that Alicia married some guy (Fennel) when she was pregnant by Nathan Wood, or when Wallace was very little. Keith was looking at two documents on his desk. The first was a birth certificate for Cherie Parker Saunders (birthday March 9) and the second (perhaps from 1986?) named Cherie Woods. Both listed her living in Chicago. I think this means that Alicia was married to the cop Nathan Woods. I think she divorced him, took Wallace to Cleveland, and then married Mr. Fennel and had Darrell.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 22, 2005 7:57:08 GMT -5
Excellent analysis, Spring! The idea that Meg might be or have been pregnant had escaped me. But then I'm pretty shallow. Thanks for the feedback, Sharky. I really appreciate knowing you read and enjoyed. Not sure about Meg being/having been pregnant, but I think it is a supportable theory. SOMETHING more than meets the eye is going on there. Also, can't believe your shallow. We all know that sharkies live in deep waters.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 22, 2005 7:58:36 GMT -5
I suspect that Alicia married some guy (Fennel) when she was pregnant by Nathan Wood, or when Wallace was very little. Keith was looking at two documents on his desk. The first was a birth certificate for Cherie Parker Saunders (birthday March 9) and the second (perhaps from 1986?) named Cherie Woods. Both listed her living in Chicago. I think this means that Alicia was married to the cop Nathan Woods. I think she divorced him, took Wallace to Cleveland, and then married Mr. Fennel and had Darrell. Thanks, sunworshipper. I didn't pay much attention to the documents, so thanks for sharing what you noticed. Your theory makes perfect sense.
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Post by zimshan on Oct 22, 2005 9:52:37 GMT -5
Why did I like it and others not so much? Maybe because I don't watch it as deeply or intensely or see so many details. (Like the color of Logan's shirt. And I'm just using that as a general example of stuff I personally miss. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch it like that. In fact, sometimes I think I'm not the best person to do reviews because I miss so many details. Other times, tho, I think maybe a more detached viewpoint (let's not say clueless) is good. It's just---I was watching their interaction and listening to the words and never even noticed the shirt.) Hehe. Well, I don't know about others, but I, myself, have a very strange obsession with the VM wardrobe. I stood in amazement of how nicely that department worked last year. Reusing clothes like normal people, Lg=green/orange/brown and Dun=blue/gray color schemes that were consistant all season long. I'm even more obsessive about Lg/green. Because, yes, I believe this kid should always wear green. So that blue thing? That was the one thing in the whole episode that made me jump out of my seat. Weird? Yea, I know... Oh, I wouldn't say I was horribly disappointed. Yea, my post was alittle reactionary, but basically, I saw this episode as what most people saw "Drink the Kool-Aid" as. A slump in the quality we're used to seeing, but one in which still far exceeds the average television episode.
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Post by Sue on Oct 22, 2005 10:10:41 GMT -5
Why did I like it and others not so much? Maybe because I don't watch it as deeply or intensely or see so many details. (Like the color of Logan's shirt. And I'm just using that as a general example of stuff I personally miss. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch it like that. In fact, sometimes I think I'm not the best person to do reviews because I miss so many details. Other times, tho, I think maybe a more detached viewpoint (let's not say clueless) is good. It's just---I was watching their interaction and listening to the words and never even noticed the shirt.) Hehe. Well, I don't know about others, but I, myself, have a very strange obsession with the VM wardrobe. I stood in amazement of how nicely that department worked last year. Reusing clothes like normal people, Lg=green/orange/brown and Dun=blue/gray color schemes that were consistant all season long. I'm even more obsessive about Lg/green. Because, yes, I believe this kid should always wear green. So that blue thing? That was the one thing in the whole episode that made me jump out of my seat. Weird? Yea, I know... Oh, I wouldn't say I was horribly disappointed. Yea, my post was alittle reactionary, but basically, I saw this episode as what most people saw "Drink the Kool-Aid" as. A slump in the quality we're used to seeing, but one in which still far exceeds the average television episode. Actually, I'd go delete that post if it hadn't already been replied to. It was written: a. when I was feeling lousy and therefore grumpy b. without really reading fully and carefully what others had written c. when (see "a" above) I was suffering from a small (and uncharacteristic) bout of "low-ego" due to thinking that everybody else sees all these tiny details that just slip right past me. but I hope to rewatch the ep sometime soon and respond in more depth to Spring's review AND to the other comments. Sharky----may I join you in the shallow end of the pool?
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Post by leftylady on Oct 22, 2005 15:28:40 GMT -5
Wow. Are you telling me no one was disappointed in this episode? I was sure I'd get on this board and on LJ and find tons of negativity. Go figure... I'm just going to cut-paste my initial reactions that I posted on my LJ, for the sake of rewriting basically everything over again. I wrote this right after watching last night, so it's a tad bit harsh. But I really did think this episode was one of the weaker, if not the weakest VM episode we've seen to date. Yes, those are fightin' words! And yes, I still have to rewatch before I can clearly state my opinion. But under first watch, in my eyes, this episode just did not stand up to the VM standards... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have one thing to say... WHAT THE FUCK WAS LOGAN DOING IN FUCKING BLUE!!! Yes, that was the most important thing I had to say about this episode. Yes, that was my WTF moment this week. Seriously, JD alone saved the episode from plummeting to its death. The script was just really bland, and, well, all over the place. There were way too many random little things going on. Scenes that didn't fit in the episode. I didn't see hardly any organization to it other than the heavy-handed jealousy theme. Marti Noxon, step away from the VM writers. Add in a newbie director who wasted WAY too much time on stupid things, letting the episode drag to immense proportions, and you have Shannon actually thinking that the sleep she lost to watch this wasn't worth it. That's serious. The whole time, I just felt like the episode was dragging. Immensely dragging. Sluggish even. Even out of the actors. Where was the energy this week? I love Alicia, but that storyline was so damn predictable. I was almost wishing for a Witness Protection Program storyline and I said last week that would be too predictable. And I loved the portrayal of the fractured, all not as perfect as it seems Dun/VM relationship, but ultimately, snoozeworthy. Nothing makes me happier than to see VM 2.0 making a comeback which was ultimately the purpose of this episode, but did we really need to go through all of that to get there? Case of the week? So very very sluggish. Really shouldn't have taken up so much time. The only scene worthy of a rewind was that little Logan scene. Without even trying, it was the best scene of the episode. All of a sudden , I was like, 'Look. Energy!' Line of the night, hands down, goes to Logan's "My day is complete! Veronica Mars has accused me of E-vil." Simple line, but priceless delivery. Second prize would have to go to Rico and his performance. He tried to do as much as he could with his lines… I guess the last five episodes have been so crazy and insane that I'm just spoiled. But I'm sure hoping this was just a little slump. Because I don't want to see this quality become the norm. Nope, not at all. I do need to rewatch, but I don't even have the energy to right now. I'm quite abit upset about how mundane this one was. I hope it can get better on rewatch, but I'm kind of worried to find out. Oh, well. Now I guess I can get some work done this week, since RT refrained from exploding it. I suppose that's a good thing for my GPA. What did I like? - MARS INVESTIGATIONS!! Pretty windows...although storing Keith's sheriff posters in there is just plain blasphemy! - Wallace all worried about Veronica inside Scottish guy's house? Aww. - Darryl's back! Ain't he cute? - The little throwaway line from 202, with the little detail of Logan's "Life Short" party ends up being important. I love when little things become important later on. - Mac back! And her new hairstyle? How adorable was that? Even if she was only on screen for like two seconds in one of the most random scenes of the night… - Lamb vs. Keith! Let the games begin! - Getting some backstory to understand Duncan's weird happiness. It was all a front. Kind of a theme in this show, eh? - Huge number of Season One references again! Inga, Vinny Van Lowe, Kane scholoarship, that Beaver-like clock pan-down, Lamb collecting the kegs. See, I told ya! Those writers are having a huge contest: Who can fit the most Season One references into one script! - I think it's sufficient to say that Veronica 2.0 is making a comeback! This week she was busy going behind Keith's back, annoyed at Duncan for his evasiveness, pessimistic on love, and finally, she's coming back to work! Woohoo! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, I wasn't disappointed in this episode. As you mentioned, losts of sly Season 1 references, and I'll add, lots of follow up on plotpoints on the various arcs from this year. True, some of it seemed a little puzzeling, Meg's sister and her scenes for instance, but I'm going to patiently wait to see how RT intends to pay this off. I have faith that he will and even if not everything ties together perfectly in the end, this is still a far better show than 99% of what's out there.
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Post by Sue on Oct 22, 2005 22:03:01 GMT -5
Aside from the blue shirt:
Where was Logan's necklace?
Have we seen other eps where he wasn't wearing it?
I don't recall any, but that means diddly squat.
But on catching the last few minutes of tonight's rerun (gotta remember that) I took note of the blue shirt, but all I could see was his naked throat.
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