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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 7:15:42 GMT -5
This episode showed us something very different from the norm. Wallace was always cute, funny, loyal and fundamentally decent. Just what Veronica - and thereby the show itself - needed. I might just be speaking for myself here, but whenever Wallace was in a scene, it was a refreshing respite from the layers of high emotion and mystery. No matter how ugly things got, Wallace didn't change. Tonight, his own pain went to the forefront for the first time...and it was severely jarring. From an acting perspective, this is also the first episode where RT asks Percy Daggs to bring a lot of intensity...and whoa, did he bring it. You have to be pretty damned good to hang with Kristen Bell in an emotional scene; up to now, Jason Dohring and Rico Colantoni were the only ones who have done it believably - and on an equal footing, IMO. Maybe I was just caught up in the shock at the raw emotion Wallace displayed when Veronica snarled at him to "pick a side," but...in that moment, Percy shifted into a gear I didn't realize he possessed. Talk about intensity... I'm about to watch it a 2nd time, which is when I generally analyze things more critically, so perhaps I'm overstating it...but I don't think so. Did you see Veronica's face when Wallace really started going off? Kristen Bell can give so much to her fellow actors just by her reactions. So far, that was one of the best-acted scenes of the year. Oh, I agree. Absolutely excellent job by Percy. Can't say I was surprised though. Not after his talent shining through in 'A Trip To The Dentist'. He got to show a good glimpse of his acting capabilites there. The surprise of how intense he could be, and how much a jarring affect things were when Wallace, happy, funny guy got serious. After that locker scene between him and VM? "Logan Echolls signed one of the absence slips." It was such a small line and yet wow. Ouch. That intensity there blew me away, and was so surprising to see out of him. So seeing this was delightful, just seeing how much RT was giving him to work with this year. He's willing to put alot on Percy's plate this year. And that? Makes me so happy. Because I gotta say, the rest of the cast members are great and all, but I love Percy... **nods** And I love the way the writers and actors have been preparing us for a larger confrontation between Wallace and Veronica. Both by little moments of conflict like that and wonderful moments of friendship, like making cookies and helping your friend even when it means sacrificing time with your girlfriend. So we've seen how much they care about each other and also that they have issues that they have not really been dealing with. |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 7:17:51 GMT -5
Here is what Rob Thomas posted on TWOP last night after the episode: Hey gang, Just wanted to pass along a bit of behind the scenes info. I love our series regulars. I'd use each of them in every episode if I could. The fact is, they all have different episode contracts. I have to budget and spread them out. There are only three actors I'm able to use in every episode. As is my normal habit, I'm checking out the east coast reaction while I wait to watch the show here in L.A. Thanks for both the love and the papercuts. Rob  Normal habit? I knew he read the TWOP boards periodically but after every ep? Oh, RT, bad idea. Get away, now... #rofl1# And yet also, seriously, I can see how this has the potential for trouble. If, for examlpe, he gets so caught up in competing fan wants and desires and lets it get in the way of keeping to his own vision of the show.  |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 7:18:52 GMT -5
Can I both pity and hate Jackie at the same time? She's a seriously messed-up, insecure and spoiled girl, but I have to hand it to her drug-addled brain...she had it dead-on at the end. Veronica would've been outraged and protective of Wallace either way, but Logan as the other guy surely cranked things up a few notches. There were...layers, and Jackie picked up on them immediately. That was very well done. Ah-ha! See! What did I tell y'all? Do I earn bragging rights on that one or what?  **hands zimshan a bragging rights certificate** ;D |
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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 7:34:43 GMT -5
Rob was very concerned that something terrible must have happened to me - after all, that seems to be the only thing that would end up with me not being here to gush over a new episode of VM.  I hadn't posted because I was working on a pumpkin carving of Buffy last night and only had time to watch it once and my initial reactions are always jumbled and not well thought out. But, here I am with my thoughts, just for Rob (well, ok, for everyone): Well, I was wondering . . . .  Oh I am so there with you on that! Classic Veronica, even when it makes you want to smack her! [/li][li]I actually liked Duncan and Veronica together tonight! I reserve the right to change my mind about this every week as I see fit. - They were actually cute and maybe it's because, again, we only got small doses of them. Still, Duncan just accepting her request for the stationary? On the one hand, Veronica uses everyone equally so it's not a sign that she doesn't love you but, on the other, it just shows that Duncan doesn't know her very well anymore.[/quote] Interesting. I hadn't thought about how it indicated a gap in Duncan's understanding. I can really see how both of them, in trying to be "normal", are acting as if they could just go back to their previous relationship. But you can't just ingnore all the things that happened last year. Can't ignore the changes in Veronica's attitudes and feelings and the actual things that happened. Can't ignore what Duncan has been through either. Yet they seem to be trying to do so. [/li][li]Poor Wallace. I wanted to hug him. I wanted someone to hug him! I have a feeling he's going to be gone for a little while. Of course, this just means that Veronica will be on a mission to find him. Just as I start to like her and D together, I see the setup for something that has the power to drive them apart. (Well, that and all their other issues.) Dag nabbit! [/li][li]I actually defended Jackie last week! I still don't think she's the bitch that Veronica took her to be but she pissed me off tonight. No one messes with Veronica! Of course, I can't hate Jackie completely for what she did. She came clean to Wallace when he confronted her and Veronica hasn't exactly shown her the love so far. I kinda get why Jackie wanted to put Veronica in her place even if I don't approve. Plus, she called it at the dance even if I'm not sure she knew she was so right.[/quote] Hmmmmm. An "evil" character that really isn't evil but rather has many sides, is emotionally messed up, hurts others and is hurt by them, and is the one who tells the truths no one wants to hear. Sounds good to me. [/li][li]Good for Keith on picking up on the bug immediately and taking it instead of ignoring what he knew was happening. I want him to confront Veronica, though. Alicia wasn't completely wrong in what she was saying to him and, if he doesn't say anything to V about the bug, that's a good example of how he's not always the best parent.[/quote] I'm hoping we'll see him confront Veronica in another episode. We've seen that happen before. Both Keith and Alicia were sort of right with what they said about each other's choices as a parent. Of course, when they said it they were trying to hurt each other, but it doesn't completely invalidate their statements. [/li][li]Liked that Logan can insult Veronica but he got prickly when Jackie did it. He covered it with some flirting but I definitely felt like he was taking her down at first. It reminds me of my family. We can bad mouth each other all we want but the minute any significant others or spouses begin doing it, we get all protective.[/quote] And we saw a parallel situation with Wallace. Getting angry with Veronica and telling her not to do something bad to Jackie in relatiation, but then going and telling Jackie off for what she did. [/li][li]Have to mention the Faders. I'm a bit disappointed that that's how this song got used. It had such great potential for a fun scene so I was sad to see it was used to have a guest appearance. Plus, it felt weird that everyone is dancing all upbeat in that moment in the episode. Oh well.[/li][/ul][/quote] Contrast, perhaps? |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 28, 2005 14:42:10 GMT -5
Great episode for the character interactions: Wallace/Mom, Wallace/V, Keith/Lamb, and on & on ... But.... i found some things puzzling. Maybe I was just tired. Did the credit card get stolen at all? Was this all part of the prank Jackie pulled on V? If so why the card being denied, and denied in plain sight for the tv audience? If not, then why did Jackie go back to the palm reader for the mamomax set up? What am I missing? Then there's the stack of letters: from what I could see on my screen, they were all to an address in Chicago, IL. Probably, Alicia's mom. Nathan said he did not know Alicia's whereabouts and her mom would not tell him. According to Wallace, the return to sender was in Alicia's handwriting. Did she stick around Chicago long enough for hand delivery of that thick stack of mail before moving to Cleveland? "Veronica Mars" is usually so good in setting up the plausability of the MOTW and the characters backstories that I'm a bit surprised at this confusion. By the end, I was just assuming the card was never stolen at all, but it is not exactly clear. I hadn't thought about the letters. I guess I could fanwank it by thinking that Alicia's mom sometimes sent them to her, perhaps because Alicia was reading them or using them in some way and then she'd write on them and send back to mom to return . . . but that is a tad overthought. I suppose it's easier to just think it's an oversight by the writers, eh?  Thanks, Lola. Probably just an oversight. It just bugs me though when you get to the end of a mystery and the pieces doen't fit together as they should. But in the pressure to put out episodic tv somethings do just get lost in the shuffle. |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 28, 2005 14:47:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if she knew about Veronica; I mean, she's kind of famous, right? Exactly. And something else occured to me--if Lily was genuinely mad at Veronica over Logan, why would she have helped keep Veronica from getting on the bus? 'Cause of the two "visitations," I definitely think of Veronica's sighting as the more genuine. This "Lily's boyfriend" thing got me to thinking. Logan was Lily's boyfriend until the breakup. But.... we kept getting hints last year that Weevil was (or wasn't) also her boyfriend. So, if this wasn't just something put in the the psychic's background on V by Jackie (she did seem to be be getting a bit flirty in class with Logan), was this supposed to be a "real" message from Lily about staying away from Weevil? |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 28, 2005 14:55:58 GMT -5
Actually, I took special note of how Backup was all into Jackie. Now, I don't agree with what Jackie did but where are all the people who kept telling Veronica to trust the dog in regards to Logan in last year's finale? Could Backup also be right about Jackie? That she's not necessarily the evil witch Veronica seems to believe. What she did was low but I can kinda see why she did it and, to be honest, Veronica proved she's not much better with what she was planning to do back... Oh interesting catch Rae. I did not notice that - I mean I saw her petting Backup during the show but I never made the Logan connection. I like this because I do think little things are important. Well, then. Backup may be the sign that we should be giving Jackie a chance. If she's been added to the show to be a "girlfriend" for V now that Meg is out of the picture, she has to have some redeeming qualities or the audience is not going to buy the new buddy. By the way, the LJ by deathisyourart that was pointed out I believe by Fotada points out that the actress' credits are paired with a drawing of a pill bottle. Now we know why. More layers for the character. Well, if she is going to be a regular she needs more layers than just "bitchy to Veronica". |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 28, 2005 15:07:14 GMT -5
Some thoughts: Keith's encounter with a dui Doyle occurred in 1989. From a screen cap of Curley's record, he was arrested several times beginning in 1982 until 1986 when he was incarcerated for 3 years ( til 1989). Then he was off the books until 1997, with 2 more citations. What happened in between 1989 and 1997 for Curley? This quiet period is unusual for him. And any coincidence with the new tidbit about dui Doyle in 1989, just when Curley is back on the streets? I was at the library when I was writing this and about to be bumped from the terminal so I didn't get the chance to complete my thoughts on this. As I was pointing out Curley had an 8 year quiet period between citations from 1989 to 1997. Nothing on record from 1997 up to his seeming involvement in the bus crash and death in 2005. Another 8 year quiet period. They didn't just mention Curley had a record and an Aaron Echolls connection. They put this all on the screen. We should probably keep this in mind as the season unfolds to watch for anything else that crosses the timeline, whether or not it is obvious at first. |
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Post by Pixi on Oct 28, 2005 15:37:33 GMT -5
Exactly. And something else occured to me--if Lily was genuinely mad at Veronica over Logan, why would she have helped keep Veronica from getting on the bus? 'Cause of the two "visitations," I definitely think of Veronica's sighting as the more genuine. This "Lily's boyfriend" thing got me to thinking. Logan was Lily's boyfriend until the breakup. But.... we kept getting hints last year that Weevil was (or wasn't) also her boyfriend. So, if this wasn't just something put in the the psychic's background on V by Jackie (she did seem to be be getting a bit flirty in class with Logan), was this supposed to be a "real" message from Lily about staying away from Weevil? I must say - this is the most confusing thing about the episode to me. A poster over at TWOP has posted that according to the sides of that scene - he/she was given the impression that we were to infer that Jackie gave the psychic both bits of info - Lilly and Mammomax. Not an actual message from Lilly. But it still sounded confusing. So - was it an actual message from Lilly? Was it directed to Veronica about Logan or Weevil or some other heretofore undisclosed boyfriend? Color me confused. I think it works far better within the context of the story to have it be planted by Jackie especially given the dance confrontation. But if it is supposed to be actual Lilly commentary - we have been given lots of confusing tidbits about Weevil this year. So its a murky, muddle picture. Fun. ;D |
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Post by Michelle on Oct 28, 2005 16:14:29 GMT -5
By the way, the LJ by deathisyourart that was pointed out I believe by Fotada points out that the actress' credits are paired with a drawing of a pill bottle. Now we know why. More layers for the character. Well, if she is going to be a regular she needs more layers than just "bitchy to Veronica". No, Pixi found that great LJ post. Thanks, Pixi! I am still confused by this episode, maybe someone can explain this to me: We are shown Jackie's credit card being declined at a store, so we know that part of Jackie's story is true. Later, Jackie tells Veronica that someone stole her card and maxed it out. Veronica eventually believes that the psychic is to blame for this, but surprise! the psychic colluded with Jackie to set Veronica up. So, if Jackie was in cahoots with the psychic, it's doubtful the card was ever stolen at all. So, does that mean Jackie maxed out her own card, and just said someone else did it? |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 28, 2005 16:25:31 GMT -5
This "Lily's boyfriend" thing got me to thinking. Logan was Lily's boyfriend until the breakup. But.... we kept getting hints last year that Weevil was (or wasn't) also her boyfriend. So, if this wasn't just something put in the the psychic's background on V by Jackie (she did seem to be be getting a bit flirty in class with Logan), was this supposed to be a "real" message from Lily about staying away from Weevil? I must say - this is the most confusing thing about the episode to me. A poster over at TWOP has posted that according to the sides of that scene - he/she was given the impression that we were to infer that Jackie gave the psychic both bits of info - Lilly and Mammomax. Not an actual message from Lilly. But it still sounded confusing. So - was it an actual message from Lilly? Was it directed to Veronica about Logan or Weevil or some other heretofore undisclosed boyfriend? Color me confused. I think it works far better within the context of the story to have it be planted by Jackie especially given the dance confrontation. But if it is supposed to be actual Lilly commentary - we have been given lots of confusing tidbits about Weevil this year. So its a murky, muddle picture. Fun. ;D I've been thinking about the message from Lilly, and I think it's for real; the psychic wasn't given that information. Veronica missed getting on the bus because she saw Lilly, so maybe there's a touch of something supernatural going on this season. Nancy Drew meets Twin Peaks. Or I could be completely mistaken. The thing I liked best about this episode was the scene with Keith and Veronica, where he shows his high ethical standards by refusing to use the dead girl's message to win the election. Then Veronica decides not to use the CD she's gotten by bugging the sheriff's office, either. She's Keith's daughter, and it's nice to her following his good example. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 28, 2005 17:47:15 GMT -5
This "Lily's boyfriend" thing got me to thinking. Logan was Lily's boyfriend until the breakup. But.... we kept getting hints last year that Weevil was (or wasn't) also her boyfriend. So, if this wasn't just something put in the the psychic's background on V by Jackie (she did seem to be be getting a bit flirty in class with Logan), was this supposed to be a "real" message from Lily about staying away from Weevil? I must say - this is the most confusing thing about the episode to me. A poster over at TWOP has posted that according to the sides of that scene - he/she was given the impression that we were to infer that Jackie gave the psychic both bits of info - Lilly and Mammomax. Not an actual message from Lilly. But it still sounded confusing. So - was it an actual message from Lilly? Was it directed to Veronica about Logan or Weevil or some other heretofore undisclosed boyfriend? Color me confused. I think it works far better within the context of the story to have it be planted by Jackie especially given the dance confrontation. But if it is supposed to be actual Lilly commentary - we have been given lots of confusing tidbits about Weevil this year. So its a murky, muddle picture. Fun. ;D My take was that it was clearly phony, not a real contact from Lilly. The whole "don't mess with my boyfriend" message seemed like pure Jackie to me, despite her denials, (I can see where she wouldn't want to admit the "Lilly part" to Wallace.) Also, I don't the psychic could have been portrayed as more phony than she was. So - I can see where there's room for other interpretations, but my take was, and is, that the contact from Lilly was not at all "real." |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 28, 2005 17:51:06 GMT -5
By the way, the LJ by deathisyourart that was pointed out I believe by Fotada points out that the actress' credits are paired with a drawing of a pill bottle. Now we know why. More layers for the character. Well, if she is going to be a regular she needs more layers than just "bitchy to Veronica". No, Pixi found that great LJ post. Thanks, Pixi! I am still confused by this episode, maybe someone can explain this to me: We are shown Jackie's credit card being declined at a store, so we know that part of Jackie's story is true. Later, Jackie tells Veronica that someone stole her card and maxed it out. Veronica eventually believes that the psychic is to blame for this, but surprise! the psychic colluded with Jackie to set Veronica up. So, if Jackie was in cahoots with the psychic, it's doubtful the card was ever stolen at all. So, does that mean Jackie maxed out her own card, and just said someone else did it? Jackie's card got turned down, but we don't really know why; that can happen for a number of reasons. I'm thinking it was never maxed out (and certainly never stolen), but the "card turn down" gave Jackie an idea. She got the psychic to help her play a "joke on her friend," or something like that. She pointed out some charges to Veronica on her card statement, that she told Veronica were fraudulent. But I'm guessing that they were Jackie's charges - she deliberately bought a coat like Cora's, and bought those candles for the psychic, etc., to mislead Veronica. |
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Post by Sue on Oct 28, 2005 18:18:52 GMT -5
No, Pixi found that great LJ post. Thanks, Pixi! I am still confused by this episode, maybe someone can explain this to me: We are shown Jackie's credit card being declined at a store, so we know that part of Jackie's story is true. Later, Jackie tells Veronica that someone stole her card and maxed it out. Veronica eventually believes that the psychic is to blame for this, but surprise! the psychic colluded with Jackie to set Veronica up. So, if Jackie was in cahoots with the psychic, it's doubtful the card was ever stolen at all. So, does that mean Jackie maxed out her own card, and just said someone else did it? Jackie's card got turned down, but we don't really know why; that can happen for a number of reasons. I'm thinking it was never maxed out (and certainly never stolen), but the "card turn down" gave Jackie an idea. She got the psychic to help her play a "joke on her friend," or something like that. She pointed out some charges to Veronica on her card statement, that she told Veronica were fraudulent. But I'm guessing that they were Jackie's charges - she deliberately bought a coat like Cora's, and bought those candles for the psychic, etc., to mislead Veronica. agreeing. $1200 leather coat---that's gotta be something Jackie bought for herself. ============== I'm personally of the opinion that Jackie also mentioned Lilly to the psychic (and simply lied to Wallace) but if you want to play what if's try this one: Lilly's "boyfriend"----Aaron Echolls Lilly is trying to warn Veronica that he's dangerous (as if Veronica didn't already know) not warn her off. Not very likely, but ... hey it's Neptune. |
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Post by Sue on Oct 28, 2005 18:21:32 GMT -5
Oh, and the letters:
Nathan Wood mails them to Alicia's mother; mom forwards them (inside another envelope, presumably) to Alicia to give to Wallace which of course she does not do.
She simply writes "Return to Sender" on each envelope and drops them (one by one as they arrive) back in a mailbox.
Post office returns them to Nathan where he saves them up over the years, not taking Alicia's hint to stop writing.
It all hangs together quite simply, I think.
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