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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:46:49 GMT -5
So, did anyone else think that one of the reasons Kara demanded that Gaeta beg for his life was to give the jury a reason not to execute him? No. I thought it was to give herself a reason not to execute him. Yes, that too. I guess I can see the group aspect by the timing of her actions. Just as the group has made their decision and is leaving - ready to airlock him. So I think her actions were for herself and for the group. And because she was likely feeling conflicting feelings - part of her just wanting to hurt him physically (not just a clean airlocking, she wanted to inflict some hurt with her own hands) and part of her feeling "this is Gaeta, someone I served with, someone I know, we can't just do this, but how do I justify these feelings".
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:49:27 GMT -5
So, did anyone else think that one of the reasons Kara demanded that Gaeta beg for his life was to give the jury a reason not to execute him? No, unfortunately: I think she was taking her rage out on yet another person who failed to help her for the four months when she was held in solitary with Leoben. I think she was mocking him, and hurting him, and trying to actually break Gaeta down the way she was finally broken down at the end, by Leoben. I don't think there was any doubt in her but that he should die for his crimes. She just wanted to destroy something. Revenge. Oh, I definitely think this aspect was there too. I think it was all mixed up in a messy icky bunch of conflicting emotions and thoughts.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:56:16 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Hmmmmm. I don't think I'd take Wiki's description here as the full explanation of what happened. It seemed much more messy and complicated in the ep I watched. First, Zarek considered President by default because Baltar betrayed the humans. Then, realising that he probably won't be able to hold onto the job once they are organized back into the full fleet, he works out a way that he thinks will get him a place at the table. Appoint Roslin as his VP and then resign, making a deal with her to keep him involved in the government - a back door deal, as it were. His mistake was thinking that setting up the secret court and thus "keeping Roslin's hands clean" would work. IMHO, she's the kind of person who would prefer that if hands need to be dirty, she's gonna take her lumps and have it be her hands. Anyway, I liked it - it seemed realistically messy and sloppy and complex, like real humans. Plus, it leaves us with more intriguing political possibilities in the future. When do they next feel they can hold actual elections again, for example?
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 17:57:47 GMT -5
I had watched the show. And my opinion stands. I had used the Wikipedia.com quote to focus upon what I was talking about. I hoped to see how Tom Zarek would finally deal with the presidency, but that chance has been robbed. Unless Ron Moore decides to finally offer a glimpse, sometime before the series ends. Tom has undergone some character development in the past few months, and he now realizes that he doesn't want to be president for the long term, IMO. He'd make a bad President, as the Circle incident illustrates. Secret courts with the authority to put people out an airlock without any representation aren't an indication of good leadership for a democracy. And he knows this, too. Roslin is better for the people. As Liz pointed out upthread, Roslin has now been made president twice without ever being elected. THAT'S the conflict that I predict we're headed for. It IS too easy - and that's the point. I expect a bit of resistance to her presidency for just those reasons. You are welcome to your opinion. I'm simply pointing out that it might carry more weight in the community if you expressed it in a less aggressive, more conversational way. Speaking only for myself, I tend to disregard opinions coming from someone who never has anything pleasant to say. Hmmm. I can't decide if Zarek doesn't want to be president, or just thinks he wouldn't be able to pull it off, or both.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 30, 2006 18:00:33 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Huh. Interesting interpretation. My take on it is that it is Moore's way of showing us that Adama is the real power behind the leadership. It's not about Roslin at all. It's about Adama. Or at least a very very important partner. Which is sort of logical in the scenario they are in - fleeing, still engaging in battles, etc. You have a much stronger partnership between the military and the civilian government. With, of course, pushing and pulling and arguments over turf and so on. Which I bet will re-emerge as an issue once again.
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Post by Shan on Oct 30, 2006 20:12:10 GMT -5
Huh. Interesting interpretation. My take on it is that it is Moore's way of showing us that Adama is the real power behind the leadership. It's not about Roslin at all. It's about Adama. Or at least a very very important partner. Which is sort of logical in the scenario they are in - fleeing, still engaging in battles, etc. You have a much stronger partnership between the military and the civilian government. With, of course, pushing and pulling and arguments over turf and so on. Which I bet will re-emerge as an issue once again. Which, I bet, is the point of Laura getting the presidency again the way she did, but with military backing this time. More fallout. Which is why we continue to watch the stories unfold, eh?
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Post by Onjel on Oct 30, 2006 21:07:22 GMT -5
From Wikipedia.com: "After the fleet was reunited after the escape from New Caprica, Tom Zarek became President. Zarek, under pressure from Admiral Adama, agreed to name Laura Roslin as his Vice President and then resign."What the HELL is this? This is Ronald Moore's way of getting Laura Roslin to be president again? How lame is this? Good grief! No wonder my opinion of the show is going down the tubes. Moore is resorting to a lame plot device to return the situation back to what it used to be before New Caprica. Now I know I'm wasting my time with this show. I would have prefer to see Roslin struggle to resume her old post instead of this easy way out. Unfortunately, Moore obviously didn't have the patience to allow this. Huh. Interesting interpretation. My take on it is that it is Moore's way of showing us that Adama is the real power behind the leadership. It's not about Roslin at all. It's about Adama. I like this take! It makes perfect sense to me and I expect we'll be seeing a lot of interesting consequences and disputes with this move.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 2, 2006 14:18:44 GMT -5
OK, I did some recon, mostly for my own curiousity, I guess.
*Population at the beginning of Lay Down Your Burdens II was 49,550.
*Population of New Caprica after 1 year of settlement was 39,192. (You have to factor in the nuke that Gina set off in addition to the conditions on the planet. Also, there are approximately 2000 people who remained on the ships in orbit and I don't think that they were included in this number. The possibility of a baby boom should probably also be factored in.)
*Population in this episode is 41,435.
My guess is that most of the drop can be accounted for by the explosion.
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Post by fish1941 on Nov 2, 2006 18:43:41 GMT -5
Huh. Interesting interpretation. My take on it is that it is Moore's way of showing us that Adama is the real power behind the leadership. It's not about Roslin at all. It's about Adama. I like this take! It makes perfect sense to me and I expect we'll be seeing a lot of interesting consequences and disputes with this move. Or maybe they'll forget it, just as the writers had forgotten the whole mutiny against Roslin scenario. There was never really any backlash or consequences from that little story arc. I wish I could say that BSG is a well written show, but I don't really think it is. Yes, it has excellent acting and a gritty style that is rare in science-fiction (Science-Fiction Meets WWII), but the show's writing prevents it from being exceptional. Which is too bad. I think that the media and the fans are more or less blinded by the show's grittiness and acting. After watching ST:DS9 and BSG, I can see that Ron Moore is really not that effective in writing serialized drama.
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Post by Karen on Nov 2, 2006 19:10:03 GMT -5
I like this take! It makes perfect sense to me and I expect we'll be seeing a lot of interesting consequences and disputes with this move. Or maybe they'll forget it, just as the writers had forgotten the whole mutiny against Roslin scenario. There was never really any backlash or consequences from that little story arc. I wish I could say that BSG is a well written show, but I don't really think it is. Yes, it has excellent acting and a gritty style that is rare in science-fiction (Science-Fiction Meets WWII), but the show's writing prevents it from being exceptional. Which is too bad. I think that the media and the fans are more or less blinded by the show's grittiness and acting. After watching ST:DS9 and BSG, I can see that Ron Moore is really not that effective in writing serialized drama. Huh. And still you watch it. He must be doing something right.
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Post by Shan on Nov 3, 2006 13:32:40 GMT -5
Or maybe they'll forget it, just as the writers had forgotten the whole mutiny against Roslin scenario. There was never really any backlash or consequences from that little story arc. I wish I could say that BSG is a well written show, but I don't really think it is. Yes, it has excellent acting and a gritty style that is rare in science-fiction (Science-Fiction Meets WWII), but the show's writing prevents it from being exceptional. Which is too bad. I think that the media and the fans are more or less blinded by the show's grittiness and acting. After watching ST:DS9 and BSG, I can see that Ron Moore is really not that effective in writing serialized drama. Huh. And still you watch it. He must be doing something right. #bid#
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