|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 18:56:07 GMT -5
Some quick immediate noncoherent thoughts before I start reading other posts.....
*********
Excellent! Excellent! Now that's solid television! Oh! Awesome! They have rewon my faith.
EEEEEEEE! Now THAT'S MY SHOW! Solid clear through! Proof that you can do an amazingly solid, balance episode without crazy shocker moments and still have it be excellent. Seriously this was so good! I enjoyed the full hour, through and through. After last week's little dip, seeing this made me so happy!!! SEE THIS! THIS WAS DAMN GOOD TV! THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE!!
WALLLACE!!! I love you! Awww. Poor kid! Give this kid a hug. He needs it!
Oh my goodness! Logan and Duncan? Awww. They're so cute. Just so cute!!! Trying to mend fences and all. Just adorable! I love these two together so much I almost don't care how random it was done. And because I would wager that it won't last long but still…
Jackie and VM! D'oh!!
FREAKIN" AMAZING LAMB SCENES! Best scenes of the night, hands down!! Sheriff's got something cooking with Terrence and Woody, and it's not just as simple as VM thinks it is….
Just such an awesome episode to tide us over for an extra week.
More constructive thoughts to follow, once I can stop the random squeeing. *sighs* Oh, how I love my show… *********
;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:12:25 GMT -5
I loved the expressions on both Veronica and her dad when they listened to it. You could just see how sick it made them feel. Oh, I know. Such a powerful scene there. And then Rico with 'not going to use the death of seven kids to win an election' and the whole 'guilty party still at large'. Rico really outdid himself here. This episode, it really reminded me alot of the fifth episode last year, 'You Think You Know Somebody'. VM was dupped yes, but more so, there was that solid, tightness. I think most people underestimate just how great that episode was. Everything with Keith and Veronica dealing with Lianne. And it just really reminds me of this episode. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy or somthing....
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Oct 27, 2005 19:20:27 GMT -5
Concerning Keith pocketing the "Bug bug", I think he was protecting Veronica and himself and everyone in Neptune. If Keith truly believes (as do I) that the town needs him as sheriff, besides what it might have done to Veronica it would have sent his chances to win the election right over a cliff like a bus-full of high school students. *cough* Um. Nice analogy. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Oct 27, 2005 19:28:54 GMT -5
Great episode for the character interactions: Wallace/Mom, Wallace/V, Keith/Lamb, and on & on ... But.... i found some things puzzling. Maybe I was just tired. Did the credit card get stolen at all? Was this all part of the prank Jackie pulled on V? If so why the card being denied, and denied in plain sight for the tv audience? If not, then why did Jackie go back to the palm reader for the mamomax set up? What am I missing? Then there's the stack of letters: from what I could see on my screen, they were all to an address in Chicago, IL. Probably, Alicia's mom. Nathan said he did not know Alicia's whereabouts and her mom would not tell him. According to Wallace, the return to sender was in Alicia's handwriting. Did she stick around Chicago long enough for hand delivery of that thick stack of mail before moving to Cleveland? "Veronica Mars" is usually so good in setting up the plausability of the MOTW and the characters backstories that I'm a bit surprised at this confusion. By the end, I was just assuming the card was never stolen at all, but it is not exactly clear. I hadn't thought about the letters. I guess I could fanwank it by thinking that Alicia's mom sometimes sent them to her, perhaps because Alicia was reading them or using them in some way and then she'd write on them and send back to mom to return . . . but that is a tad overthought. I suppose it's easier to just think it's an oversight by the writers, eh?
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Oct 27, 2005 19:29:37 GMT -5
Some quick immediate noncoherent thoughts before I start reading other posts..... ********* Excellent! Excellent! Now that's solid television! Oh! Awesome! They have rewon my faith. EEEEEEEE! Now THAT'S MY SHOW! Solid clear through! Proof that you can do an amazingly solid, balance episode without crazy shocker moments and still have it be excellent. Seriously this was so good! I enjoyed the full hour, through and through. After last week's little dip, seeing this made me so happy!!! SEE THIS! THIS WAS DAMN GOOD TV! THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE!! WALLLACE!!! I love you! Awww. Poor kid! Give this kid a hug. He needs it! Oh my goodness! Logan and Duncan? Awww. They're so cute. Just so cute!!! Trying to mend fences and all. Just adorable! I love these two together so much I almost don't care how random it was done. And because I would wager that it won't last long but still… Jackie and VM! D'oh!! FREAKIN" AMAZING LAMB SCENES! Best scenes of the night, hands down!! Sheriff's got something cooking with Terrence and Woody, and it's not just as simple as VM thinks it is…. Just such an awesome episode to tide us over for an extra week. More constructive thoughts to follow, once I can stop the random squeeing. *sighs* Oh, how I love my show… ********* ;D ;D ;D ;D I join you in the random squeeing. ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:30:51 GMT -5
This episode showed us something very different from the norm. Wallace was always cute, funny, loyal and fundamentally decent. Just what Veronica - and thereby the show itself - needed. I might just be speaking for myself here, but whenever Wallace was in a scene, it was a refreshing respite from the layers of high emotion and mystery. No matter how ugly things got, Wallace didn't change. Tonight, his own pain went to the forefront for the first time...and it was severely jarring. From an acting perspective, this is also the first episode where RT asks Percy Daggs to bring a lot of intensity...and whoa, did he bring it. You have to be pretty damned good to hang with Kristen Bell in an emotional scene; up to now, Jason Dohring and Rico Colantoni were the only ones who have done it believably - and on an equal footing, IMO. Maybe I was just caught up in the shock at the raw emotion Wallace displayed when Veronica snarled at him to "pick a side," but...in that moment, Percy shifted into a gear I didn't realize he possessed. Talk about intensity... I'm about to watch it a 2nd time, which is when I generally analyze things more critically, so perhaps I'm overstating it...but I don't think so. Did you see Veronica's face when Wallace really started going off? Kristen Bell can give so much to her fellow actors just by her reactions. So far, that was one of the best-acted scenes of the year. Oh, I agree. Absolutely excellent job by Percy. Can't say I was surprised though. Not after his talent shining through in 'A Trip To The Dentist'. He got to show a good glimpse of his acting capabilites there. The surprise of how intense he could be, and how much a jarring affect things were when Wallace, happy, funny guy got serious. After that locker scene between him and VM? "Logan Echolls signed one of the absence slips." It was such a small line and yet wow. Ouch. That intensity there blew me away, and was so surprising to see out of him. So seeing this was delightful, just seeing how much RT was giving him to work with this year. He's willing to put alot on Percy's plate this year. And that? Makes me so happy. Because I gotta say, the rest of the cast members are great and all, but I love Percy...
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:38:28 GMT -5
Here is what Rob Thomas posted on TWOP last night after the episode: Hey gang, Just wanted to pass along a bit of behind the scenes info. I love our series regulars. I'd use each of them in every episode if I could. The fact is, they all have different episode contracts. I have to budget and spread them out. There are only three actors I'm able to use in every episode. As is my normal habit, I'm checking out the east coast reaction while I wait to watch the show here in L.A. Thanks for both the love and the papercuts. Rob Normal habit? I knew he read the TWOP boards periodically but after every ep? Oh, RT, bad idea. Get away, now...
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:45:12 GMT -5
If you could call what they were doing dancing. I got the impression that Jackie was high on whatever pills she had taken and that Logan was drunk and trying to keep her upright and off him. Notice his arms/hands - not around her, either one. Plus sitting there, picking at his jacket afterwards - Logan was wasted in my opinion, not falling down Russkie Business drunk but probably fortified himself before he went to the dance. I gotta watch again, but yes, I got the same impression. Not exactly what I would call dancing. Just a bit, ummm, strange?
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:50:04 GMT -5
I have a bad feeling we won't be seeing Wallace for a while. I want to be wrong, but they clearly set that up. It'll create more room to develop Jackie's character independently (which is clearly on the way), AND move Logan to center stage. RT might have the best problem a writer can have: too many great characters, too little screen-time to develop them all at once. OoO. I didn't even think about this before but yes, I think you might be right. Percy has what 19 or 18 episodes this season? So that would be quite a good way to keep him on the outs for a while. I am still abit worried at how many characters they have to work with this season. It's alot of juggling, and no matter how you slice or dice it, it does take away from the S1 regulars that we love so much. But, to sustain a mystery, it must be done...
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 19:53:51 GMT -5
Can I both pity and hate Jackie at the same time? She's a seriously messed-up, insecure and spoiled girl, but I have to hand it to her drug-addled brain...she had it dead-on at the end. Veronica would've been outraged and protective of Wallace either way, but Logan as the other guy surely cranked things up a few notches. There were...layers, and Jackie picked up on them immediately. That was very well done. Ah-ha! See! What did I tell y'all? Do I earn bragging rights on that one or what?
|
|
|
Post by zimshan on Oct 27, 2005 20:01:57 GMT -5
You know what I loved most about this episode? How well it depicted people who care deeply for one another, but don't always express that feeling properly. The best BTVS episodes did the same exact thing...showing us a character's inner words, then having them do a less-than stellar job with the outer actions. The best example is that (incredibly painful) argument toward the end; Wallace was being a little unfair with Veronica, but he would have no way of knowing it. She WAS a little short with him when they discussed it...but she wasn't necessarily wrong, either. Oh, you hit the nail right on the head! Very nice point!
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Oct 27, 2005 20:35:09 GMT -5
OK, I can believe that as a reason why Jackie was vulnerable. Mamm-o-max!? !? OMG, Veronica is still bugging people? And she's bugging the sheriff? So, Lamb is a blackmailer. Are we surprised? And Jackie's dad is in trouble. Well, that kinda explains some things. You have a message from the bus and you haven't told anyone? WTF!? What did you do with the message, V - did you send it to your phone (I hope). And was that gunfire or an explosion of some kind? "Apparently, the dead are looking out for the shallow." ;D Eeeeeep!!!! Lily?! Holy hell. You should have stayed away from her boyfriend. OK, how did psychic lady know V was gunning for her so she could prepare that little bombshell? I wouldn't be surprised if she knew about Veronica; I mean, she's kind of famous, right? Exactly. And something else occured to me--if Lily was genuinely mad at Veronica over Logan, why would she have helped keep Veronica from getting on the bus? 'Cause of the two "visitations," I definitely think of Veronica's sighting as the more genuine.
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Oct 27, 2005 21:34:05 GMT -5
Rob was very concerned that something terrible must have happened to me - after all, that seems to be the only thing that would end up with me not being here to gush over a new episode of VM. I hadn't posted because I was working on a pumpkin carving of Buffy last night and only had time to watch it once and my initial reactions are always jumbled and not well thought out. But, here I am with my thoughts, just for Rob (well, ok, for everyone): - Loved it! Love! It was hard to watch because I saw the Veronica set up coming a mile away and worried about what the psychic was going to say to Veronica.
- Veronica still makes it about her at the end. Girl needs to be shaken. I love Veronica but I was yelling at her when Duncan told her that Wallace would be fine and she listened to him. WTF? Then she says, "I can't lose another friend." Dude, Veronica. How about telling him you're worried about him and want to know if he's ok? How come it's got to be about you losing him? It's very much in character for her but I thought she was catching on earlier.
- I actually liked Duncan and Veronica together tonight! I reserve the right to change my mind about this every week as I see fit. - They were actually cute and maybe it's because, again, we only got small doses of them. Still, Duncan just accepting her request for the stationary? On the one hand, Veronica uses everyone equally so it's not a sign that she doesn't love you but, on the other, it just shows that Duncan doesn't know her very well anymore.
- Poor Wallace. I wanted to hug him. I wanted someone to hug him! I have a feeling he's going to be gone for a little while. Of course, this just means that Veronica will be on a mission to find him. Just as I start to like her and D together, I see the setup for something that has the power to drive them apart. (Well, that and all their other issues.) Dag nabbit!
- I actually defended Jackie last week! I still don't think she's the bitch that Veronica took her to be but she pissed me off tonight. No one messes with Veronica! Of course, I can't hate Jackie completely for what she did. She came clean to Wallace when he confronted her and Veronica hasn't exactly shown her the love so far. I kinda get why Jackie wanted to put Veronica in her place even if I don't approve. Plus, she called it at the dance even if I'm not sure she knew she was so right.
- Good for Keith on picking up on the bug immediately and taking it instead of ignoring what he knew was happening. I want him to confront Veronica, though. Alicia wasn't completely wrong in what she was saying to him and, if he doesn't say anything to V about the bug, that's a good example of how he's not always the best parent.
* Loved the continuity. People showing up all over the place. We can lay to rest the mystery about where Backup had gone. Plus, I love that the classes are mixed. I was getting a little kick out of the fact that Mandy was talking about Veronica finding her dog to Logan since that's one of the episodes where he was first connecting with V. And, Corny! I love Corny and bless him for nominating Veronica.
- Liked that Logan can insult Veronica but he got prickly when Jackie did it. He covered it with some flirting but I definitely felt like he was taking her down at first. It reminds me of my family. We can bad mouth each other all we want but the minute any significant others or spouses begin doing it, we get all protective.
- Have to mention the Faders. I'm a bit disappointed that that's how this song got used. It had such great potential for a fun scene so I was sad to see it was used to have a guest appearance. Plus, it felt weird that everyone is dancing all upbeat in that moment in the episode. Oh well.
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Oct 27, 2005 21:40:05 GMT -5
I've seen the episode a couple of times now. Still pretty devastating stuff at the end. An element to the kitchen argument that I missed the first time out; when Veronica opens the door, Wallace is holding his arms out to hug her...and she leaves him hanging. No wonder he was so hurt. I understand her anger - boy, DO I - but transferring blame to him was the worst possible thing to do. She follows this up by dropping an ultimatum ("pick a side" I believe it was...is it me, or does that sound vaguely Loganish?). Of course he's going to defend Jackie initially; it's in his makeup to believe only the best of people. Unfortunately that's the absolute last thing Veronica wanted to hear at that moment...and so the downward spiral begins. One other slightly less-depressing thought: Logan and Jackie had better be careful about making fun of Mandy. She'll taze their asses. Oh, and the worst thing of all: Jackie had her filthy, deceiving hands all over Backup!! Leave him out of your evil plans, witch! Actually, I took special note of how Backup was all into Jackie. Now, I don't agree with what Jackie did but where are all the people who kept telling Veronica to trust the dog in regards to Logan in last year's finale? Could Backup also be right about Jackie? That she's not necessarily the evil witch Veronica seems to believe. What she did was low but I can kinda see why she did it and, to be honest, Veronica proved she's not much better with what she was planning to do back...
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Oct 28, 2005 7:15:20 GMT -5
I've seen the episode a couple of times now. Still pretty devastating stuff at the end. An element to the kitchen argument that I missed the first time out; when Veronica opens the door, Wallace is holding his arms out to hug her...and she leaves him hanging. No wonder he was so hurt. I understand her anger - boy, DO I - but transferring blame to him was the worst possible thing to do. She follows this up by dropping an ultimatum ("pick a side" I believe it was...is it me, or does that sound vaguely Loganish?). Of course he's going to defend Jackie initially; it's in his makeup to believe only the best of people. Unfortunately that's the absolute last thing Veronica wanted to hear at that moment...and so the downward spiral begins. One other slightly less-depressing thought: Logan and Jackie had better be careful about making fun of Mandy. She'll taze their asses. Oh, and the worst thing of all: Jackie had her filthy, deceiving hands all over Backup!! Leave him out of your evil plans, witch! Actually, I took special note of how Backup was all into Jackie. Now, I don't agree with what Jackie did but where are all the people who kept telling Veronica to trust the dog in regards to Logan in last year's finale? Could Backup also be right about Jackie? That she's not necessarily the evil witch Veronica seems to believe. What she did was low but I can kinda see why she did it and, to be honest, Veronica proved she's not much better with what she was planning to do back... Oh interesting catch Rae. I did not notice that - I mean I saw her petting Backup during the show but I never made the Logan connection. I like this because I do think little things are important.
|
|