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Post by Anne B on Apr 22, 2006 12:57:48 GMT -5
Pretty good episode except,I agree, for the Wallace/Jackie stuff.Cheesy as Hell! Nothing to add to the previous posts.Great analyzis of the show all around.
At least,Logan was happy and funny in this one.Breath of fresh air because the lost puppy look/attitude is getting old. I hope he's going to get a break from the martyr Logan storyline.
Can I add that for two years now we're hammered with Logan's unhappy because he's bad and bad because he's unhappy and noone loves him? I get it,thanks! Childhood trauma? Bad Karma? Unrequited love? Get over it,boy! And,please,change your behavior! If I get it,he should too,right? He should take example on Weevil.The boy cut all rotten ties with his old life and it's a good thing.I liked how he left the PChers in the dust. These guys are pathetic! Um...Anyway, Aaron's trial is going to be a piece of cake for his lawyer.
Lawyer: Do you think my client would bring his own Oscar to kill Lilly Kane? Come on! How stupid! Someone was ,very clumsily,trying to frame him. And we all know who it is.Duncan Kane.
Then yadda yadda...Hair,History of violence,Kidnapping,... Duncan 's perfect .He can't even defend himself. Aaron never acknowledged he killed Lilly.Reasonnable doubt. Noone in the jury can convict him of murder.
And his fight with Veronica and Keith...Well,if his lawyer can put the seeds of doubt in the jury that Veronica is Duncan's accomplice,then Aaron can get away with self-defense,IMHO. Reasonable doubt there again. Logan stupidly burnt the tapes,so...
US laws say that noone's guilty if there's a reasonable doubt.
Very different from my country where you need to give proofs of your innocence.The jury is the only judge and if they JUST think you're guilty...Jailtime!
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Post by LadyDi on Apr 22, 2006 20:19:16 GMT -5
Whew!
No deep thoughts to add, except...snakes. Snakes and the Irish. St. Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland. Dunno if it's at all relevant. Just, snakes and the Fitzpatricks.
I love this show. Bad guy Liam wearing a claddagh ring. Coincidence?
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Post by KMInfinity on Apr 22, 2006 20:29:51 GMT -5
First, I think my head's going to explode while watching the episode and connecting the (in retrospect) few dots I see. Then later, I rewatch the episode and there's more head exploding as I catch things I missed the first time. Then, I come here and read all the terrific posts, and I realize I'd barely scratched the surface and the exploding head syndrome resurfaces. I'm thinking I should just not watch VM while it airs and wait for the DVD. Then I can see the whole thing in a shorter span of time, and maybe more of it will connect better and my head won't explode that much. Except I don't think I'd have the self control, and this is so much fun.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 21:46:15 GMT -5
Hey everyone! <snipped for space> I literally have a whole half a page of notes from me pausing after every line of dialogue, completely freaking out. It’s one of my top five TV freakout moments which as it turns out...was for no reason, but it reveals just how much love I have for Mr. Mars. First I realized Keith was in the same house that some guy had just taken a gun into. THEN we find out it was LIAM, the scariest motherfucker ever to grace this show, whose mere presence spells death about as much as the grim reaper himself, and I freaked out! Sing it sister! Liam scares the hell out of me. Scary as Aaron trying to set Veronica on fire. Seriously disturbing moment. And the sudden stillness and look on Keith's face told us just how much it affected him. **nods** Makes me wonder if they're deliberately drawing a comparison between Liam and Aaron. And there's Kendall, connecting the two in another way. From the moment he grabbed Veronica and just slammed her onto that pool table, I've been totally convinced by the bone-deep creepiness and serious violence of Liam. He's one crazy mo-fo! So totally glad to see the intelligence that we've seen glimspes of in Kendall turn out not to be a fluke. That moment at the end, where she talks to Liam after Keith and Veronica have escaped? Tells us a lot about her. ;D Some kind of con was in the works, oh yeah! Oh, yeah! I mean, these could have come off very **thud thud, hammer home the meaning with a sledgehammer**, but they didn't. We get the points and the double meanings, but done so nicely. I've been wondering if she really never meant this theory at all. I mean, just coming out with it so straightforwardly to him? I wonder if it was all a set up to needle him about Thumper . . . **nods very enthusiastically** Each of these individual actions, done by different people for their own reasons, all coming home to roost in ways they could never have imagined and would never have wanted. Just. So. Perfect. Well, I don't think I have the whole thing sussed out . . . just vague impressions and vibes, so you're doing better than me . . . but I am sooo there with you on Big Dick knowing ALL about Kendall. Knowing all about Kendall and Logan as well, I'm betting - possibly even setting it up or at least helping it along. That idea of Big Dick knowing all about the two of them has been in my mind since it first began. We definitely need to be listening to that line "is any of this relevant". It's a key question. Gotta love the Mac. So excellent in this ep. So excellent!! Must be part of the gang next year - I decree it! This is what I'm sayin'! No need for Wallace to worry, I don't really see her getting away to Paris. Not unless there's all sorts of Sorbonne scholarships being handed out that I don't know about. ;D ;D So many good lines in this one! And I am soooo looking forward to the trip! ;D
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 21:49:43 GMT -5
Nothing really intelligent to add right now that hasn't already been said. I liked the episode, I will say that. I may have more thoughts on the re-watch. But I think before I watch it again, I'll take in a double feature: The Grifters and Body Heat. I was strongly reminded of both movies as I watched this episode, as it touched on themes of identity switching, long cons and femme fatales. Was anybody else reminded of them? Definitely the Grifters. And I'm also tempted to watch some old noir movies from the 40's-50's. Maybe "This Gun for Hire" or "Double Indemnity".
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 21:55:23 GMT -5
Lots of stuff in this episode. Plus, I watch animal planet. Hee. Top of the food chain. I got no problem sacrificing a rat. Mac is going to find out something from monitoring Beaver's phone calls. So, I'm not the only one who found this mention intriguing. ;D ;D ;D Loved that bit. 'Cuz it could go either way. Could exonerate him or sould mean he was using Gia's information to pinpoint exactly where everyone and everything was. #smirk# Good to know I'm also not the only one who noticed this important bit as well. #smirk# **nods nods nods** Very interesting.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 21:57:26 GMT -5
Nothing really intelligent to add right now that hasn't already been said. I liked the episode, I will say that. I may have more thoughts on the re-watch. But I think before I watch it again, I'll take in a double feature: The Grifters and Body Heat. I was strongly reminded of both movies as I watched this episode, as it touched on themes of identity switching, long cons and femme fatales. Was anybody else reminded of them? Body Heat especially. Kendall/Priscilla doesn't quite have the smoldering sexuality that Kathleen Turner brought to that role - as in her sex appeal always seems so calculated and not quite as impassioned but in the con/reveal aspect - yes indeed. Chinatown would be another good one to watch . . .
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 22:04:05 GMT -5
I put his oddness down to the character. A big bumbling non-social bordering on a bit disturbing guy. Not good with people - not sure how to talk to them, not sure how to behave, etc. Honestly loved his dog - probably more than any human being - and continually giving off odd vibes to people because he doesn't really know how to be around them. I took it as a huge step for him to even talk to Veronica in the first place - he couldn't hardly look at her, had that "big guy hunched over because he's always trying not to physically be there, trying to somehow 'make himself small', go unnoticed" kind of vibe going. Um. This sounds like I've given it lots of thought and I really haven't. This is jsut the feeling I got about him. I've seen alot of people think the actor brought down the episode, and I've been trying to describe why he worked for me, but you just did it ten times better. I'd have to say that's exactly the feeling I got about him. Great job on the description! Gosh, thanks! It just was . . . . a feeling about him - an impression I got. But it definitely worked for me. And it made the final scene and Veronica's decision very believeable. By then I also was firmly convinced his brother's description of him was spot on. If Veronica had told him? He'd walk right out and just put an arrow thru Liam's throat.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 22:09:39 GMT -5
Pretty good episode except,I agree, for the Wallace/Jackie stuff.Cheesy as Hell! Nothing to add to the previous posts.Great analyzis of the show all around. At least,Logan was happy and funny in this one.Breath of fresh air because the lost puppy look/attitude is getting old. I hope he's going to get a break from the martyr Logan storyline. Can I add that for two years now we're hammered with Logan's unhappy because he's bad and bad because he's unhappy and noone loves him? I get it,thanks! Childhood trauma? Bad Karma? Unrequited love? Get over it,boy! And,please,change your behavior! If I get it,he should too,right? He should take example on Weevil.The boy cut all rotten ties with his old life and it's a good thing.I liked how he left the PChers in the dust. These guys are pathetic! I can't believe they thought Weevil would just come on back like nothing had ever happened. Like they hadn't betrayed him in such a fundamental way! It's all coming together very nicely for Aaron, isn't it? I can totally see a jury buying this, unfortunately. I've always been fond of the systems with 3 possible outcomes - guilty, innocent and not proven.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 22:10:49 GMT -5
Whew! No deep thoughts to add, except...snakes. Snakes and the Irish. St. Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland. Dunno if it's at all relevant. Just, snakes and the Fitzpatricks. I love this show. Bad guy Liam wearing a claddagh ring. Coincidence? And they've been really hammering home the Irish references too. The sticker on the car window, Liam talking about the luck of the Irish, etc.
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Post by Sue on Apr 22, 2006 22:12:37 GMT -5
I have a question (par for the course):
Veronica is working on the assumption that the explosives were in Dick's "goody bag" which he gave to Bettina.
1. This is a bag they got at the stadium as part of the field trip?
2. I do recall Dick saying he gave his bag to Bettina, but how does Veronica KNOW that the explosives were in it? I recall that she seemed to see that in one of her dreams, but are we SURE that this is the case? Has she decided that she actually did see the explosives in the bag and didn't recognize what they were even after the crash?
[And, if we are believing that it is a FACT that the bomb was in the bag how the heck did someone manage to plant a bomb in Dick's goody bag while he was at the stadium without him knowing? And, doesn't that seriously narrow down the suspect list? I mean, how would Kendall have pulled it off?]
Okay, so that's a bunch of questions, but mostly I'm asking if we are taking the "bomb was in Dick's bag" as fact and if so: Why?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 22:12:59 GMT -5
First, I think my head's going to explode while watching the episode and connecting the (in retrospect) few dots I see. Then later, I rewatch the episode and there's more head exploding as I catch things I missed the first time. Then, I come here and read all the terrific posts, and I realize I'd barely scratched the surface and the exploding head syndrome resurfaces. I'm thinking I should just not watch VM while it airs and wait for the DVD. Then I can see the whole thing in a shorter span of time, and maybe more of it will connect better and my head won't explode that much. Except I don't think I'd have the self control, and this is so much fun. Heee! 'Cuz, yeah, there's the whole different head explosion when you look back at the season again after the mystery is solved.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 22, 2006 22:15:04 GMT -5
I have a question (par for the course): Veronica is working on the assumption that the explosives were in Dick's "goody bag" which he gave to Bettina. 1. This is a bag they got at the stadium as part of the field trip? 2. I do recall Dick saying he gave his bag to Bettina, but how does Veronica KNOW that the explosives were in it? I recall that she seemed to see that in one of her dreams, but are we SURE that this is the case? Has she decided that she actually did see the explosives in the bag and didn't recognize what they were even after the crash? [And, if we are believing that it is a FACT that the bomb was in the bag how the heck did someone manage to plant a bomb in Dick's goody bag while he was at the stadium without him knowing? And, doesn't that seriously narrow down the suspect list? I mean, how would Kendall have pulled it off?] Okay, so that's a bunch of questions, but mostly I'm asking if we are taking the "bomb was in Dick's bag" as fact and if so: Why? I don't think I'm taking it as fact yet, but I'll be interested in what others think.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 22, 2006 22:52:58 GMT -5
I have a question (par for the course): Veronica is working on the assumption that the explosives were in Dick's "goody bag" which he gave to Bettina. 1. This is a bag they got at the stadium as part of the field trip? 2. I do recall Dick saying he gave his bag to Bettina, but how does Veronica KNOW that the explosives were in it? I recall that she seemed to see that in one of her dreams, but are we SURE that this is the case? Has she decided that she actually did see the explosives in the bag and didn't recognize what they were even after the crash? [And, if we are believing that it is a FACT that the bomb was in the bag how the heck did someone manage to plant a bomb in Dick's goody bag while he was at the stadium without him knowing? And, doesn't that seriously narrow down the suspect list? I mean, how would Kendall have pulled it off?] Okay, so that's a bunch of questions, but mostly I'm asking if we are taking the "bomb was in Dick's bag" as fact and if so: Why? Sue - my take on this is that Veronica is very into the theory that the bomb was in the bag . . . . but that Veronica does NOT know this as a 100% certainity, and we viewers definitely don't know it as a 100% certainity. It has never been presented as absolute fact - just as a theory Veronica has, that she got from her dream.
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Post by Sue on Apr 22, 2006 23:05:12 GMT -5
I have a question (par for the course): Veronica is working on the assumption that the explosives were in Dick's "goody bag" which he gave to Bettina. 1. This is a bag they got at the stadium as part of the field trip? 2. I do recall Dick saying he gave his bag to Bettina, but how does Veronica KNOW that the explosives were in it? I recall that she seemed to see that in one of her dreams, but are we SURE that this is the case? Has she decided that she actually did see the explosives in the bag and didn't recognize what they were even after the crash? [And, if we are believing that it is a FACT that the bomb was in the bag how the heck did someone manage to plant a bomb in Dick's goody bag while he was at the stadium without him knowing? And, doesn't that seriously narrow down the suspect list? I mean, how would Kendall have pulled it off?] Okay, so that's a bunch of questions, but mostly I'm asking if we are taking the "bomb was in Dick's bag" as fact and if so: Why? Sue - my take on this is that Veronica is very into the theory that the bomb was in the bag . . . . but that Veronica does NOT know this as a 100% certainity, and we viewers definitely don't know it as a 100% certainity. It has never been presented as absolute fact - just as a theory Veronica has, that she got from her dream. Thanks, and to Lola too. IMDB has a very strange list of cast members for this ep---doesn't match up with what I saw. Weird. Review going well. Hopefully tomorrow, but maybe not early.
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