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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 29, 2006 15:31:47 GMT -5
So, did anyone else think that one of the reasons Kara demanded that Gaeta beg for his life was to give the jury a reason not to execute him? Not really. If that's what she wanted, I think she would have been more direct about it. Seemed more like she was mocking him.
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Post by fish1941 on Oct 30, 2006 10:58:30 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com:
"After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."
What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this.
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Post by Rachael on Oct 30, 2006 11:10:24 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Did you even watch the show? Or are you basing your opinion solely on the wiki summary? Because if you didn't even see the show, your opinion about the plot and storytelling isn't relevant, to me, at least. I do wonder, with others, why you continue to watch and comment (bitterly) on a show about which you can't seem to find anything positive to say. We follow lots of shows, here - it seems to me you could find one that you actually enjoy and where you can contribute to the discussion in a more moderated way. The unremittingly negative posts you make in this thread don't generate much in the way of discussion. Not saying that criticism isn't acceptable; if you read the thread, you'll see that many of us are critical about aspects of the show. However, you're the only one who never has anything good to say about BSG.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 30, 2006 11:23:02 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. I think it would have been interesting either way. I expect there to be just as many challenges now that Roslin has resumed the presidency than if she hadn't.
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Post by fish1941 on Oct 30, 2006 11:54:45 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Did you even watch the show? Or are you basing your opinion solely on the wiki summary? Because if you didn't even see the show, your opinion about the plot and storytelling isn't relevant, to me, at least. I do wonder, with others, why you continue to watch and comment (bitterly) on a show about which you can't seem to find anything positive to say. We follow lots of shows, here - it seems to me you could find one that you actually enjoy and where you can contribute to the discussion in a more moderated way. The unremittingly negative posts you make in this thread don't generate much in the way of discussion. Not saying that criticism isn't acceptable; if you read the thread, you'll see that many of us are critical about aspects of the show. However, you're the only one who never has anything good to say about BSG. I had watched the show. And my opinion stands. I had used the Wikipedia.com quote to focus upon what I was talking about. I hoped to see how Tom Zarek would finally deal with the presidency, but that chance has been robbed. Unless Ron Moore decides to finally offer a glimpse, sometime before the series ends.
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Post by Rachael on Oct 30, 2006 12:02:30 GMT -5
Did you even watch the show? Or are you basing your opinion solely on the wiki summary? Because if you didn't even see the show, your opinion about the plot and storytelling isn't relevant, to me, at least. I do wonder, with others, why you continue to watch and comment (bitterly) on a show about which you can't seem to find anything positive to say. We follow lots of shows, here - it seems to me you could find one that you actually enjoy and where you can contribute to the discussion in a more moderated way. The unremittingly negative posts you make in this thread don't generate much in the way of discussion. Not saying that criticism isn't acceptable; if you read the thread, you'll see that many of us are critical about aspects of the show. However, you're the only one who never has anything good to say about BSG. I had watched the show. And my opinion stands. I had used the Wikipedia.com quote to focus upon what I was talking about. I hoped to see how Tom Zarek would finally deal with the presidency, but that chance has been robbed. Unless Ron Moore decides to finally offer a glimpse, sometime before the series ends. Tom has undergone some character development in the past few months, and he now realizes that he doesn't want to be president for the long term, IMO. He'd make a bad President, as the Circle incident illustrates. Secret courts with the authority to put people out an airlock without any representation aren't an indication of good leadership for a democracy. And he knows this, too. Roslin is better for the people. As Liz pointed out upthread, Roslin has now been made president twice without ever being elected. THAT'S the conflict that I predict we're headed for. It IS too easy - and that's the point. I expect a bit of resistance to her presidency for just those reasons. You are welcome to your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that it might carry more weight in the community if you expressed it in a less aggressive, more conversational way. Speaking only for myself, I tend to disregard opinions coming from someone who never has anything pleasant to say.
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Post by Shan on Oct 30, 2006 12:55:57 GMT -5
I had watched the show. And my opinion stands. I had used the Wikipedia.com quote to focus upon what I was talking about. I hoped to see how Tom Zarek would finally deal with the presidency, but that chance has been robbed. Unless Ron Moore decides to finally offer a glimpse, sometime before the series ends. Tom has undergone some character development in the past few months, and he now realizes that he doesn't want to be president for the long term, IMO. He'd make a bad President, as the Circle incident illustrates. Secret courts with the authority to put people out an airlock without any representation aren't an indication of good leadership for a democracy. And he knows this, too. Roslin is better for the people. As Liz pointed out upthread, Roslin has now been made president twice without ever being elected. THAT'S the conflict that I predict we're headed for. It IS too easy - and that's the point. I expect a bit of resistance to her presidency for just those reasons. You are welcome to your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that it might carry more weight in the community if you expressed it in a less aggressive, more conversational way. Speaking only for myself, I tend to disregard opinions coming from someone who never has anything pleasant to say. Oh, that makes me think of something. How could Laura just hand over the Vice Presidency to Tom like that? Did I miss something? <edit> Oh, yeah. I guess I did, what with Tom naming Laura VP first. Is that the way they did it before, during the election? Were they elected separately or did they run on the same ticket or what?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 30, 2006 13:19:48 GMT -5
RE: the presidency, have they ever said how long a presidential term is? And how many terms some one can serve as president back to back?
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Post by Vlad on Oct 30, 2006 13:25:12 GMT -5
Tom has undergone some character development in the past few months, and he now realizes that he doesn't want to be president for the long term, IMO. He'd make a bad President, as the Circle incident illustrates. Secret courts with the authority to put people out an airlock without any representation aren't an indication of good leadership for a democracy. And he knows this, too. Roslin is better for the people. As Liz pointed out upthread, Roslin has now been made president twice without ever being elected. THAT'S the conflict that I predict we're headed for. It IS too easy - and that's the point. I expect a bit of resistance to her presidency for just those reasons. You are welcome to your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that it might carry more weight in the community if you expressed it in a less aggressive, more conversational way. Speaking only for myself, I tend to disregard opinions coming from someone who never has anything pleasant to say. Oh, that makes me think of something. How could Laura just hand over the Vice Presidency to Tom like that? Did I miss something? <edit> Oh, yeah. I guess I did, what with Tom naming Laura VP first. Is that the way they did it before, during the election? Were they elected separately or did they run on the same ticket or what? during a time of crisis, Roslin appointed her first VP. Later, during the elections, the VP was picked by the presidential nominee to run alongside the candidate on the ticket. They pretty much seem to handle it like they would in the US...all the way to Roslin orginally becoming president as part of a string of cabinent successors. I like the fact that they do this. It feels natural since its the system that most US viewers grew up with and understand. Vlad
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 30, 2006 13:29:57 GMT -5
Tom has undergone some character development in the past few months, and he now realizes that he doesn't want to be president for the long term, IMO. He'd make a bad President, as the Circle incident illustrates. Secret courts with the authority to put people out an airlock without any representation aren't an indication of good leadership for a democracy. And he knows this, too. Roslin is better for the people. As Liz pointed out upthread, Roslin has now been made president twice without ever being elected. THAT'S the conflict that I predict we're headed for. It IS too easy - and that's the point. I expect a bit of resistance to her presidency for just those reasons. You are welcome to your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that it might carry more weight in the community if you expressed it in a less aggressive, more conversational way. Speaking only for myself, I tend to disregard opinions coming from someone who never has anything pleasant to say. Oh, that makes me think of something. How could Laura just hand over the Vice Presidency to Tom like that? Did I miss something? <edit> Oh, yeah. I guess I did, what with Tom naming Laura VP first. Is that the way they did it before, during the election? Were they elected separately or did they run on the same ticket or what? During the election, Baltar chose Zarek as his running mate. Roslin chose ?? as her running mate (did she have anyone?). This also makes me think: we know that Zarek refused to go along with the puppet government, so he was jailed during the Occupation, but what about during the year before when Baltar was running things into the ground, with only Gaeta trying to keep things running?
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Post by fish1941 on Oct 30, 2006 16:28:15 GMT -5
It just seems like a copout to restore Roslin to her original position. Perhaps there will be some kind of consequence from this down the road. I hope so. For Moore's sake.
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA is a pretty good show, but I have been experiencing a lot of disappointment in how the story arcs are being handled, lately. It all started with the arrival of the Pegasus. The only story arc I'm not disappointed with is the consequence of Roslin stealing Boomer and Helo's baby away from them.
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Post by Karen on Oct 30, 2006 16:33:52 GMT -5
RE: the presidency, have they ever said how long a presidential term is? And how many terms some one can serve as president back to back? I don't think they've discussed that. I assume it's the same as what they had on the planets. Whatever that was.
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Post by Karen on Oct 30, 2006 16:35:50 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Huh. Interesting interpretation. My take on it is that it is Moore's way of showing us that Adama is the real power behind the leadership. It's not about Roslin at all. It's about Adama.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:33:20 GMT -5
So, did anyone else think that one of the reasons Kara demanded that Gaeta beg for his life was to give the jury a reason not to execute him? Ooh, yeah, I definitely thought that was part of her motivation. Well, that and she just was feeling very very very angry.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:39:47 GMT -5
So, did anyone else think that one of the reasons Kara demanded that Gaeta beg for his life was to give the jury a reason not to execute him? I think that was one of the reasons. I also think that she was angry at herself for showing weakness to the enemy in order to save Kacey and for being played like she was and she took it out on Gaeta. She, more than any of them on the death squad jury, knew from experience that even the strongest and loyal of soldiers can have a weakness that will cause them to collaborate with the enemy. There reasons for doing so are as varied as we have seen in BSG. Ellen - did it to save Saul (and would keep doing whatever it took), Jammer - because he thought he could do more good from the inside (Angel at W&H?) - only up to the point where his friend was in danger, and Gaeta collaborated as a loyal aid to Baltar, fed information to the insurgents when he could. All choices that humans make in a time of war. They fight according to what they can tolerate. (Saul would have died rather than collaborate, Ellen would have collaborated and sold her soul rather than have Saul die - 2 extremes.) Kara's weakness was a child - specifically, hers. To save her child, she was willing to finally give in and tell Leoben that she loved him. Of course, it didn't mean a thing to her - I hope - but it was a surrender in principle - and a show of weakness. I also think that she was fed-up with the war in general and vengeance, in particular - and her first comment when asked to be on the jury was that she assumed it was illegal. (She is afterall, Adama's protegee - and he had the same reaction to Zarack's death squad decree.) She votes guilty - has a discussion with her husband about wanting to hurt him, kisses him goodbye, and then is faced with a noble Gaeta who refuses to beg for his life. She beats on him because she - at that point - realizes what he told her in the caffeteria is probably true, and also knows that he needs to be the one to tell them. It was a turning point for Kara. Like Onjel said, a start to being made whole again. Wow - I really like the way you laid out all the different perspectives. Ellen and Saul, Jammer, Gaeta, etc.
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