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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:09:02 GMT -5
I haven't seen that one in a while. That's a good one.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:09:23 GMT -5
I posted this on the wrong board!
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:09:47 GMT -5
I'm glad you found it. I posted it in the wrong place. So weird...
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:10:24 GMT -5
I have to admit; sequels, spinoffs and guest spots concern me. A "sequel" to BtVS would most likely come in the form of a movie. No matter how much I miss it/them, the idea of a movie does not fill me with joy. For one thing, it would be 3 years or more before all of the details: script, backers, money, contracts and schedules would be worked out. And these folks aren't getting any younger. Sci-fi movies spawn more sequels (and more successful sequels) than any other genre (think: Matrix, Alien, Terminator, X-Men, Star Trek and the first 3 Star Wars). But in my opinion this is due in large part because the stories are driven more by special effects and outside forces and less by interpersonal relationships. Buffy is the direct opposite. To do a Buffy movie somewhere down the line would require fitting the movie into all of the canonical back-story from 7 years of Buffy and X more years of Angel. Plus, if Angel or other spinoffs are around then the movie can't create any waves which can't be absorbed by the on-going stories. The only exception I can see would be to have Buffy-related movie, but with almost entirely new characters and story line with "drop-ins" by the original cast. Not sure this would be satisfying. No matter how "unfinished" we view some parts of the story after the Chosen I'm beginning to feel it is still best to let it rest (in peace). Imagine how horrid a "sequel" to Casablanca would be. Recall the sequel to "Gone With the Wind". Lord of the Rings movies doesn't count--they were all part of the original story. Do you really want Tolkien's heirs to put out a 4th book? That's not working so well in the Star Wars universe. Do you care to follow up on the lives of those who lived after the ending of Titanic? Of course not. The story that was being told ended when the ship sank. Do we want Romeo and Juliet resurrected? Spinoffs: Now one of these, especially in Joss' hands might be okay. Mainly because I think he has the genius to start fresh and not try to force it to be "Buffy II". Problem is, I keep hearing how he wants to do movies and I hate for him to start something and then turn it over to others. As we've seen, no matter how gifted, the "others" are notJoss. This has been tried on a number of TV series and hasn't gone well. Guest Spots: Yeah, we want to see Giles, Willow, Xander, maybe even Dawn or Andrew. But I only want to see them if someone has truly invented a complete background storyline for them which makes sense. I don't just want them dropping in from nowhere into a special Angel plot which has been crafted around the guest visit and then returning to the void. It would feel forced and unsatisfying. Even worse would be a visit from Buffy. Personally, I never thought the crossover episodes from Season 4 worked all that well. In "Pangs" Buffy never even saw Angel. Was that satisfying? Do we want that for Spike? Then, when she went to L.A. -- well, I'm sorry, but the whole, "I can't be human and still take care of you" thing smacked of Riley. Plus, Angel making decisions for her again. And the reason for the lameness of the plot: in order to work in a visit from Buffy the plot had to be twisted to allow her to come and go without really impacting anything in the Angelverse. How could Buffy visit L.A., interact with Angel, interact with Spike and satisfy anybody? Neither guy is going to get her. Hoops would have to be jumped through. Unless Joss can come up with one heck of an incredible storyline, I say, move on. Focus on new characters, new relationships. Oh yeah, that finally brings me to my personal opinion on Spike's role on AtS next year. In reference to earlier discussions: his hair can be any color, he can wear any clothes, I have nothing against him being human--in fact I'm almost leaning in favor of that. Angel jealous of Spike's humanity. Spike actually subconsciously jealous of Angel's vampiric qualities. I think there could be some tremendous writing and acting in a "return to human" storyline. Oh, and I don't particularly want Spike to rush into anything relationship wise. Mostly I'd like to see him have some real friendships. Well, if anybody can pull it off it will be Joss. Here we go with the expectations thing again.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:10:54 GMT -5
Sue said: if anybody can pull it off it will be Joss. I'm almost sure we'll get a Buffy visit on Angel. During sweeps. I don't really WANT one, unless they can finish the thing once and for all. Let both vamps let her go. Maybe she could drop in asking for help, and then introduce them to her new husband 'Sam'. That would resolve things.
Patti T.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:11:37 GMT -5
<"...I had to jettison one of the rules from the movie, which was that Buffy had sort of a cramping every time she was around a vampire. In a series I didn't want her to always know when she was around a vampire. And that's too bad in a way because it was a very primal, feminist concept that she literally feels it in her womb, as it were. But I had seven years and she needed to be surprised."> To say nothing of the fact that it's really hard to have enjoyable sex with vampires if she's busy cramping.... Rhonda [Automated by GetSmile]
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:12:10 GMT -5
Patti said: //Maybe she could drop in asking for help, and then introduce them to her new husband 'Sam'. That would resolve things. // Yeah, I like that.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:12:41 GMT -5
Not only funny, but horribly prophetic; since he lost an eye. Anyone notice that the false i.d. of Spike as "Randy", son of Giles in TABULA RASA came true in a roundabout way, through Spike becoming the consort of Giles' surrogate daughter? Gail
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:13:08 GMT -5
Seems like folks are taking a breather. Either to catch up, or still in mourning/emotional shock. Or, maybe writing fanfic, she said hopefully. Goodnite all.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:13:45 GMT -5
Was just thinking about the Spuffy relationship in season 7, and Spike's evolution from sexually predatory almost stalking mode to that of Buffy's friend and helper. The concept of Courtly Love developed in the Middle Ages, I believe before the 12th century. For those of you who don't know much about it, it was a literary and social view of the men and women of the nobility in Western Europe, mainly France and England (which was at that point heavily influenced by all things Francais). The man would strive to become a pure and chaste lover of a certain lady and do great deeds in her honor without presuming to physical concept. So a knight or a nobleman could profess courtly love towards a married woman and no one would be upset about it. The knight would wear her favors in a tournament, that sort of thing. In the King Arthur stories (I think Chretien de Troyes wrote some, not to mention Malory)this concept got a good deal of play. Queen Guinevere was, in modern author T.H. White's words "the romantic mistress" of a nation. Of course the knight put his lady on a pedestal and idolized her. It was a preclude to romantic love. Spike has been acting like a courtly lover since he regained his sanity midseason, or at least very close to it, since thankfully he doesn't idolize Buffy. (part of the appeal of their relationship is that Spike knows what makes Buffy tick, I think he understands her better than almost anyone, certainly better than Angel does) And he has been sexually very respectful, shelving his own desires. (I do hope they slept together during their last night, but we won't ever know for sure) Spike became Buffy's strong right arm, offered to leave her to protect her from his First-induced violence, helped her train the Potentials, fought beside her, raged on her behalf to the ungrateful girls who kicked her out of her own house, gave her back her strength when she had none left, and then became a champion and sent her out of the Hellmouth to live rather than have her die beside him. William would have been aware of the concept of courtly love; though I doubt it was much present in his conscious mind. He's a natural romantic. Just thought I'd throw this out for your consideration. Spike finally became Buffy's knight in shining armor! Gail
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:14:14 GMT -5
//That is SMG's opinion, and maybe it really shouldn't carry any more weight than my own in my mind.// There's a big difference between Joss and SMG when it comes to what is what in the Buffyverse. SMG might play Buffy, but Joss *is* Buffy, although there might be times that SMG might want to believe she is Buffy. Sorry Sarah, you aren't a slayer -- you just played one a TV, and now, you don't even do that much anymore.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:14:49 GMT -5
Haven't read what everyone else has to say, yet, but I LOVE the topical index. What a wonderful idea! It was so kind of you to go to all the trouble. I have to stop gushing now because I am not used to gushing and I have run out of (sincere)new things to say. At least this time I won't have the same problem that I had last time I 'gushed': my computer crashed just as I hit 'post', I reconsidered, checked that the 'gushing' post had not appeared and wrote another more sedate post. Imagine my embarrassment when both posts appeared.
Kerrie Davis
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:16:01 GMT -5
//I had to jettison one of the rules from the movie, which was that Buffy had sort of a cramping every time she was around a vampire.// Joss changed several things from the movie, the cramps were just one of them. In the movie, Buffy was a senior, but upon arrival in Sunnydale, she was a sophomore -- Joss did that so that if the show did indeed survive, he'd have two extra years to work with high school storylines. In the movie, watchers are reborn again and again, and apparently so are slayers. In the TV show, Giles was just a plain old boring human being, as was Buffy other than her slayer powers. From my understanding, this was Joss' intention all along. In the movie, vampires could be spotted a mile away, no matter what. In the TV show, they looked like you and me until they got hungry. Another one that was apparently Joss' intention all along. Also in the movie, the vampires didn't dust -- that one Joss did change on purpose for the TV show, because he didn't want to have the Scoobies constantly doing cleanup after the big battle. In the movie, Hemery High School survives the battle with Lothos intact. In the TV show, there are references to the gym being burned down. Joss' original concept that was betrayed by the producers. In a way, we can thank Donald Sutherland for the TV show. He's often credited for being the one to make most of the suggestions to Fran Rubel Kazui that ended up ruining the movie from Joss' original concept, and since Fran had no backbone and at the time Donald Sutherland had much more influence than Joss Whedon, he got his way. Anyhow, just think -- if Donald Sutherland hadn't ruined the Buffy movie, it's entirely likely that Joss might have been satisfied with the final product enough that he might have never been motivated to make the TV series. We'd have one good movie instead of seven great years of television. Thanks, Donald! And an oh by the way -- SMG said in interviews that when she told Keifer Sutherland that she had won the lead in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, his response was akin to, "I think my dad was in that movie. Don't worry -- you're talented. You should get another pilot offer next year, after this one gets canned."
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:17:05 GMT -5
//There really wasn't a lot of plot cross-over this season between Buffy and Angel (except for Willow to L.A. and Angel briefly at the end). Otherwise, the two camps didn't really appear to be aware of what was happening at the other locations.// And that really bothered me, too. Two attempts at world domination by seemingly unlinked evil entities? I just had a tough time buying that all of the sudden, these two powers rose up wanting each to take over the world, and yet neither had anything to do with the other. That, and Willow couldn't feel Jasmine's coming or the Beast, only the opening of the Hellmouth. And like you said, at no point did anyone call the other up and compare notes -- Willow apparently didn't even mention to anyone but Faith that there was some real crap going down in Sunnydale while she was in Los Angeles (Faith even mentioned to Angel about Willow making it sound like she was needed more in Sunnydale, and Angel never questioned, "Really? What on Earth is going on down there?"). It was quite clear in the finale that Angel didn't know Buffy was dealing with TFE until after he read the file Lilah gave him, and then he handled it quite well, considering she never asked his help and he already had first-hand experience with TFE. I guess the lack of any crossovers is one of the reasons why I still hold on to the belief that Jasmine was an incredibly misguided entity hoping to do good, that her timing was intended to destroy free will -- that is, the capability of mankind to do evil -- and therefore take away the First Evil's power, except that Angel stopped Jasmine so therefore Buffy had to stop TFE herself. As long as I think of it like that, it just makes more sense to me.
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 16:18:06 GMT -5
//I had to sell my soul. But, turns out there's quite a market, so there was no problem. // I considered selling my soul once. But I was really dissapointed at the bids for it, considering the thing has never been used...
David Crenshaw
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