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Post by Rachael on Aug 14, 2008 9:14:48 GMT -5
I dislike that The Doctor wiped all of Donna's memories of him and their experiences. I am not happy with that development. Nor am I happy that he is again, the "lonely guy at the top" of the evolutionary food chain. Part of my problem, and the biggest part by far, is the notion that someone else gets to make my life choices for me and making those choices for others runs a risk of empowering the chooser so much he or she becomes a very real danger. as liz pointed out in a post shortly before yours, he did the same thing with rose being appointed 'nursemaid' (as liz put it). sure, rose ended up being happy with the arrangement - but he didn't even *ask* her, just *ordered* her to do it. that is ... worrying. Well...that's The Doctor. In my memory, he never asks. He tells you to do things, and you do them, or else you don't. And "don't" usually has some unfortunate consequences. The new seasons have been more heavy-handed with it, but the "Doctor as Supreme Being" metaphor has always been there.
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Post by Rachael on Aug 14, 2008 9:19:54 GMT -5
but she also could have gone back to a life like sarah jane's and jack's have ended up - lives where they're living on earth, trying to help humanity, but aware of all that's out there. i don't see why it had to be an either/or with donna, but apparently the writers disagreed with me. Maybe the point is supposed to be that Donna needed to discover her internal amazing, not just because she was touched by something amazing. If one views it that way, then it's a stronger message, because it says: "I don't need to be touched by the 'divinity' of the doctor to be awesome. I am awesome in my own right." I mean, of the companions we've seen in the new series, Donna, in many ways, is the most proactive and certain of herself...Rose was SO young, and Martha was derailed by her attraction to the Doctor. Whereas Donna was older, had a sense of herself (not without some issues, mind), and didn't think to not question him when she felt he was going off the rails. Meeting him might have "activated" certain parts of her, but to say that everything special (or better) about Donna came from the Doctor is a mistake on her mother and grandfather's part, I think. Just because her memories of him have been removed doesn't mean that her essentials are changed beyond repair. I suppose only time will tell on that one. Hmm. I don't think we've seen the last of Donna Noble. I don't think so, either, though I think it will spoil the gorgeous poignancy of her "end". I disagree that the ending was a writer's construct to achieve an end for the actress. If that was true, they'd just have killed her. Really dead, not Jack dead. It's happened before; companions die. I thought the ending, though massively painful for me to watch, was beautiful storytelling. It was a tragedy, yes, but these aren't my characters, and if the writers want to write her out tragically, then they just have to do it well. I mean, contrast it with Rose, who (as I previously posted) got a fanfic AU-type ending. IMO, that's what happens when you care too much what the fans think about a story's ending. Her own human-hybrid, will-age-and-die-but-is-still-the-doctor Doctor? Please.
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Post by artemis on Sept 3, 2008 21:01:05 GMT -5
like sue, i calmed down about donna after having a little more time to think about it.
i think what bothered me so much about it is the same thing that bothered me so much about willow in S6 - i hate (hate, hate, hate) storylines where people mess with other peoples' memories. but you guys are right, that's just the way the Doctor is - he doesn't ask, he just does.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jul 20, 2010 13:31:00 GMT -5
like sue, i calmed down about donna after having a little more time to think about it. i think what bothered me so much about it is the same thing that bothered me so much about willow in S6 - i hate (hate, hate, hate) storylines where people mess with other peoples' memories. but you guys are right, that's just the way the Doctor is - he doesn't ask, he just does. Kitty and I just watched this episode (yeah, yeah, I know, late as usual) and we're both furious with the Doctor and the writer. I don't think I'll be watching this one again, at least for a while.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jul 20, 2010 13:32:55 GMT -5
but she also could have gone back to a life like sarah jane's and jack's have ended up - lives where they're living on earth, trying to help humanity, but aware of all that's out there. i don't see why it had to be an either/or with donna, but apparently the writers disagreed with me. Maybe the point is supposed to be that Donna needed to discover her internal amazing, not just because she was touched by something amazing. If one views it that way, then it's a stronger message, because it says: "I don't need to be touched by the 'divinity' of the doctor to be awesome. I am awesome in my own right." I mean, of the companions we've seen in the new series, Donna, in many ways, is the most proactive and certain of herself...Rose was SO young, and Martha was derailed by her attraction to the Doctor. Whereas Donna was older, had a sense of herself (not without some issues, mind), and didn't think to not question him when she felt he was going off the rails. Meeting him might have "activated" certain parts of her, but to say that everything special (or better) about Donna came from the Doctor is a mistake on her mother and grandfather's part, I think. Just because her memories of him have been removed doesn't mean that her essentials are changed beyond repair. I suppose only time will tell on that one. Hmm. I don't think we've seen the last of Donna Noble. You're right. Donna is amazing, the potential was always there, she needed the right person/circumstances to make her aware of her awesomeness. Which is probably part of why it hurt so much, too - the Doctor just took all that growth and self-awareness and self-confidence away when he took the memories, and put her right back with her clingy verbally abusive mom and ineffectual grandpa. I think maybe I identified a little too much with Donna, huh?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jul 20, 2010 21:48:54 GMT -5
One more thought: I think Rose, here, is a classic case of "be careful what you wish for". She wanted to spend the rest of her life with the Doctor? Well, she will, but not quite the way she wanted it...
I'm with Rachael, that was a fanfic ending if ever I saw one, and not really pleasing to me, either.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 5, 2012 2:30:17 GMT -5
One more thought: I think Rose, here, is a classic case of "be careful what you wish for". She wanted to spend the rest of her life with the Doctor? Well, she will, but not quite the way she wanted it... I'm with Rachael, that was a fanfic ending if ever I saw one, and not really pleasing to me, either. OK, I've had a thought, having just done an rewatch of seasons 1 through 4, about Rose and 10.2. Here's the thing: We see Rose in "The Stolen Earth" with a big ass gun. She threatens some looters. She blows up a Dalek. A store blows up behind her and she doesn't notice. The Doctor, as Davros points out in this episode, NEVER carries a gun. They even emphasized that in "The Doctor's Daughter" when he tells human and Haths to build a society on someone "who never would" use that kind of violence. She and the Doctor do the slow-mo run toward each other, and he's shot by a Dalek. But when it's clear he might regenerate, Rose's response is basically: you can't change, I've come all this way. If the Doctor is the same person, it shouldn't matter what the outside shell is, yeah? Finally, in the Vault with Davros, when Martha threatens to use the Osterhagen Key, and Jack threatens to use the Warp Star, Rose says: "She's good" and "Now that's what I call a ransom," respectively. He gives her a look I'd not noticed before, but that seems to be disappointment, like maybe she's not who she was. So, after all this ramble, now that I've rewatched all these, I'm wondering if the Doctor didn't leave her in the parallel world with 10.2 not only because he thought those two might be a better influence on each other but because he was disappointed in what Rose had become.
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