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Post by artemis on Nov 15, 2006 6:18:48 GMT -5
One more point of info brought up this evening--the RA has keys to everyone's room. Which of course could allow him to plant date rape drugs and such... Just an idea. and a good one at that i've always gotten a creepy vibe off of him.
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Post by artemis on Nov 15, 2006 6:21:26 GMT -5
See, people tend to live down to your lowest expectations, if that's what you have. The reverse is supposed to be true, as well, that they live up to your highest expectations if that's what you have. Not sure where I'm going with, except that these adages don't always apply to Logan. Which is what makes him so interesting. it's what makes him such an unusual and refreshing character as far as television goes.
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Post by Onjel on Nov 15, 2006 8:16:29 GMT -5
One more point of info brought up this evening--the RA has keys to everyone's room. Which of course could allow him to plant date rape drugs and such... Just an idea. A good idea. He creeps me out anyway. And, hey, look at you! Junior S'cubie! Congratulations! ;D
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 15, 2006 8:45:36 GMT -5
Quick hi, VM fans!
Couldn't get on last night, but watched the ep.
FOTADA: Looks like Piz is out as a possible suspect. We know he was in his room while Veronica was being drugged, etc.
MARIA: Good thought on the RA and his keys.
The episode seemed to have this incredibly naive and trusting girl at one end (Meryl) and this incredibly jaded and doubting girl at the other (Veronica).
Both extremes had their pluses and minuses. Veronica helped her dad see what he needed to see; Meryl wasn't wrong about her sweetie. Veronica was unnecessarily pushing good things away to keep away the possible bad things; Meryl was unecessarily bringing bad things into her life to try to hang on to possible good things. It's seemed to be all about how one learns to negotiate life's gray and choppy waters, etc.
PROF LANDRY: I'm not sure I believe his "Oh, no - I wasn't trying to bribe you" shtick. He is smart enough to cover that way if confronted.
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Post by Sue on Nov 15, 2006 10:13:37 GMT -5
geez veronica is being awfully judgmental tonight. I get that tho. It's like Buffy not being able to trust because every male she's ever loved has left her. Veronica thought for a long time that she'd been raped. Even when it turned out to be not true it was true that Duncan withheld info. Also...Duncan slept with Meg. Jake Kane cheated with her mom (looking at the male's role here) and now her sainted father is cheating. The prof is cheating. She immediately figures that Meryl's boyfriend is cheating. Previously she has found Logan with Kendall. Veronica's life experience all leads to: Men Cheat.
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Post by Sue on Nov 15, 2006 10:17:31 GMT -5
Ewwwwwwww! I'd be wiping Fitzpatrick cooties off me too. And she's saved by a faux drunk Vinnie. Workin's both sides, Vinnie? That's . . . probably not safe. So, Sully is another man that wasn't taking part in the "vice" that Veronica assumed. But the loving scene with the girlfriend just highlights the trouble between Logan and Veronica. Drugged her in the food court. Damn, girl! When you first got dizzy, you should have called someone or gotten some help!! Eeeep! Set off the car alarm - good! And Logan is the one to notice your car . . . just in time. Huh. So, did they shave the heads of all the rape victims first? 'Cuz that's . . . I don't know what that is, but it's odd. A warning?
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Post by Sue on Nov 15, 2006 10:29:52 GMT -5
Since I'm not writing reviews I also haven't been rewatching. And I've been interrupted nearly every week and missed bits and pieces.
Even tho the arc will be completed by then I am really looking forward to rewatching all the episodes back to back over Christmas with Carolyn and Allison.
My money is still on the Dean.
Sorry, but I do not care at all for Harmony. Possibly because I don't like her with Keith. Possibly because I have a really hard time with people being so intimately drawn to one another so rapidly---whether true or just a result of viewing time constraints we haven't really seen H and K spending oddles of time together really getting to know one another. I mean, I can sort of understand say an intra-office affair because people working together spend a lot of time together etc. But if you know someone is married then....you don't even start down the path of "getting to know them" better.
Maybe it's just the whole storyline I don't like. Maybe that's due to my own internal issues with the concept.
But.....the whole thing just doesn't play right to be. Keith and Harmony both seem forced. I guess I'm saying that I really don't see any "chemistry" at all, which makes it all that much harder to buy the affair.
They should get him back together with Wallace's mom. Of course, she's not married so you lose that aspect.
============
As for V: losing the ability to trust is easy. Regaining it...not so much.
I am beyond pleased that Veronica was not raped. And beyond beyond please that Logan got to be the "knight in shining armor."
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 15, 2006 12:21:16 GMT -5
geez veronica is being awfully judgmental tonight. I get that tho. It's like Buffy not being able to trust because every male she's ever loved has left her. Veronica thought for a long time that she'd been raped. Even when it turned out to be not true it was true that Duncan withheld info. Also...Duncan slept with Meg. Jake Kane cheated with her mom (looking at the male's role here) and now her sainted father is cheating. Veronica was raped - by Beaver. First she thought she had been raped, then she thought she had not been, but ultimately she found out she had been raped. So that adds to what you are saying here also, on her mistrust of men. I think Veronica was hugely let down by her dad in particular. As she said, he was her one "big shining example." But as all kids must, she is finding out that her hero is human after all.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 15, 2006 12:55:04 GMT -5
Since I'm not writing reviews I also haven't been rewatching. And I've been interrupted nearly every week and missed bits and pieces. Even tho the arc will be completed by then I am really looking forward to rewatching all the episodes back to back over Christmas with Carolyn and Allison. My money is still on the Dean. Sorry, but I do not care at all for Harmony. Possibly because I don't like her with Keith. Possibly because I have a really hard time with people being so intimately drawn to one another so rapidly---whether true or just a result of viewing time constraints we haven't really seen H and K spending oddles of time together really getting to know one another. I mean, I can sort of understand say an intra-office affair because people working together spend a lot of time together etc. But if you know someone is married then....you don't even start down the path of "getting to know them" better. Maybe it's just the whole storyline I don't like. Maybe that's due to my own internal issues with the concept. But.....the whole thing just doesn't play right to be. Keith and Harmony both seem forced. I guess I'm saying that I really don't see any "chemistry" at all, which makes it all that much harder to buy the affair. The way she acted this week soured me totally on Harmony. She's just soooo needy. So needy, that she's willing to . . . kind of awkwardly play the temptress, trying to manipulate Keith into going against his better judgment. I was glad Keith stuck to his guns. That is the second time in a short time that Logan has "ridden to the rescue" of Veronica. (Beaver on the rooftop being the other time.) It was OK, and it fit with the storyline of Veronica continuing to understand that the people around her aren't "heroes and villains" but more complex than that. But still, I hope there isn't too much more "rescue the damsel" stuff.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 15, 2006 13:48:52 GMT -5
Since I don't have a lot of time to read all the comments today I'm cutting and pasting from my lj: I have tried to watch everything on VM this season, in what might be the last season, with an I'm going to enjoy this eye. And it has really worked for the most part. Because I was sooooo negative about Duncan last season and loathed that storyline I tried to give Piz a break. Look at his character, look at his acting and not prejudge him. But at some point I reach a line and Piz stepped over it last night. I officially now loathe Piz. His smug, trying to imply he and Veronica were doing something with his pauses and conversation with Logan made me want to hurt him. I am so over you Piz. And Veronica also wins the prize for the most judgemental bitchery of the season. Whew. I have never ever written this but I think I'm leaning towards the Logan dump Veronica on her "only I can have secrets while I pass judgment on everyone else" ass. Seriously. Okay big secret let's talk. I think this was a very walk the line call on the writer's part and it works for me. What was everyone expecting? He slept with and then murdered 2 or 3 girls? First it had to be something that really would hurt Mercer and I don't know. The idea of being in prison in Mexico does sound scary. Second, it had to paint Logan in a bad light for Saint Veronica of the Boxers and yet not do irreparable harm to Logan's character. So sleeping and wasted he runs from a fire instead of playing fireman and helping. Knowing he could be in big trouble if he stayed and Mercer certainly would. Bad call -yes. Understandable call - yes. The problem to me is far more the not telling Veronica in the first place than in the reveal. Of course, Logan knows Veronica and correctly predicted she would go all "Get your lying ass far from me" on him. Good God he has rescued you how many times? Trusted you? Believed in you? And yet he does not meet her lofty standards so she's all trembly I was going to work on my trust issues but not anymore with him. So, so over this. I get that she's damaged goods, I do. And she's hurting about Keith too. But I seriously did not like her this ep. Couple this with mean and bitchy to Meryl (though hee Dolce and Gabbana study buddy collection), running into the River Styxx, and walking into a deserted garage after being drugged and by far the worse offense - hanging out in her boxer pjs with Piz. Gah. Speaking of the River Styxx - was that weird grab and dance move by Liam supposed to be scary? Because I was kind of giggling and thinking wow that looks uncomfortable. Is he trying to feel her up? Last Dance keeps playing in his mind and he needed a partner? What was that? Oh and hi Vinnie. You are always a breath of fresh air. I can fanwank that Veronica walked to the garage instead of oh I don't know, staying in the populated, well lit food court and calling her dad, that maybe the drugs messed up her reasoning abilities. And maybe she just wanted to get to her car, lock herself in and call. But seriously? The scene was nicely done and I'm all for epiphanies (Didn't Buffy have like a 100 of them the final season?) and I did like the episode but Veronica's bitchy mode sure turned down the dial. As for the rapist are we going for Dean O'dell here? Why? Angry at his cheating slutty wife so he's raping the other sluts around? He did marry a grad student so . . . . I don't know. None of the rapist candidates really stand out to me but I don't really care either. Hee! Jason and Enrico did a lovely job of acting tonight and this episode had it's moments. I do like that they are using problems inherent to Logan and Veronica's relationship (trust/secrets) to create problems instead of hey look hot guy/girl. I'm going to dump you so you can look forlorn and talk snarky. Still I want the girl who was all possessive of her boyfriend to actually treat him like a boyfriend. Someone fax Veronica a copy of How to Treat Boyfriends for Dummies. She really needs some helpful hints.
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Post by Vlad on Nov 15, 2006 15:43:40 GMT -5
<snip> That is the second time in a short time that Logan has "ridden to the rescue" of Veronica. (Beaver on the rooftop being the other time.) It was OK, and it fit with the storyline of Veronica continuing to understand that the people around her aren't "heroes and villains" but more complex than that. But still, I hope there isn't too much more "rescue the damsel" stuff. I agree with you but want to point out it's been more than twice... he also saved her ass in the Fitzpatrick's bar with the gun mid-last season as well as showing up and popping the FBI/DEA/ATF undercover cop played by "the annoying one" from Home Improvement. Logan has a knack for showing up at hte right time. Vlad
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 15, 2006 16:35:50 GMT -5
<snip> That is the second time in a short time that Logan has "ridden to the rescue" of Veronica. (Beaver on the rooftop being the other time.) It was OK, and it fit with the storyline of Veronica continuing to understand that the people around her aren't "heroes and villains" but more complex than that. But still, I hope there isn't too much more "rescue the damsel" stuff. I agree with you but want to point out it's been more than twice... he also saved her ass in the Fitzpatrick's bar with the gun mid-last season as well as showing up and popping the FBI/DEA/ATF undercover cop played by "the annoying one" from Home Improvement. Logan has a knack for showing up at hte right time. Vlad Oh - that's right! We've seen it four times. I think part of this is about giving the Logan/Veronica pairing more substance and "glue" and . . . not so much "rehabilitating" Logan as showing us what is good and brave in Logan. We get a lot of that with him: The same episode where we learn he took off from the motel fire like a frightened rabbit, we also learn that he will rush without hesitation into who-knows-what situation to save Veronica. But regardless - yeah, I think we've had enough of it. The whole "boyfriend to the rescue" thing is too "damsel-in-distressy" for this show, IMO.
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Post by Maria on Nov 15, 2006 17:05:38 GMT -5
One more point of info brought up this evening--the RA has keys to everyone's room. Which of course could allow him to plant date rape drugs and such... Just an idea. A good idea. He creeps me out anyway. And, hey, look at you! Junior S'cubie! Congratulations! ;D LOL--thanks! I thought I had noticed a change
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Post by Rob on Nov 15, 2006 17:33:36 GMT -5
Was Veronica overly judgmental with Keith in this episode? No question. Understandably, she's still a work in progress when it comes to understanding human nature. Maybe when she gets a little older, Veronica will understand middle-aged Keith's loneliness, and the heartbreaking miracle of finding Mrs. Right...when in fact it's someone else's Mrs. I'm willing to bet there's a high percentage of people reading this who have found themselves desperately attracted to someone who's "taken" and unhappy with their current relationship. Anyone who's been there - whether they chose to indulge their desires and feelings or not - would have a deeper understanding of Keith's situation. On the other hand, was Veronica wrong in her assessments? I'd have to say no; I pretty much agreed with every opinion she expressed from a moral standpoint. Sometimes we need people in our lives to tell us the truth, even when it's ugly. Such was Veronica's role with Keith. Could she have been nicer about it? Of course. Could she have been as effective? Who knows? The point is, her position is valid, and Keith reached the same conclusion in the end. ********* If this episode established anything once and for all, it was the clear disparity between Logan and Veronica's view of one another. Veronica doesn't have the same regard for Logan as he does for her. Simple as that. In all honesty, that's probably as it should be. Aside from his clearly strong feelings for Veronica, Logan has done little or nothing to clean up his act. He continues to do incredibly stupid and irresponsible "poor little rich boy" antics: gambling away his trust fund, blowing off classes, boozing it up in Tijuana. Why SHOULD Veronica completely trust Logan? He hasn't changed his outlook on life, he's just tried to compartmentalize his wild partying so Veronica doesn't have to see it. How is it fair to ask Veronica to tolerate this, much less trust Logan with no questions asked? Much as I love the character, he hasn't earned that much. I truly believe Veronica has tried to adapt to Logan as he is, but that foundation is shaky at best. So...unless Logan can straighten himself up, this relationship should be temporarily suspended for the good of both parties. Let's face it, Logan still has a ton of growing up to do, and Veronica is enabling him by trying to turn a blind eye to his mistakes. Sometimes it takes more than love. P.S. Notice how Veronica seeks sanctuary from Men-In-General by retreating to Wallace's place?
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 15, 2006 17:42:13 GMT -5
Was Veronica overly judgmental with Keith in this episode? No question. Understandably, she's still a work in progress when it comes to understanding human nature. Maybe when she gets a little older, Veronica will understand middle-aged Keith's loneliness, and the heartbreaking miracle of finding Mrs. Right...when in fact it's someone else's Mrs. I'm willing to bet there's a high percentage of people reading this who have found themselves desperately attracted to someone who's "taken" and unhappy with their current relationship. Anyone who's been there - whether they chose to indulge their desires and feelings or not - would have a deeper understanding of Keith's situation. On the other hand, was Veronica wrong in her assessments? I'd have to say no; I pretty much agreed with every opinion she expressed from a moral standpoint. Sometimes we need people in our lives to tell us the truth, even when it's ugly. Such was Veronica's role with Keith. Could she have been nicer about it? Of course. Could she have been as effective? Who knows? The point is, her position is valid, and Keith reached the same conclusion in the end. ********* If this episode established anything once and for all, it was the clear disparity between Logan and Veronica's view of one another. Veronica doesn't have the same regard for Logan as he does for her. Simple as that. In all honesty, that's probably as it should be. Aside from his clearly strong feelings for Veronica, Logan has done little or nothing to clean up his act. He continues to do incredibly stupid and irresponsible "poor little rich boy" antics: gambling away his trust fund, blowing off classes, boozing it up in Tijuana. Why SHOULD Veronica completely trust Logan? He hasn't changed his outlook on life, he's just tried to compartmentalize his wild partying so Veronica doesn't have to see it. How is it fair to ask Veronica to tolerate this, much less trust Logan with no questions asked? Much as I love the character, he hasn't earned that much. I truly believe Veronica has tried to adapt to Logan as he is, but that foundation is shaky at best. So...unless Logan can straighten himself up, this relationship should be temporarily suspended for the good of both parties. Let's face it, Logan still has a ton of growing up to do, and Veronica is enabling him by trying to turn a blind eye to his mistakes. Sometimes it takes more than love. P.S. Notice how Veronica seeks sanctuary from Men-In-General by retreating to Wallace's place? Well said, Rob! #applaud# Interesing insight on where Veronica seeks refuge. She hasn't been betrayed by men only, after all. Her biggest betrayal came from MOM.
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