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Post by leftylady on Mar 17, 2008 17:17:22 GMT -5
And, the weirdness just keeps on coming. Talk about your WTFOMGBBQPOLARBEAR scenes. . .. Seriously, don't you mean WTFOMGBBQPANDABEAR We've had polar bears, teddy bears and now panda bears. Lost is getting beary, beary interesting. leftylady
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Mar 17, 2008 17:29:00 GMT -5
So. Having finally watched this episode - Singularly unsatisfying. Is it just me, or is there no real plan? So far, we've seen drunken!Jack desperately trying to get back to The Island, and together!Jack being all supportive of Kate, who apparently inherited Aaron from Claire (interesting that Kate is in both of Jack's futures), and asylum-bathrobe!Hurley and together-in-suit!Hurley (and didn't he clean up well). We've seen Sun and her baby, and we've been given possibly questionable evidence that Jin died at some point before the baby's birth. We've seen Assassin!Sayid, and we've seen Ben. As near as I can remember, based on this, we know five of the Oceanic 6 - Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid and Sun. I am not counting Aaron at this point, as my guess is that they're going by the flight manifest. I'm sure I've forgotten a lot more; anyone who cares to step in and add a few, please do. I have a theory. The Island is a nexus, or transit hub, for different possible future timelines. Maybe even past timelines, or complete timelines, which might explain the wreckage at the bottom of the ocean. Or not. So we're seeing multiple possible futures for various Losties. Or, the writers have been smoking something really interesting, or they have too many ideas and can't bear to choose just one, or Vincent has eaten their homework playbook and they no longer have a long-term plan, or indeed any plan whatsoever aside from "deluge the viewers with red herrings and hope they can't keep track". Anne, I knew it was going to be Michael Well, I don't know what to tell you. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before that almost from the beginning I've read numerous interviews in which the producers have insisted they know exactly where they're going with this story. They've also recently observed that finally having an end date has really fired them up creatively going into this year, as now they can decide exactly how and when to parcel out the plot twists, cliffhangers, and tidbits of information—before it was as if they were trying to write a book without any control over how many chapters it would be. As evidence, consider this: if they were still trying to stretch things out, uncertain as to how long their run would be, do you think we'd know who even half of the Oceanic 6 are by this point, much less be able to name for certain at least 5 of them? Somehow, I suspect not. I can also say this: to the best of my knowledge, neither Cuse or Lindelof have ever outright lied in an interview while discussing the show. They'll certainly be vague or offer cryptic clues if discussing a plot point that's being covered in a future episode, or even say "such-and-such a question is not going to be dealt with this season, but we will be addressing it in season 5." And after unequivocally stating some of the theories floating around out there are wrong, such as the one suggesting the Losties were in purgatory, they've never then turned around and aired an episode suggesting a theory they've debunked is indeed a valid possibility. Myself, I think we've seen too many bits and pieces from previous seasons later become relevant to ascribe it to mere chance or good fortune, so I tend to believe there is a master blueprint from which they're working as they tell the story—and like any good mystery writers, they're trying to dole out just enough information to keep a number of possibilities viable yet not enough so that we've guessed the ending several chapters before the actual reveal. Anyway, I think what it boils down to is this: either you take the producers at their word when they say they've got a plan, or not. Me, I believe them. As always though, YMMV, etc... Well, of course YMMV, and IMHO, and all those letters, it's in the S'cubie Creed. I guess, thinking about it, what really put me off was the manipulativeness (IMHO) of this episode - all those scenes that would leave those of us who don't know from cell phones to believe that Jin was rushing to the hospital to be with Sun, all those plaintive violins... and then they hit us with the truth. I felt so used. Besides, now that we can assume neither of the two married couples on the island is going to survive intact, based on what we've seen this season, what's the point in caring about any of those people? As episodes go, I felt that the Desmond-centric one was much more coherent and emotionally satisfying. We didn't learn that much more, if anything, but there was a payoff. It wasn't just emotional trickery. I want Desmond to return to his Penelope. I care about them. I'll hang on in hopes of that. Assume the IMHO, YMMV, you know the drill. Anne, I was burned by Chris Carter, I trust no one anymore
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Post by leftylady on Mar 17, 2008 17:40:25 GMT -5
Date of the crash does seem to indicate a cover up of some kind. Think about it. Everybody was declared dead in the "cover up", leaving their families to grieve, right? Isn't it logical to assume that the families made grave sites for their loved ones, whether or not the bodies were brought up from the ocean? So, that grave and date are probably the result of the families of Jin and probably Sun making graves for them because they were told they died. The date makes perfect sense if you look at it that way. Why make another grave? So, Jin could still be alive and on the island. I doubt it, but you never know with these guys. From what I've seen elsewhere, there are 3 dates: Jin's birthdate 11/27/1974 , Sun's birthdate in 1980 and date of death as the crash date. This marker could have been put up when the fake plane was found. It's not likely he would be in the 2 that died shortly after the crash of Jack's cover story/lie. So.... Jin may still be on the island with whomever Jack needs to return for or Jin may die before the official rescue. But I have great hopes that he's still out there. Someone is still alive on the island or there's no point in returning. They may be hostages to ensure the cover story sticks. Question: who do we think would be counted in the 2 initial survivors that died thereafter (Jack's cover story)? I'm thinking that one would have to be Claire (to live long enough to give birth to justify Aaron's rescue). Who else? other tidbits: Someone, I can't remember exectly where, reminded readers of the other Bad Robot show where a wife mourned at the grave of a man who was not really dead! And Vaughn was still alive and well. I loved the Wolfram & Hart company fishing trip. ;D Speaking of which: Karma and Ji Yeon I also saw that "Ji Yeon" means "Heavenly Patience". You definitely need to have heavenly patience - to forgive Sun, to complete your task of getting the right symbolic gift, to mourn the missing husband, to do the right thing, to become a better man, to get the good karma. And maybe that's why I think Jin'll still be alive when and if the O6 can return. leftylady
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 19:46:10 GMT -5
Teaser
Gina
Problem in the kitchen. Bet Ben's "man on the boat" is the cook. It's always the cook.
3 days since Sayid and Desmond left
Baby names. Aww...
Oh, bad luck to talk about baby names. So not "Aww..." then.
Ah, Ji Yeon as the baby's name.
Pregnant Sun, so flash forward then. Miscarriage?
Also, possibly one of the earliest flash forwards?
So is this a coincidence, or is it that being *conceived* on the island makes the pregnancies terminate?
Also, this makes Sun one of the Oceanic Six. Not that I wasn't spoiled for that or anything.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 19:53:45 GMT -5
Part I
Jin also made it off the island. Again, spoiled. ;D
He's looking for her in a toy store?
Oh, he doesn't know. Clever, music editor!
Panda bear! Would have been awesome if he got a polar bear.
Catching up on the events of the last episode.
Rescue looking doubtful.
Notes through the door grate.
So the spy with helping Desmond and Sayid. Following Ben's orders or acting as a double agent?
Do not trust the captain. Who's the captain.
Sun goes and investigates the Boat People. Yay, Sun!
Question of rescue not up to the Boat People.
Sun is a better teacher than Sawyer. No kidding!
Ohh, Sun wants to go to Locke's camp.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:01:37 GMT -5
Part II
Standoff between Sun and Juliet.
Juliet's lost the trust. Yeah, that's what happens when you lie and are evasive all the time.
Is there something up with this doctor? Like not on the up and up?
Wow, Jin's having a bad day. He's going to get run over, isn't he? Oh, guess not.
Wow, Jin really wants that panda. Huh?
Year of the Dragon. So what year would that be?
Juliet-Sun Standoff II
Three weeks deadline. So, they get off the island before then.
Juliet reveals Sun's affair. WHOA! Playing dirty there, Juliet.
Juliet gets slapped. Again.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:07:03 GMT -5
Part III
Oh, this is heart breaking.
Bernard unintentionally butts in.
Jin's devised some mean looking fishing gear.
Jin and Bernard are the only two married guys on the island. Interesting.
Pondering the complexities of married life.
Oh, they're in Kyle's boat.
About Rose's cancer. And why she wants to leave the island. Because it was the right thing to do, ie trusting Jack more than Locke.
You know karma? Um, hello, eastern philosophy?
We must be the good guys.
the helicopter is off running an errand.
Gina in chains. WTF? She's committing suicide? She's in a trance?
Is this the captain?
Captain Gulle(?)
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:16:11 GMT -5
Part IV
Cabin fever.
Saboteur's mucked up the engines.
Charles Widmore. So, that confirms Ben's story? Or most of it, at least.
Black box. The fake black box from the fake wreckage.
324 passengers total on the plane.
So... Widmore did not set up the fake wreckage?
So the body's look real. Real corpses They think Ben set it up. Well... I wouldn't put it past him.
Sun's future prospects.
So the baby is born healthily. Right?
Is the ship drifting into the warp barrier?
Cockroaches. Excellent. And blood splatter. Oh, goo
Michael is the janitor. So not a cook then. Unless he's doing double duty. ;D Kevin Johnson. He must be the saboteur. Not that I wasn't spoiled for it.
Unless Michael's helping and the saboteur is some one else.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:29:14 GMT -5
Coda
Jin brings a peace offering.
And makes up with Sun. This relationship is so moving.
Ohhhh, the panda is for Sun's dad. No wonder Jin was so panicky.
Oh, for Sun's dad's business alliance?
WHOA! Jin's married to some one else? Because of Sun's dad?
HURLEY!!
And Sun did indeed have a baby.
WHOA WAIT, WTF?
Jin faked his death? Is Sun in on it or not? WTF is going on?
I guess they're saying that Jin is one of the eight that survived the crash that didn't make it off the island?
1974-2004.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:30:17 GMT -5
At least he gave them a can opener.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:35:15 GMT -5
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:40:54 GMT -5
Oh, Sun! Oh, Jin! Oh, Bernard! Bernard, talk to Jin. Help those two crazy kids stay together. Oh, the intriguing mirror images of the two married guys. One's wife will die on the island. One will die (maybe) off it. Locke is a murderer. Karma. Whoa! "We must be the good guys." Whoa!! Talk about your meaningful fishing trips. Boat people again! "The Captain would like to eat see you now."Whoa!!! Suicide seems to be something not worth bothering about on this ship, then? Common event, maybe? Ooh, nice parallel.Hee!And the note said not to trust the captain, didn't it. But the captain seemed very straightforward and honest. So who do we believe?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:42:21 GMT -5
So, was she going crazy with the same stuff that Minkowski had? Sara said she basically acted out a scene from the book she was reading, in which one of the survivors of a shipwreck threw himself off the lifeboat in a fit of madness. Ohhh...
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:44:51 GMT -5
Sara said she basically acted out a scene from the book she was reading, in which one of the survivors of a shipwreck threw himself off the lifeboat in a fit of madness. Yeah. That's really really extreme cabin fever.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 17, 2008 20:46:54 GMT -5
Maybe. But if he's so desperate to get back to Juliet, why is he making googly eyes at Kate in the future? Because he's Jack!
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