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Post by Queen E on Jun 22, 2004 20:11:52 GMT -5
You asked for it - this is your fault!! Buffy’s dream/nightmare from the start of Welcome to the Hellmouth: Pool of blood Master’s underground lair with someone holding a torch Skull (just for a frame or so, you don’t really see it unless you are going frame by frame, um, like dorky me) Master’s underground lair with someone holding a torch Graveyard at night, then in daytime A stone angel from a grave marker (overlaying Buffy’s face – she moves restlessly in her sleep) A different stone angel standing on top of a headstone The Master in his lair – image intermingling with the graveyard scene Skull A dancing Hindu Goddess or God – probably Shiva? I didn’t look long enough to verify. The Master in his lair raising his arms up slowly and overdramatically - well, that's the Master all right Skull A mummy hand punching out of a sarcophagus and making kind of grabby, clawing motions, overlaying Buffy’s sleeping face, like it was clawing at her (hee hee, even tho’ it was creepy I still giggled … ‘ cuz, duh! Mummy hand!) ;D Tentacle-ly creepy wormy thing Guy lighting a torch, seen from behind so you can’t see who, but for some reason I say “Giles” Master’s hand drawing a knife thing A horned demon face turning toward us with glowy red eyes – frankly it looked like a Fyaral demon to me The Master’s hand holding the knife thing, superimposed over Buffy’s sleeping face so it looks like the knife is at her throat (then she is shown stirring in her sleep) Tentacle-ly creepy wormy thing again OMG is this the mock apocalypsy thing from the Zeppo?! Hand that looks like the Master’s reaching for a smallish wooden cross The Vampyre book cover Woodcut drawings of medieval people with a cauldron and a demon guy reaching out his hand and a line of fire coming from it – the one we see Giles looking at later in the ep Buffy’s cross in a box that Angel will give her later in the ep A bunch of vamps walking through the night – not the same scene as later in the ep – it’s a larger bunch – all kind of silhouetted against a kind of foggy night sky Tentacle-ly creepy wormy thing again and the Master’s hand A grave marked with the name Van Der Lohe The pool of blood again A vamp face A clawed hand – not the master’s hand, bigger and more demony – resting on top of someone’s head – dark haired – not like it was gonna hurt the person, but like it was placing the hand there gently The arm of a chair, looked like the Master’s chair – yeah, just the curvy arm of the chair – and it went on for a bunch of frames – what’s up with that? The graveyard again – looking like daytime Then a montage: the vamp faces we’ll see at the end of the ep, then Buffy stirring in her sleep with a shadow looming over her bed, then vamps again, then Buffy, etc. etc. with the vamp scene going all tilty and twisty and then the Master’s face looking off to the side and then turning to look right at us – there’s a growl and Buffy wakes up. Whew. OK, just how geeky am I?! Really, really, really geeky. I soooooo hope that this turns out to have been worth it – the rest of you better find all kinds of subtle nuance and so on. Not just the obvious, “duh that’s what happens this season” stuff I am seeing right now. Lola A stone angel from a grave marker (overlaying Buffy’s face – she moves restlessly in her sleep) A different stone angel standing on top of a headstone: Angels; foreshadowing Angel as vampire, dead thingTentacle-ly creepy wormy thing First thing out of the hellmouth in "Prophecy Girl" and "The Zeppo"A horned demon face turning toward us with glowy red eyes – frankly it looked like a Fyaral demon to me: MolochTentacle-ly creepy wormy thing again OMG is this the mock apocalypsy thing from the Zeppo?! It is, and from "Prophecy Girl" A bunch of vamps walking through the night – not the same scene as later in the ep – it’s a larger bunch – all kind of silhouetted against a kind of foggy night sky Also from Prophecy Girl, what Jenny and Willow see coming toward them as the Hellmouth starts a-brewing\A clawed hand – not the master’s hand, bigger and more demony – resting on top of someone’s head – dark haired – not like it was gonna hurt the person, but like it was placing the hand there gently That's Moloch again, in the 15th century, to one of his followers, right before he snaps his neck
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 20:15:07 GMT -5
So, first (semi-novel, for me, on what must be sixth or seventh viewing) impressions: What if Buffy had said "vampires" instead of "asbestos" to Principal Flutie? Do you think he knew? Had any idea, at all, about the Hellmouth? Or is that why he got dead so easily, because he didn't know? Angel: "To kill 'em. Kill 'em all." Sound at all familiar? Willow apparently had no fashion sense, at all, at this stage - if we assume she started the conversation with Debarge vamp. Or else, she didn't care, even a little, that he was wearing clothes a decade or more out of style. I'm fairly certain that Darla's character just wasn't well-established yet, because later Darla will be much more powerful and knowledgable. Darla has to know what a Slayer is - Angel(us) mentioned it to Spike in front of her. And she was there the day Spike killed his first one. Here, Buffy easily gets the better of Darla, although she has all sorts of trouble with Luke. Makes no sense, in light of what we know later about Darla. Finally, Luke's speechifying - one of the things that I came to appreciate about this show (later) is that mostly, people didn't get to make big, sweeping speeches without falling into an open grave or getting tasered, or whatever. (Notable exception: Buffy in S7 : Luke talks entirely too much.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 20:17:18 GMT -5
And my dork giggle for the day: "Do you have Mr. Chomsky for history?" (veiled reference to Noam Chomsky?) Wow. That was a good school.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 20:20:18 GMT -5
Wow. Reading thru this thread, I've pretty much crossed off everything from my notes. A couple leftovers.. Is Willow wearing the same outfit this first day that shes wearing in her nightmare in Restless? Yup, I think she is.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 20:24:41 GMT -5
Suddenly wondering about what it would have been like to see the teaser to WTTHM completely unspoiled, without even the promos and TV Guide coverage and maybe think that the little blonde in the school uniform was Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, herself. Since I saw WTTHM after most of Season 4 and all of Season 5 and the reruns of Season 6 and part of Season 7, what I noticed was how perky Buddy was, how strange Giles was, and how Willow and Xander had grown beyond their jokie sidekickery. And how DISMALLLY BAD the technical qualities of S.1 were, especially the grainy and unsaturated night scenes. Julia, first volley Well, I saw it that way. I noticed a commercial maybe two days before the pilot, and I was a lonely first-year graduate student with no one to talk to that night, so I tuned in. And not once did I think Darla was Buffy - but then, I don't think I was analyzing on any level yet - I was just letting the experience wash over me. I remember loving that the high school library was a dark, scary place, and just hating Cordelia with a passion, and wondering what Willow saw in Xander. . .and thinking Giles was maybe the hottest thing on television since forever.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 22, 2004 20:30:51 GMT -5
And, sadly... I've actually used it myself. *smacks herself around* ROFL!!!!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 22, 2004 20:34:36 GMT -5
So, first (semi-novel, for me, on what must be sixth or seventh viewing) impressions: Angel: "To kill 'em. Kill 'em all." Sound at all familiar? . oh my gosh! GREAT catch! Joss has a scary brain. Or else he viewed ep one again too.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 22, 2004 21:02:37 GMT -5
Well, I saw it that way. I noticed a commercial maybe two days before the pilot, and I was a lonely first-year graduate student with no one to talk to that night, so I tuned in. And not once did I think Darla was Buffy - but then, I don't think I was analyzing on any level yet - I was just letting the experience wash over me. I remember loving that the high school library was a dark, scary place, and just hating Cordelia with a passion, and wondering what Willow saw in Xander. . .and thinking Giles was maybe the hottest thing on television since forever. See, and I saw the pilot and watched basically out of revenge, since I really didn't think the movie warranted being made into a series. It was one of those, "Oh, man, gotta see this train wreck."
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Post by Rachael on Jun 22, 2004 23:30:48 GMT -5
See, and I saw the pilot and watched basically out of revenge, since I really didn't think the movie warranted being made into a series. It was one of those, "Oh, man, gotta see this train wreck." Hmm. I thought similarly, yet different. I had thought the movie had potential, and been wildly disappointed, so I hoped that the series would do better.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 23, 2004 5:55:33 GMT -5
A stone angel from a grave marker (overlaying Buffy’s face – she moves restlessly in her sleep) A different stone angel standing on top of a headstone: Angels; foreshadowing Angel as vampire, dead thingTentacle-ly creepy wormy thing First thing out of the hellmouth in "Prophecy Girl" and "The Zeppo"A horned demon face turning toward us with glowy red eyes – frankly it looked like a Fyaral demon to me: MolochTentacle-ly creepy wormy thing again OMG is this the mock apocalypsy thing from the Zeppo?! It is, and from "Prophecy Girl" A bunch of vamps walking through the night – not the same scene as later in the ep – it’s a larger bunch – all kind of silhouetted against a kind of foggy night sky Also from Prophecy Girl, what Jenny and Willow see coming toward them as the Hellmouth starts a-brewing\A clawed hand – not the master’s hand, bigger and more demony – resting on top of someone’s head – dark haired – not like it was gonna hurt the person, but like it was placing the hand there gently That's Moloch again, in the 15th century, to one of his followers, right before he snaps his neckThanks for reminding me about Prophecy Girl - I'd forgotten about tentacle-y thing in that one. I wonder why big slimy tentacle-y things weren't showing up in later Apocalypse's? (Apocali?) Was there just one and they really killed it dead for real in The Zeppo? And Moloch - how could I forget about Moloch! Just goes to show that re-watching early seasons every now and then is a good idea, eh? And maybe the stirring in her sleep with the stone angel superimposed over her in bed is also showing a flash of her future of sleeping with Angel and all the not good that comes of that. Lola
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Post by Queen E on Jun 23, 2004 8:19:46 GMT -5
Thanks for reminding me about Prophecy Girl - I'd forgotten about tentacle-y thing in that one. I wonder why big slimy tentacle-y things weren't showing up in later Apocalypse's? (Apocali?) Was there just one and they really killed it dead for real in The Zeppo? And Moloch - how could I forget about Moloch! Just goes to show that re-watching early seasons every now and then is a good idea, eh? And maybe the stirring in her sleep with the stone angel superimposed over her in bed is also showing a flash of her future of sleeping with Angel and all the not good that comes of that. Lola I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, question for you: Is it frightening or charming that all those answers were from memory?
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Post by Joshua Adams on Jun 23, 2004 8:45:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Now, question for you: Is it frightening or charming that all those answers were from memory? I vote: Charming.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 23, 2004 8:53:56 GMT -5
Well, I saw it that way. I noticed a commercial maybe two days before the pilot, and I was a lonely first-year graduate student with no one to talk to that night, so I tuned in. And not once did I think Darla was Buffy - but then, I don't think I was analyzing on any level yet - I was just letting the experience wash over me. I remember loving that the high school library was a dark, scary place, and just hating Cordelia with a passion, and wondering what Willow saw in Xander. . .and thinking Giles was maybe the hottest thing on television since forever. I had nearly the same experience - I saw ads on Channel 5 and was intrigued enough to watch. Instantly hooked, I was. I knew Buffy was Buffy because her mom dropped her off at the school. I liked the Buffy-Willow instant of connection, I remember, and the wonderful library, and hated Cordelia. And absolutely right there with you on the instant hottness of Giles, although I did not of course admit it to Paul.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 23, 2004 9:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 23, 2004 13:35:33 GMT -5
Okay. This being the first episode the task at hand is to set up the world for us, tell us exactly what is important and what is going on. If they are doing their job right then in these first two episodes we get a quick summary of what BtVS is going to be about.
Opening shot is on exterior of Sunnydale High School, with the name writ nice and clear. So, this is an important place. Next we see the Library. Both of these are lit well enough we can see what is what, but dark enough to feel dark. Plus, spooky music with heartbeat.
Then the classroom, or rather a fade to darkness with skeleton that moves around until you can see enough odd looking shadows to figure it is a classroom. So, school with skeletons and spooks. Change view again and yet more skeletons. Bones lit up white when everything else is shadows. I rather like this.
The blinds are the horizontal stripe kind, which is common in big buildings, but also gives a nice light and dark effect. Striking. In Angel season 5 they used the blinds to keep the various characters shadowed to different degrees but not fully in darkness. To show the mixed good & bad of the stuff they were mixed up in. I dont know if BtVS is ever that subtle but it means I've ended up noticing blinds. (also I have a whole essay on the word blind that got out of control due to too much data, but that unlikely to be relevant).
Its a science lab. Microscope. But old fashioned microscope. Still, science. And into this haven of rationality- crash! Glass go smash, boundaries broken, stuff you only see can come and get you now. (the preponderance of windows in AtS5 made me think a lot about glass too).
We all know the next scene. Its iconic. Cute little blonde girl being led into trouble by big dumb guy. Turns out is the guy in trouble.
Darla's a great actress. Also JB, but Darla is all with the stutter and scared act. She must love it, to bother when theres no one else around but her victim. Makes any apparent inconsistencies in her character not bother me, because obviously she gets into the act.
They are right outside the library when she goes grrr. So right up front the school is the place monsters break into, and the library is where things happen.
No morph but some nice sound effects. Ive seen that scene without the grrr and its way less scary. But the grr and the makeup make me jump. WEll, only a little now I have the thing memorised, but you know what I mean. The makeup is interesting too. We get to see it for all of two seconds but its so obviously not human it makes enough impact.
They cover a whole lot of the good stuff before the opening credits. All hail the writer who knows what he is doing.
Everyone looks all young again. Rounder. Its peculiar. (I have this whole conceptual problem with the passage of time. It always surprises me. Yes I know this is strange. But now we are watching the before times and its all different. meep.)
Giles pretty. This is fun to notice every single time I watch a Giles episode.
Buffy in bed- all white and light. Theres shadow, but not the solid black shadow, just fuzzy grey. Add the blonde and she's all shiny. The only place there is a hard shadow line is across her face and over her head, like the reverse of a halo. Then we get into her head, and is not so shiny there. Lots of flickery lights, lots of heavy darkness. Blood and shadows and monsters. Once she wakes up the shadows are all around her but her face is well lit, she is in the light.
Her wallpaper is all stripy, vertical lines, and again theres the horizontal blinds in the window. Checkered in parts, mixed dark and light all over. Theres a big sloping roof bit looming over her bed making a nice deep shadow in the corner. And of course the not unpacked yet boxes and 'first day' telling us she only just got here.
Theres a whole movement thing going on about this first day. legs, people running, buses, bicycles, skates, and of course Xander on the skateboard. Makes a nice busy image but also its Buffy moving on, moving in to a new place, all that stuff.
The mom car looks more like a tank to me. Big dark heavy car.
The music when she's getting out the car is all about 'anti heroes'. hmmm.
Buffy's all white and blonde and brown. Matches her mom, brown. Matches Xander, white shirt brown pants. Willow more grey than brown.
So is Xander looking up Willow's skirt with the 'wanted to see' line?! Well, she is wearing tights, all white everywhere. Um, is it not hot to be dressed like that?
Xander has a slightly blue shirt under the white one. Willow has a slightly blue jumper tied round her waist. Color coded heroes!
And it isnt just coincidence cause mostly the background people are way more colorful.
Jesse isnt color coded to match. He is doomed.
Buffy's eye makeup is all colors. sorta purple. Not bruise purple exactly. Eye makeup is one of those things where fashions change a lot. I have to remember not to watch Blakes 7 before I try new colors or I end up looking... retro.
Xander has the really floppy hair this season. It isnt a good look on anyone, but certainly not on him. I guess they had to make the hottie look like a geek somehow. The bobbly texture on his shirt looks kinda odd too. But does help the white with a hint of white look not be too uniform.
Xander has a little medallion on. St Christophers? Not enough resolution to check.
Buffy has a little plastic ring thing on. Looks like a sweet. Probably break her finger if she punched anyone like that.
Cordy looks like the anti Buffy. Dark instead of light. But also kind of brown. Also green, which none of the other scoobies are today. matching and not.
see? its all about the clothes.
Buffy's skirt might be purple. Which would match the ring and the eyeshadow. But her boots and bag are definitely brown.
um, I'm not obsessed, I'm just looking at particular things.
okay, change focus, body language and proximity. (for some reason I can notice light and color with the sound on but have to turn the sound off to get much by way of body language. *shrugs* be strange)
Willow and Xander walk close enough to bump elbows. They walk next to each other, couple y. Then Jesse, who gets that close but backs off a bit, walks next to Xander, stays a bit in front. Willow moves up a little but Xander changes the angle he is standing at so they are still elbow to elbow but Jesse is off at an angle to the two of them.
Principal Flutie stays wide of her walking around the room and then sits on the other side of a desk. I note this for comparison purposes for later. Also, he is Mr Flutie, never just Flutie. Giles drops the Mr with the scoobies pretty quick.
Xander in the corridor with Buffy faces her and focuses on her but stays arms reach, not closer. Doesnt touch.
Cordelia touches Buffy to get her attention in class. Then theres a formal handshake introduction. Which seems to me to be part of Cordy putting herself in a higher social position. Forcing formality? And when she says she'll show Buffy where the library is she does this follow me wave that looks a bit like an order. I think. I'm not sure if knowing Cordy is influencing what I see in the gestures. When they walk down the corridor Buffy keeps her gaze more or less fixed on Cordy. Not in the staring way, drops eyes sometimes, but looking at her. Cordy glances to and away. So Buffy is listening and Cordy is only looking to check she is listening. They walk pretty close to each other but they arent lined up like WillowandXander. Buffy is always turned in to face Cordy, sometimes Cordy deigns to turn and face Buffy. She does this look down at her outfit that really doesnt need words. Buffy moves around quite a lot, moves her head side to side. I reckon playful and nervous supplicant, and Queen C. Cordelia again touches Buffy to say 'you passed'. All touching started by C, all gives me the impression she thinks she is entitled.
And Buffy is fine with this right up until C starts picking on Willow. Then change of face, less puppy movements, though still exaggerated nod and smile to show C she is listening.
I think Buffy moves a lot more in the early eps. Later she gets more contained, less wasted movement. Not that its wasted here, but it has more of a sense of fun. Little side to side head movements, leaning to the side to look in the window at the library. Off balance movements. Later she is more careful to keep balanced.
It just occured to me that since its all set dressing everything up to and including the 'Pitch in' sign on the bin is put there on purpose. Woah.
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