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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 19:15:02 GMT -5
By the way, the LJ by deathisyourart that was pointed out I believe by Fotada points out that the actress' credits are paired with a drawing of a pill bottle. Now we know why. More layers for the character. Well, if she is going to be a regular she needs more layers than just "bitchy to Veronica". No, Pixi found that great LJ post. Thanks, Pixi! I am still confused by this episode, maybe someone can explain this to me: We are shown Jackie's credit card being declined at a store, so we know that part of Jackie's story is true. Later, Jackie tells Veronica that someone stole her card and maxed it out. Veronica eventually believes that the psychic is to blame for this, but surprise! the psychic colluded with Jackie to set Veronica up. So, if Jackie was in cahoots with the psychic, it's doubtful the card was ever stolen at all. So, does that mean Jackie maxed out her own card, and just said someone else did it? I've been thinking about this since I first watched the ep and I have an idea. What if it was Jackie herself that ran the credit card debit up over the limit? So then, she invented the story of it being stolen not only as part of the plan to trick Veronica but also to cover her actions - maybe to tell this story to her dad as well. So he wouldn't blame her for overrunning her credit limit.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 28, 2005 19:17:07 GMT -5
I must say - this is the most confusing thing about the episode to me. A poster over at TWOP has posted that according to the sides of that scene - he/she was given the impression that we were to infer that Jackie gave the psychic both bits of info - Lilly and Mammomax. Not an actual message from Lilly. But it still sounded confusing. So - was it an actual message from Lilly? Was it directed to Veronica about Logan or Weevil or some other heretofore undisclosed boyfriend? Color me confused. I think it works far better within the context of the story to have it be planted by Jackie especially given the dance confrontation. But if it is supposed to be actual Lilly commentary - we have been given lots of confusing tidbits about Weevil this year. So its a murky, muddle picture. Fun. ;D I've been thinking about the message from Lilly, and I think it's for real; the psychic wasn't given that information. Veronica missed getting on the bus because she saw Lilly, so maybe there's a touch of something supernatural going on this season. Nancy Drew meets Twin Peaks. Or I could be completely mistaken. The thing I liked best about this episode was the scene with Keith and Veronica, where he shows his high ethical standards by refusing to use the dead girl's message to win the election. Then Veronica decides not to use the CD she's gotten by bugging the sheriff's office, either. She's Keith's daughter, and it's nice to her following his good example. Oooh, I hadn't thought of that parallel. You're right. Both Veronica and her dad sometimes make mistakes (Veronica more often, but then she's young), but they have that core of decency that always ends up shining through.
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Post by Michelle on Oct 29, 2005 13:12:45 GMT -5
No, Pixi found that great LJ post. Thanks, Pixi! I am still confused by this episode, maybe someone can explain this to me: We are shown Jackie's credit card being declined at a store, so we know that part of Jackie's story is true. Later, Jackie tells Veronica that someone stole her card and maxed it out. Veronica eventually believes that the psychic is to blame for this, but surprise! the psychic colluded with Jackie to set Veronica up. So, if Jackie was in cahoots with the psychic, it's doubtful the card was ever stolen at all. So, does that mean Jackie maxed out her own card, and just said someone else did it? I've been thinking about this since I first watched the ep and I have an idea. What if it was Jackie herself that ran the credit card debit up over the limit? So then, she invented the story of it being stolen not only as part of the plan to trick Veronica but also to cover her actions - maybe to tell this story to her dad as well. So he wouldn't blame her for overrunning her credit limit. Several good theories out there. I have thought about this a bit more, and I guessing that in order to get the psychic to play along with her joke, Jackie probably bought something for the psychic as a bribe, like say, the vanilla candles from Tricky Wicks. That killed two birds with one stone; it got the psychic to agree to punk Veronica, and it ensured that Veronica would come across something at the pychic's store to connect her with the credit card charges.
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Post by Karen on Oct 30, 2005 9:00:46 GMT -5
Sue!Excellent review! I agree with you that Jackie ran up the credit card debt all by herself. I think she has it in for her dad. She's seriously depressed. The message from Lily warning Veronica seemed to be an obvious plant at first. Your thinking that it could have actually came from Lily was good. Really - which boyfriend was she warning Veronica about? My guess would be Aaron - and I think Veronica should be careful about what she discovers about him in the future. I don't think we've seen the last of him. Thank you for doing the review. Especially like the character synopsis at the beginning. It helps me to keep everything in order. There's a lot of stuff.
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Post by LadyDi on Oct 30, 2005 11:43:10 GMT -5
Again, not much new to add, but I loved the confrontation between Wallace and Veronica. I found myself saying "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!" to RT for this. I am hoping that Veronica Mars turns out to be a little less All. About. Veronica than BtVS was All. About. Buffy.
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:06:33 GMT -5
SUE! EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT REVIEW! Definitely one of my favorites! I loved how you pulled together all the blasts of the past in the beginning. Yhew! This ep was bursting at the seams, eh? Is there a chance that this could be somehow connected with the nasty smell that Dick complained about? However, there is still no clue as to who was the intended target of the crash and whether that person was on or off the bus. Also wondering whether Veronica's comment to Keith regarding the abused election signs, "What's that smell?" is in any way a clue.OoO. Very interesting connection. Hmm. Now every time they ever mention a 'smell' for the rest of the season, I'm gonna be jumping up and down in my chair screaming 'ah-ha!' at the screen. Hard evidence is what detecting is all about. And we've got it coming at us right, left, and center. Questions are: who knows about it, and how should it be used, and does it actually prove anything? This episode has paper trails galore, electronic records, and even live human evidence.Whoa. Look at all those documents. Yes, we had all hard copy evidence. I can't help but think back to 2x02, 'Driver's Ed'. There, we had the same thing. The evidence left behind gave us answers. Specifically, notes hold answers. The letter Ed left on his laptop, the note the reporter left on Jackie's car. All leading to the words, 'Veronica Mars' scrolled on Curly's hand. I keep asking myself if that was an answer too? And if it was, what is it answering? I'm definitely going to be watching out for this to become a major theme this season. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if documents are the new videos of the season. And the look on Jackie's face when Miss Sophie tells her the card is maxed out---she's actually pleased about it. Yes! She was most definitely pleased. Like either the news prompted a great idea in her mind there, or she had been planning this out for a while and just had to wait until she completely maxed out her credit card before she put it into action. Gotta give the girl some props. That was quite an elaborate Veronica-style trick to pull. I was abit impressed she had it in her. Makes me go back to Episode 5 last year. Troy was the other person who had employed her on a phony mission. "How about you doing me a favor for once? Why does it have to be about you all the time? Jackie's right about one thing. It's your world, Veronica. I just live in it. Let it go. Don't do whatever you're planning to do. Have you been paying any attention lately? I just learned my whole life is a lie. My dad isn't my dad. I've always been a shoulder you could lean on. You've given me no time, no sympathy. Nothing."Poor boy. Veronica had been trying to help him all episode. Just she was putting her energy in the wrong place. Breaking a few kneecaps to get him nominated for Homecoming King. Helping out his girlfriend (who actually found out that Veronica was the person to ask for help, not from Wallace, but from Mandy, of all people. Veronica thought Wallace she was helping out Wallace in helping Jackie.) But in reality, all he really needed was a shoulder to lean on himself. Veronica is emotionally cutting herself off in more places then one, as we see here. And why she's with the King of the emotional cutting off marathon, Duncan Kane. Thought on D/V for a second: I found it really interesting that Duncan didn't even try to figure out why Veronica wanted that stationary. And Veronica knew he wouldn't ask, or even suspect she would be up to something. She knew she was being sneaky, and he wouldn't pick up on it at all. This isn't the first time we've seen Duncan doesn't understand VM 2.0, but it is the most blatant. Especially since we now know Veronica knows it too. No doubt in my mind as to who is going to win this confrontation. The only sad thing is that when the dust finally clears I don't think we're going to have Don Lamb to kick around anymore.Nooooo! But what will happen to Mars Investigations! I can't help but hope that Lamb will win this thing, because I want more Lamb, and I want to keep Keith in underdog position, and I want the pretty stained glass windows of MI. *crosses fingers reallly tight* I originally thought Jackie was lying to Wallace about not telling about Lilly. After three viewings I've changed my mind. I do believe Jackie---that she only clued Madame Sophie in about the Mammo-Max. Yes. That's still my thought. Just because she was so fast to tell it straight to Wallace. She really didn't try to lie to him about anything else. So I too think she was truthful on the Lilly front. I'm not sure it was exactly Lilly herself, but I do think somehow it could prove to be important. My mind went quickly to Lilly talking about Logan, but yes, she was with Aaron when she died. Although that thought about it talking about the events later in the episode is a great thought! I didn't put those two together but very interesting indeed. Nevertheless, it's definitely something that keeps us all on the edges of our seats. I'm loving all the bones they are throwing at us this year. Even if it does make my mind crazy. Seriously, this show must have the most active viewers in television! What show inspires the same viewer involvement like this one? Hmm. I wonder, is their anyway we could poll that, so there could be awards and such? Who could deny RT and Co that one? Hehehe...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:21:26 GMT -5
**nods** And I love the way the writers and actors have been preparing us for a larger confrontation between Wallace and Veronica. Both by little moments of conflict like that and wonderful moments of friendship, like making cookies and helping your friend even when it means sacrificing time with your girlfriend. So we've seen how much they care about each other and also that they have issues that they have not really been dealing with. Oh! Snickerdoodles... *sniffle* I think I've realized this is the one relationship that I care about above all else in this show. (not including Keith/Veronica of course ) We've been given so many great moments between these two all last season, and the beginning of this season, but it really takes an episode like this to realize just how incredibly emotionally attached I was to their relationship. Come back WALLACE!!
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:25:40 GMT -5
And yet also, seriously, I can see how this has the potential for trouble. If, for examlpe, he gets so caught up in competing fan wants and desires and lets it get in the way of keeping to his own vision of the show. Exactly what makes me so worried. Especially now that there's a good number over there that are reverting to their TWOPness and ripping the show to threads. In fact, I'm now hearing that not only does RT look at the boards, so does the network! I really don't know if I want them being the end all voice of the show's viewers. *gulp*
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:28:53 GMT -5
Ah-ha! See! What did I tell y'all? Do I earn bragging rights on that one or what? **hands zimshan a bragging rights certificate** ;D OoO! Pretty! *hangs certificate on wall* ;D
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:37:12 GMT -5
This "Lily's boyfriend" thing got me to thinking. Logan was Lily's boyfriend until the breakup. But.... we kept getting hints last year that Weevil was (or wasn't) also her boyfriend. So, if this wasn't just something put in the the psychic's background on V by Jackie (she did seem to be be getting a bit flirty in class with Logan), was this supposed to be a "real" message from Lily about staying away from Weevil? Well, Sue already kind of said it in her review, but I can't help but think there are three options of which boyfriend she could have meant. Logan, Weevil, and Aaron. With Aaron being on the top of the list because he was the only one that wasn't Lilly's ex when she died. Technically, she had broken it off with both Weevil and Logan before Oct. 13th. (Re: 1x12)
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:44:03 GMT -5
My take was that it was clearly phony, not a real contact from Lilly. The whole "don't mess with my boyfriend" message seemed like pure Jackie to me, despite her denials, (I can see where she wouldn't want to admit the "Lilly part" to Wallace.) Also, I don't the psychic could have been portrayed as more phony than she was. So - I can see where there's room for other interpretations, but my take was, and is, that the contact from Lilly was not at all "real." While I really don't think they would quite go there and make it really from Lilly, I can't help but think that someone else planted that there. Someone who was not Jackie, who had a reason for the psychic saying exactly what she said. Either the psychic herself or someone else that works for here, or even someone on the outside. It was just alittle too pointed and seemed alittle too ominous for the fake psychic that was all about giving happy satisfying thoughts to her customers...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 30, 2005 13:46:13 GMT -5
Oh, and the letters: Nathan Wood mails them to Alicia's mother; mom forwards them (inside another envelope, presumably) to Alicia to give to Wallace which of course she does not do. She simply writes "Return to Sender" on each envelope and drops them (one by one as they arrive) back in a mailbox. Post office returns them to Nathan where he saves them up over the years, not taking Alicia's hint to stop writing. It all hangs together quite simply, I think. Oh! Very nicely put together Sue! Very nice indeed!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2005 14:58:47 GMT -5
Most excellent analysis, Sue! I really think you've honed in on some themes we should be watching carefully if we want to solve this year's mystery. I'm so glad you did the summary of each character's "past" - it really helped me sort them all out. Not to mention, I think there may well be clues in there. Not just in the idea of secrets from the past but in the actual pasts we're learning about. Loved this line: What a perfect way to point us back to the episode title. Again, I have to think they are linking the explosions on the bus to the idea of something in one's past having consequences for a reason. It's a clue to the bus. It's a clue bus! Documents, confusing and misleading paper trails - fits right in with my ongoing belief that we are looking at collusion and conspiracy this year. You have a gift for picking out the key issues. For example, in your description of the different relationship explosions: Keith and Alicia's slams at each other's parenting is gonna be the real hurdle to get over; the speech of Wallace that you quoted is the ultimate summary of the biggest problem he and Veronica have; pointing out Jackie's essential loneliness; etc. again, Sue for this analysis! Oh, and I want to live in a Presidential hotel suite with 24-hour room service, too!! ;D
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 16:06:42 GMT -5
Sue!Excellent review! I agree with you that Jackie ran up the credit card debt all by herself. I think she has it in for her dad. She's seriously depressed. The message from Lily warning Veronica seemed to be an obvious plant at first. Your thinking that it could have actually came from Lily was good. Really - which boyfriend was she warning Veronica about? My guess would be Aaron - and I think Veronica should be careful about what she discovers about him in the future. I don't think we've seen the last of him. Thank you for doing the review. Especially like the character synopsis at the beginning. It helps me to keep everything in order. There's a lot of stuff. I really really do the reviews for my own fun, and hopefully as a "service" to the S3, but y'all (that's a plural y'all for them what can't tell) are going to turn me into a feedback whore. Thanks, Karen, I really appreciate the appreciation! I'm thinking about how we need a thread somewhere to try (although probably a losing a effort) to keep track of all the clues, and possible clues, motives, maybe motives, connections, possible foreshadowings, recurring themes, etc. It's a bit overwhelming!
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 16:08:10 GMT -5
Again, not much new to add, but I loved the confrontation between Wallace and Veronica. I found myself saying "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!" to RT for this. I am hoping that Veronica Mars turns out to be a little less All. About. Veronica than BtVS was All. About. Buffy. Hey Diana, I gather you don't usually get to see the ep until Saturday? Thanks for coming by and saying hi and putting in your 2 cents at any time. It's always good to see that you've been here.
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