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Post by artemis on Nov 29, 2006 6:24:37 GMT -5
shit, the phone rang. parker?Does parker have a sain bernard's ears? AWESOME! PArker!! Someone stop him! AWesome! She came through! That was the Best. Possible. Resolution! I loved that it was Parker who got to stand up to Mercer and just not back down!! Go, Parker! i totally agree. that was so awesome! i love that she was totally sure of her perceptions (even more so than the before-raped parker) and that her not backing down persuaded some of the other dormmates. (also thought it was interesting that everyone that responded was a man, though i don't know if RT had a specific point with that or not.) and the cinematography framing when she opens the door: veronica lying sideways, unconscious, and parker framed by her head, looking around, noticing her, then rushing towards the head in the foreground, getting closer and closer and finally stooping down - that was very well-done, i though.
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Post by artemis on Nov 29, 2006 6:26:25 GMT -5
The hair falling down on her? Seriously creepy. i actually literally started shuddering.
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Post by artemis on Nov 29, 2006 6:27:45 GMT -5
And in other news, I sooooo love Mac even more 'cuz of this ep. The deadpan look. The "ask me about my STD" shirt. Oh, me too! She totally rocks the house! i loved that, too! if only all college girls got the option of getting one upon admission! ;D
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Post by artemis on Nov 29, 2006 6:40:12 GMT -5
i agree with vlad on logan at the end of the episode, and would add that i think he also feels like he no longer has veronica (since they broke up) and that he is likely also still smarting from the loss of his half-brother (regardless of whether you think the half-brother was in on it, logan seems to believe he wasn't). so to him i think he feels like he has literally nothing left to lose.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:17:15 GMT -5
So, V can get away with murder. Why am I not surprised? The girlfiriend likes Dick. Did you catch Logan's line about Dick being a "master-debater?" Made me think of Xander and Dracula and Xander calling Dracula "the master" then trying to cover it up by adding "bater."
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:19:06 GMT -5
OK, color me an idiot. I totally spaced on the clue about Mercer and the music. But at least I can feel all "I knew it" about my earlier thoughts that the floor warden guy was kinda suspicious with the tea giving and stuff. Color me spacy as well - 'splainy, please - I do not understand about the music - something about using a recording to make it seem like he was in the studio . . . ?
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Post by Pixi on Nov 29, 2006 8:29:59 GMT -5
So, V can get away with murder. Why am I not surprised? The girlfiriend likes Dick. Did you catch Logan's line about Dick being a "master-debater?" Made me think of Xander and Dracula and Xander calling Dracula "the master" then trying to cover it up by adding "bater." I totally went there.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:30:53 GMT -5
Logan smashing the cop car so he can be in jail with Mercer and Mo, yeah? Oh, yeah. He is sooo gonna go medieval on them. Well, he told Veronica he couldn't not take action . . . . It was very realistic (painfully realistic), but I hated the Veronica-Logan break-up scene. Ugh. Why, why, why must men feel NEEDED? Wanted isn't enough? They gotta be white knights? All the time? Poor Veronica. She shouldn't change for him, that's for sure. Stick to your guns, Veronica. Stay strong and independent and he's got to learn to be OK with it, or look for someone more his speed. I love Logan and love to watch his . . . lack of anger management skills . . . he's going to beat the snot out of Mercer & Moe, e.g., but Veronica isn't going to care for that either, I'm thinking. This is a good show. I loved the episode in general and that shocking ending! Just when I was reallly starting to like the Dean! I wonder what happened in the motel room. I sure hope Weevil does not get into any trouble for finding the Dean's body. Surely he is smart enough to call the cops and not touch anything. ALSO - who else thought Veronica was the one who offed Don Lamb in her perfect murder scenario?
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Post by Pixi on Nov 29, 2006 8:32:14 GMT -5
Whoohoo!!! This is me, standing and cheering for my show again. Oh my show - you're back, you're back. Amazing, awesome episode! So very well done.
I got 1/2 of the rapist team right. Do I get a cookie?
I've been critical this season over a lot of things but I also am eager to give applause where it is due and "Spit and Eggs" was a terrific episode. From the opening Veronica in danger to the flashback in time, I was riveted.
I thought Rob did a great job of using the clues we've seen to create a plausible rape team with Mercer wanting power over the women and not wanting to make an effort(which is always the reason for rape, not the sex), the prison experiment showing us why Moe was subjected to him (and the clunky dialogue from Logan about Horshak tying in - I knew that was important!)to all the little things that pointed the way.
Clues like Mercer dressing as a Clockwork Orange character, Moe's fascination with Battlestar Galatica, Club Flush, the keys, the tea, the prison experiment, the way Parker was instantly creeped out by meeting Mercer - which again I thought was important because that scene was well done - and so many more.
Note to Logan: You need some new friends. They all seem to be criminals. Here's an idea - more time with Wallace perhaps? Loved their teaming up to attempt a rescue.
I also loved the way we the viewers have gotten to know Dean O'Dell and care about him. Begley has been terrific in this role and I am genuinely sorry to see him die. The wanting to save the 40 year old Scotch should have foreshadowed that to me but I was too worried they were setting the Dean up as the rapist there and I did not want him to be it. Great job of interweaving the rape pursuit scenes and the Dean scenes. Great choice of victim for the next arc. Sigh! I'll miss you and your Olivia Newton-John music.
It goes almost without saying but Jason was magnificent in all his scenes last night. The bashing of the police car to exact revenge. Oh my, my. My keyboard is burning with all that "hotness" as I type this. Excellent way to show Logan's passion there. Well-written, beautifully filmed.
I also thought Kristen did a good job last night too. I'm the first to bash KB when she doesn't give an allout performance as it takes me out of the show and I hate that. But I was completely invested in the episode last night and her reaction to the breakup (again another magnificently well-written moment that NEEDED to occur)to the crying in the shower, to the brave front, to all her in danger moments - great job KB.
Note to Veronica: See what happens when you go off on your own? I know you are a young ingenue lead of a TV show so that pretty much legally requires you to be in danger but in the real world, heading off to confront a rapist by yourself, really not such a good idea. Want to rethink that whole tearing Logan a new one for hiring a bodyguard to watch you?
All the other characters did a great job also. Kudos to Parker for saving the day, Mac (bwah on the t-shirt) -you absolutely rule, Wallace - I don't like the new hair but you are as always stalwart and true, Piz - don't get me wrong, I still loathe you but as the overly cheerful, overly dorky friend I enjoyed your performance last night.
Okay - worse dance? (1) Angel in She (2) Elaine in Seinfeld or (3) Piz in Spit and Eggs.
So many other things to love about this. Can't we just mail this episode to every one in the country so they will start watching VM and the ratings will soar? They've sucked me back in again, just when I was all resigned to losing this.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:32:40 GMT -5
Yeah, as Karen pointed out to me, the argument with Veronica over "trust" relating to Mercer was one of the proximal causes of them breaking up: he backed Mercer up to V. Hoo boy. This one is going to get squishy and messy. Yup. This is just messy, messy, messy!! Yeah - I was thinking that the rape that Mercer was "out of town" for was either a "fake" rape, ala Claire, or else something Moe did, at Mercer's direction, specifically to give him an alibi. Either way, Logan was surely telling Veronica the truth about Mexico.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:34:35 GMT -5
Oh, me too! She totally rocks the house! I loved that we got to see the whole gang work together - Piz, Wallace, Meg, Veronica, Logan. I hope we get to see more of that. Yes - especially good to see Mac. If Veronica is going to learn to trust more and accept more help, she needs more Macs in her life.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:42:20 GMT -5
Logan deserves a lot of credit for recognizing he and Veronica's problems and acting accordingly. While I still don't think he understands just how much his own behavior needs to change, it was a step in the right direction to end things. They weren't right for one another...at least for now. Rob Thomas hit all the right notes with Logan in this episode. I don't know how Webster would define maturity, but in part I'd guess it involves our ability to temper our emotions in favor of common sense. When a child isn't allowed to go to the park and play because no adult is available to watch them, the child screams, cries, throws things...even worse, who hasn't seen kids who physically assault their parents? Happens all the time. At some point, though, most of us reach a maturity that allows us to understand we can't do such things any more; that kind of behavior is at least unacceptable...at most, illegal. Logan is one of those who has slipped through the cracks. He is technically an adult, he speaks as an adult...yet he isn't a man, because the childish things haven't been put away. On a visceral level, all of us can approve of Logan smashing the county's vehicles (thereby protesting against their bumbling) AND getting his hands on the two slimeballs who were willing to kill Veronica to save their own sorry asses. I know I was nodding my head in approval when he was locked in that cell. But then I got to thinking: who among us would actually go through with such a drastic plan, even if it was our own family? Wallace is very close to Veronica, but I doubt he even considered it. Keith had an enormous opportunity to cause them serious pain, but he didn't either. What good could he do Veronica if he, too, were in jail? If it were me...much as I may want to pummel anyone who seriously hurt my family, I know I wouldn't do what Logan did...and I'm willing to bet most people posting here wouldn't, either. We'll scream and throw a fit, but we won't cross that line. Our maturity and common sense separates us from the psycho-rapist killers of the world. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Logan shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone until he can stop himself from self-destructive actions, no matter how understandable. I agree with you completely, but I gotta add, just being realistic - if someone hurt my son, I do think I could blow his head off - surely in the heat of the moment, I could. Of course, Logan's course of action is premediated/planned out. But I have to admit, when I hear stories of mothers or fathers who go into courtrooms and shoot the child-molester, well - I mean, I hope, and I think, I could keep myself from doing that, but I can also identify very strongly with the urge. Would my maturity/common-sense prevail? I hope so. If my child was still alive, I would think that knowing I had to be there for him (not in prison) could do the job. If my child had been murdered . . . well, I have to admit, I'd have to call on all my loved ones to keep me from doing the wrong thing - which is something I could do, but Logan really can't. He hasn't got anyone, which is part of the problem. Even when he was alive, Aaron was a horrendously bad example, and Logan is definitely following his example, here. Remember how he seemed to look up to his dad for beating his sister's boyfriend? Now - outside of that parent-child thing, I think I could handle myself. But that's just the thing - Logan is very protective, almost parentally so, of Veronica, and she just doesn't want or need another daddy.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:49:57 GMT -5
Logan deserves a lot of credit for recognizing he and Veronica's problems and acting accordingly. While I still don't think he understands just how much his own behavior needs to change, it was a step in the right direction to end things. They weren't right for one another...at least for now. Rob Thomas hit all the right notes with Logan in this episode. I don't know how Webster would define maturity, but in part I'd guess it involves our ability to temper our emotions in favor of common sense. When a child isn't allowed to go to the park and play because no adult is available to watch them, the child screams, cries, throws things...even worse, who hasn't seen kids who physically assault their parents? Happens all the time. At some point, though, most of us reach a maturity that allows us to understand we can't do such things any more; that kind of behavior is at least unacceptable...at most, illegal. Logan is one of those who has slipped through the cracks. He is technically an adult, he speaks as an adult...yet he isn't a man, because the childish things haven't been put away. On a visceral level, all of us can approve of Logan smashing the county's vehicles (thereby protesting against their bumbling) AND getting his hands on the two slimeballs who were willing to kill Veronica to save their own sorry asses. I know I was nodding my head in approval when he was locked in that cell. But then I got to thinking: who among us would actually go through with such a drastic plan, even if it was our own family? Wallace is very close to Veronica, but I doubt he even considered it. Keith had an enormous opportunity to cause them serious pain, but he didn't either. What good could he do Veronica if he, too, were in jail? If it were me...much as I may want to pummel anyone who seriously hurt my family, I know I wouldn't do what Logan did...and I'm willing to bet most people posting here wouldn't, either. We'll scream and throw a fit, but we won't cross that line. Our maturity and common sense separates us from the psycho-rapist killers of the world. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Logan shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone until he can stop himself from self-destructive actions, no matter how understandable. You have some good insights, Rob. But, I think there are points you are missing out on here. Veronica is Logan's only link ... the only thing he has to lose, least as far as he is concerned. His dad and mom are dead. He never cared much for his idiot half-sister... His best buddy left for Australia on the lam with a baby. He has no "real" friends. I mean.. who? Dick? His other pal of recent, Mercer, jsut turned out to be a rapist. So, when a guy with a temper (both genetic and taught by daddy) has nothing to lose and a person (Mercer) he trusted somewhat (and tried to protect) jsut f*cked with his girlfriend to the point of trying to kill her... yeah, I see him going right into that cell and doing his worst. What's he got to lose? He knows he can't be with Veronica because of BOTH their issues, but he sure as hell loves her. He basically told Veronica he would do anything for her, that he would always be there for her. In doing this, vigilante as it may be, he is being there for her. Satisfying a certain personal score himself, sure, but I can't help but feel that anyone that knows Veronica and loves her will feel bad about what happens to these two guys and that justice was served. As far as betting most people wouldn't, fairly safe bet; but not all. I've been there, and over less and with more to lose. It's not immaturity, as I see it; it's a state of mind. It's truly having little or nothing to lose. And what does Logan have to lose? His trust fund will be there while he serves a year or so on the state's dime. He doesn't have to worry about "public opinion." Heck, he might even get off with a sympathetic jury (assuming he jsut beats the crap out of Mercer and the RA and doesn't kill them). Worst that happens to him, he gets out of jail and he is still "Logan Echolls, spoiled rich brat of that murdering actor." Which he will always be to the world that doesn't know him. Veronica isn't gonna hate him for what he did; Keith isn't gonna think "less" of him. You think Eli will have a problem with it? Or Wallace? Or the actually raped girls? No, he is providing the service he can, because of his own special circumstance. Some people do not and will not ever fit into proper society... and sometimes that can be a good thing, even if we civilized, mature folks don't like to admit it. Heck, it's why we root for Veronica and Keith every time they break a piddlin' law to make sure justice is served. They are often doing things that "most people posting here wouldn't" as well. And Rob, hey, this is jsut a spirited debate. You know I love ya, dude. I will stop short of saying I want to have your babies, cause.. well, that would jsut be ooky. Vlad Part of being an adult is learning impulse control. Agree that Logan must feel he has "nothing to lose," though in fact, he has plenty to lose. His actions will cement the break-up and probably mean further distance in his relationship with Veronica. It will mean assault charges and everything that means for his future. And I agree that the girls who were raped, and others like Wallace, won't begrudge Logan what he's done, and may even consider him a hero. I mean, heck - like Rob, I was nodding my head and thinking "go Logan, go!" But it reminded me soooo much of watching Aaron beat his daughter's boyfriend, and Logan is very, very, much in need of breaking away from his father's example. Logan does have a general problem with maturity, impulse control, violence . . . if this was KEITH, losing control this once, fair or not - I'd feel differently about it.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:51:30 GMT -5
Oh, me too! She totally rocks the house! i loved that, too! if only all college girls got the option of getting one upon admission! ;D Oh - I loved the t-shirt too! I hope we see more Mac.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 29, 2006 8:52:22 GMT -5
Did you catch Logan's line about Dick being a "master-debater?" Made me think of Xander and Dracula and Xander calling Dracula "the master" then trying to cover it up by adding "bater." I totally went there. I love that I wasn't the only one.
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