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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 16:31:33 GMT -5
Wow, zimsham---that's quite a response! Practically a review of the review. I really appreciate the time and thought you put into it. SUE! EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT REVIEW! Definitely one of my favorites! I loved how you pulled together all the blasts of the past in the beginning. Yhew! This ep was bursting at the seams, eh? OoO. Very interesting connection. Hmm. Now every time they ever mention a 'smell' for the rest of the season, I'm gonna be jumping up and down in my chair screaming 'ah-ha!' at the screen. Well, this seems like a long shot to me, but I'd just read something about Dick's smell comment and it sort of jumped out at me. I mean, I sometimes wonder if there are any lines or scenes which are just "filler"? Really, commenting on Lamb tossing the signs in the dumpster didn't directly relate to anything so was it a "throwaway" line---simple reinforcing what a low-life Lamb is or are we to read something into either a) the "smell" reference; or b) her comment about tossing stuff into the dumpster behind the sherrif's office? Hmm. My take on that scene was the Duncan is not stupid and most likely knew Veronica wanted it for some sleuthy purpose---but didn't care. He trusts her, or at least wants to indulge her and it was a simple enough request. Those of us who are older realize that this is a real weakness in their relationship---he really displays very little interest in what is going on in her world AND even when he ventures a mild question----she shuts him out. I mean, if she's not confiding in her Dad, or Wallace---she sure as heck ain't gonna confide in Duncan! [Not that I mean to compare them........but......Logan, on the other hand, would have asked her why, she might actually have told him 'cause he would have sooooo appreciated both bugging Lamb and pulling the wool over his eyes! Well, after his comments about getting to know all the movers and shakers it sounded like Cook wasn't the only guy he might have nefarious ties to. Can't help but wonder if Lamb is going to be smack dab in the middle of this year's conspiracy. Maybe that explains why Woody is backing Keith? It'd be easier to "deal with" Lamb if he's out of office? And, having written that I'll immediately reverse my position cause even tho he seems to be a jerk sometimes it's hard to imagine him turning a blind eye to the murder of 6 students and a teacher. Still, he was awfully cold to V when she went to him about her rape. And cold-blooded blackmail.... And---maybe he closed the bus investigation prematurely because he knows more about it than he's letting on. He's not a nice man. There will have to be a significant turn around to redeem his character. See, the problem with the Emmys is that they are too specialized: "Best Actor" "Best Director" "Best Writing" And the last 2 are only given based on one specific episode. Where is the Emmy for "Best Overall Storytelling All Season Long"? I guess "Best Drama" is the category---but what show on UPN, categorized as a "teen drama" about a high school girl solving mysteries has a chance to even be nominated in that category? I'm afraid the best we can hope for is all of the Critics' "Best Overlooked Show" articles. Sigh.
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 16:32:49 GMT -5
And yet also, seriously, I can see how this has the potential for trouble. If, for examlpe, he gets so caught up in competing fan wants and desires and lets it get in the way of keeping to his own vision of the show. Exactly what makes me so worried. Especially now that there's a good number over there that are reverting to their TWOPness and ripping the show to threads. In fact, I'm now hearing that not only does RT look at the boards, so does the network! I really don't know if I want them being the end all voice of the show's viewers. *gulp* Well, just MAYBE he would follow a link from TWoP to us and see more favorable (and intelligent) comments!
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 16:42:07 GMT -5
Most excellent analysis, Sue! I really think you've honed in on some themes we should be watching carefully if we want to solve this year's mystery. I'm so glad you did the summary of each character's "past" - it really helped me sort them all out. Not to mention, I think there may well be clues in there. Not just in the idea of secrets from the past but in the actual pasts we're learning about. Loved this line: What a perfect way to point us back to the episode title. Again, I have to think they are linking the explosions on the bus to the idea of something in one's past having consequences for a reason. It's a clue to the bus. It's a clue bus! Documents, confusing and misleading paper trails - fits right in with my ongoing belief that we are looking at collusion and conspiracy this year. You have a gift for picking out the key issues. For example, in your description of the different relationship explosions: Keith and Alicia's slams at each other's parenting is gonna be the real hurdle to get over; the speech of Wallace that you quoted is the ultimate summary of the biggest problem he and Veronica have; pointing out Jackie's essential loneliness; etc. again, Sue for this analysis! Oh, and I want to live in a Presidential hotel suite with 24-hour room service, too!! ;D Altho, I suppose living at the Echolls estate, presumably with a maid, cook, yard-boy, pool-boy, etc. would also work....... Two 18 year old good looking male emancipated minors in the same town. What are the odds? And both throwing parties---go figure. (In fact, timeline wise I found it odd that Veronica was both at home and awake when her dad came in from looking for Wallace---weren't she and Duncan going to have a party back at his room after the dance?) As for the relationships. Soon after I sent the review in I was regretting not saying more about the issue of Friendship: Duncan and Logan attempting to renew their friendship. Veronica and Wallace's friendship being severly tested and strained. Her wanting to be a good friend to him, but not really sure how best to go about it. (Not much of a listener is Veronica? She wants to jump in and fix something.) Jackie not having any friends. Well, she said Cora was a friend, but was willing to sic Veronica on her. What if Veronica had jumped to conclusions and accused her? It would have suited Jackie's purpose of embarrassing Veronica, but would have hurt Cora as well. Does Jackie even know about Cora's job? I'm thinking theirs is a very superficial friendship. On the other hand, Wallace is offering Jackie friendship, as well as boyfriendship. She just can't recognize it.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 30, 2005 17:24:07 GMT -5
Sue:
Definitely agree with you on the “past catching up to you” theme for all our major characters.
On the match-ups, I especially like what you wrote about Veronica and Wallace, and I think you are right that it will work out in the end. It’s a good wake-up call for Veronica though, because she was taking Wallace for granted.
The “message from Lilly”: I think it could legitimately be looked at either way, but my take is fake. Ultimately, I have this feeling it won’t make any difference whether the message was “really from Lilly” or not.
Thanks for the good read, partner! Next week we get a breather
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Post by Michelle on Oct 30, 2005 18:28:29 GMT -5
Sue, great review!! Lots of things to absorb! I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate S3. It's a place chock full of intelligent, thoughtful people who happen to share my love of Buffy and Veronica Mars. That is a very rare and precious thing, I've discovered.
OK, enough gushing.
Would the fact that Veronica didn't get enough votes to be considered for Homecoming Queen be considered foreshadowing for Keith's upcoming election? Hmmm...
And, here is the 12 year old in me coming out. Did anyone else notice that during the Lamb/Mars debate, if you glanced really quickly at the sign on the lectern, LAMB looks more like LAME? Hee, hee.
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 18:58:08 GMT -5
Sue: Definitely agree with you on the “past catching up to you” theme for all our major characters. On the match-ups, I especially like what you wrote about Veronica and Wallace, and I think you are right that it will work out in the end. It’s a good wake-up call for Veronica though, because she was taking Wallace for granted. The “message from Lilly”: I think it could legitimately be looked at either way, but my take is fake. Ultimately, I have this feeling it won’t make any difference whether the message was “really from Lilly” or not. Thanks for the good read, partner! Next week we get a breather I think you are right, that it's not going to matter whether the message was fake or not---for one thing it's clear that there is no telling which boyfriend was being referenced. But, given that we've already seen either a ghost of Lilly or some sort of vision, I'm not ready to call a message thru a medium necessarily a fake. I favor the the interpretation that Lilly was trying to warn her to stay away from Logan, but when she didn't it resulted in Wallace leaving. I'm not sure Aaron qualified as a "boyfriend" -- more of a secret, illicit, too old lover turned murderer. And as for Weevil. First, Veronica doesn't really tend to be "with" Weevil and I'm still unclear as to exactly what was going on between Lilly and Weevil. Enjoy the break. Looks like I may only have one review during all of November! And Jim has very nicely decided to travel that week.
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Post by Sue on Oct 30, 2005 19:02:24 GMT -5
Sue, great review!! Lots of things to absorb! I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate S3. It's a place chock full of intelligent, thoughtful people who happen to share my love of Buffy and Veronica Mars. That is a very rare and precious thing, I've discovered. OK, enough gushing. Would the fact that Veronica didn't get enough votes to be considered for Homecoming Queen be considered foreshadowing for Keith's upcoming election? Hmmm... And, here is the 12 year old in me coming out. Did anyone else notice that during the Lamb/Mars debate, if you glanced really quickly at the sign on the lectern, LAMB looks more like LAME? Hee, hee. Well, the appreciation is mutual. Of course, since you are part of S3, you are also appreciating yourself. Which is something we are all very good at here----appreciating ourselves, and S3. We can be very gushy! I hadn't thought about the Homecoming election being connected at all to the Sheriff's election. I certainly don't think Keith winning is a safe assumption in the Mars-verse. Great anti-poster: "LAMB is LAME." Although, last season I sort of dismissed him as incompetent, but not a real threat to anyone. I'm re-evaluating that opinion.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 31, 2005 8:28:36 GMT -5
Sue, great review!! Lots of things to absorb! I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate S3. It's a place chock full of intelligent, thoughtful people who happen to share my love of Buffy and Veronica Mars. That is a very rare and precious thing, I've discovered. OK, enough gushing. Would the fact that Veronica didn't get enough votes to be considered for Homecoming Queen be considered foreshadowing for Keith's upcoming election? Hmmm... And, here is the 12 year old in me coming out. Did anyone else notice that during the Lamb/Mars debate, if you glanced really quickly at the sign on the lectern, LAMB looks more like LAME? Hee, hee. Oooooh, interesting idea about the election . . . Because I can't help thinking the election is not gonna be any kind of easy win, or even necessarily win at all for Keith. Just because he's the better at the job doesn't mean he's gonna get it - Lamb has lot's of connections and influence. **giggles and joins you in the 12 year old corner**
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Post by Pixi on Nov 1, 2005 11:25:50 GMT -5
I'm cruising in late here but I must join the throng of admiring fans and say bravo #clap# great job Sue. You and Spring have just seemed to be spot on this year with extremely astute analysis that are fascinating reads.
I don't have the review in front of me to quote from but I just wanted to also say great job with the analysis of everyone's past. I just love the way RT and the writers layer everything from the title, to interlocking themes that also correspond to the seasonal theme, to little tidbits thrown in here and there that fit - like that tiny puzzle piece that is all brown and could fit anywhere on the brown section but after looking at it backwards, sideways and upside down - it could only go there. It seems to me that information we are shown - while it could fit in so many places during an episode - end up fitting into the seasonal arc at just the place it was supposed too.
Also enjoyed looking at all the evidence again. There really was a preponderance of documents and evidence everywhere. I honestly think Lamb is going to lose the election because - first I think structure wise they need to keep Keith in Mars Investigations and Lamb has become an increasing fan favorite. Good catch on Veronica's not getting enough votes to make the Homecoming court foreshadowing Keith's election.
Plus the debate with the old patrol logs, the blackmailing Lamb - I just wonder what adding Woody into the mix is going to do. He seems so blatently dirty at this point - maybe some of this will rub off onto Keith's election run and hurt him.
I repeat again - my favorite line - Veronica saying to Duncan "You're only here for the pretty" and wholeheartedly agree with who posted that Veronica realizes Duncan is a tool and not very astute here. I mean come on - who else requests an orchid, limo and some of your father's stationary for Homecoming?
Anyway - terrific review Sue. I enjoyed it immensely.
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Post by Sue on Nov 3, 2005 12:56:14 GMT -5
I'm cruising in late here but I must join the throng of admiring fans and say bravo great job Sue. You and Spring have just seemed to be spot on this year with extremely astute analysis that are fascinating reads. I don't have the review in front of me to quote from but I just wanted to also say great job with the analysis of everyone's past. I just love the way RT and the writers layer everything from the title, to interlocking themes that also correspond to the seasonal theme, to little tidbits thrown in here and there that fit - like that tiny puzzle piece that is all brown and could fit anywhere on the brown section but after looking at it backwards, sideways and upside down - it could only go there. It seems to me that information we are shown - while it could fit in so many places during an episode - end up fitting into the seasonal arc at just the place it was supposed too. Also enjoyed looking at all the evidence again. There really was a preponderance of documents and evidence everywhere. I honestly think Lamb is going to lose the election because - first I think structure wise they need to keep Keith in Mars Investigations and Lamb has become an increasing fan favorite. Good catch on Veronica's not getting enough votes to make the Homecoming court foreshadowing Keith's election. Plus the debate with the old patrol logs, the blackmailing Lamb - I just wonder what adding Woody into the mix is going to do. He seems so blatently dirty at this point - maybe some of this will rub off onto Keith's election run and hurt him. I repeat again - my favorite line - Veronica saying to Duncan "You're only here for the pretty" and wholeheartedly agree with who posted that Veronica realizes Duncan is a tool and not very astute here. I mean come on - who else requests an orchid, limo and some of your father's stationary for Homecoming?Anyway - terrific review Sue. I enjoyed it immensely. Pixi-- Thanks for the nice words and feedback. I especially agree with the part in red. The fabric of episodes and information is so incredibly tightly woven it's just amazing. As to the part in green, well, that wasn't me, that was Fotada's thought.
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Post by LadyDi on Nov 4, 2005 12:52:20 GMT -5
Again, not much new to add, but I loved the confrontation between Wallace and Veronica. I found myself saying "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!" to RT for this. I am hoping that Veronica Mars turns out to be a little less All. About. Veronica than BtVS was All. About. Buffy. Hey Diana, I gather you don't usually get to see the ep until Saturday? Thanks for coming by and saying hi and putting in your 2 cents at any time. It's always good to see that you've been here. I'm usually watching Lost while taping VM. Then I watch Invasionafter Lost. I really need to look into this newfangled Tivo thing.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Nov 4, 2005 14:07:53 GMT -5
Here is what Rob Thomas posted on TWOP last night after the episode: Hey gang, Just wanted to pass along a bit of behind the scenes info. I love our series regulars. I'd use each of them in every episode if I could. The fact is, they all have different episode contracts. I have to budget and spread them out. There are only three actors I'm able to use in every episode. As is my normal habit, I'm checking out the east coast reaction while I wait to watch the show here in L.A. Thanks for both the love and the papercuts. Rob Which 3? Veronica, Keith and who?
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Nov 4, 2005 14:08:20 GMT -5
Veronica Mars 2x05 __________________ Poor Wallace. Hope the Dick/Beev situation from the end of episode 3 gets explained. Wallace has a good voice Logan and Duncan making friends¬! aaahh Lamb punk'd Keith. Oh a big Baseball betting controversy! Veronica got punk'd by Jackie! That's so mean. Yay Wallace for shouting at Jackie and yay for shouting at Veronice. Gotta love the W-Man. Veronica turned down the CD. Good for her. Logan kissing Jackie, nooo. So Wallace is running away with his dad! Still no explanation to the Dick/Beev situation.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 4, 2005 16:55:34 GMT -5
Here is what Rob Thomas posted on TWOP last night after the episode: Hey gang, Just wanted to pass along a bit of behind the scenes info. I love our series regulars. I'd use each of them in every episode if I could. The fact is, they all have different episode contracts. I have to budget and spread them out. There are only three actors I'm able to use in every episode. As is my normal habit, I'm checking out the east coast reaction while I wait to watch the show here in L.A. Thanks for both the love and the papercuts. Rob Which 3? Veronica, Keith and who? Logan.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Nov 5, 2005 17:12:14 GMT -5
Obviously I know why Veronica got the better conract, it's her show! So why the others? I can only guess that Keith got his because a lot of the plots run around him as well. Did Logan have the same kinda contract in season 1 because I could of swore he missed an episode or two. It pains me to think we'll see less Wallace because of new characters who need to be developed. I know new characters keep the show exciting but I like Wallace.
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