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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 14, 2012 21:35:49 GMT -5
Carolyn sent this to me with the heading Did you write it?No, but I wish I had. Perfect! It reminds me very much of what an evangelical friend of mine wrote up - and posted on FB - to explain to everyone why he was voting for Obama. (Well, it seemed aim to his "also evangelical" Romney-supporting friends.) He's the soul of grace and patience, which very much helped keep the tone of the comments/responses very civil, even when they disagreed. It made me wonder though, why he felt it so necessary to explain himself in such detail.
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Post by Sue on Dec 12, 2012 18:45:08 GMT -5
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Post by Sue on Dec 14, 2012 15:39:23 GMT -5
Someone please point me in the direction of something I can DO:
a petition to sign an organization to support financially a bill that I can write my congressmen about a march I can go on.
Some way to stand up to the NRA bullies (and maybe that's a start: anti-bullying is a current popular cause -- let's call these folks who insist that they have all the rights to buy and own and carry guns with little or no regulation what they are: bullies. Who use financial donations to sway political will. )
I don't even want to hear about "2nd amendment rights" -- times change. We've repealed amendments before. Let's at least curb the easy availability.
The rest of the world must think we are .... monsters.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 14, 2012 16:05:08 GMT -5
Someone please point me in the direction of something I can DO: a petition to sign an organization to support financially a bill that I can write my congressmen about a march I can go on. Some way to stand up to the NRA bullies (and maybe that's a start: anti-bullying is a current popular cause -- let's call these folks who insist that they have all the rights to buy and own and carry guns with little or no regulation what they are: bullies. Who use financial donations to sway political will. ) I don't even want to hear about "2nd amendment rights" -- times change. We've repealed amendments before. Let's at least curb the easy availability. The rest of the world must think we are .... monsters. Yup. All of this. If I come across anything I'll post it here. 18 dead children. 18 DEAD CHILDREN. Not teenagers, not young adults. The bastard targeted a KINDERGARTEN with a semi-automatic weapon. We could AT LEAST ban semi- and fully-automatic weapons, whose ONLY purpose is to kill massive amounts of people.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 14, 2012 16:08:32 GMT -5
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Post by Sue on Dec 14, 2012 17:02:00 GMT -5
Thank you. Hunting. Target practice/sport. Name me one other reason to own a gun. Sorry, Diane, I am not one who buys into "I need a gun to protect myself from others who own guns." Just ----- no. If people had been carrying their own concealed weapons in the Aurora movie theater (in my opinion) we would have had even more casualties as folks returned fire (wildly and randomly, shooting back at anyone else who shot). So fine, license and track guns for hunting and guns for sport. Fine, start small by enforcing the laws we have. Start by having "state stores" for the sale of guns and put all others out of business. And limit the amount of ammo that can be bought by an individual to a reasonable amount. Shot at a range every week/every day? Then allow additional ammo to be bought on site and used then and there. GGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Maybe it wouldn't prevent crazy people who hate their mothers from going ballistic. But that person might have to be a whole lot saner to get hold of the guns and ammo necessary to carry out their craziness. And if not then maybe there would be a record to track back and prosecute the person who sold said guns and ammo. At least let's get to the point where we at least think we might be doing something to improve the situation. I live in TN. It does NOT make me feel safer, far from it, to know that the guy at the table next to me in a family restaurant might be carrying a concealed weapon.
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Post by Sue on Dec 14, 2012 17:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by Queen E on Dec 14, 2012 18:37:31 GMT -5
Here's what's really evil. The NRA has set the dialogue so that people think "gun control" means "all guns will be made illegal." That is not the case; gun control means background checks, it means making sure that guns don't get in the hands of people of people who will obviously misuse them. Yes, I personally wish every gun would disappear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen one bit of policy that said they would take away legally obtained firearms from American citizens.
The fact of the matter is, the NRA does have responsibility for what happened today. It was the NRA who successfully lobbied to kill the assault weapons ban in 1994. ASSAULT WEAPONS HAVE ONLY ONE PURPOSE: MASS SLAUGHTER. You don't kill deer with an assault weapon. You can't kill dozens of people with a handgun.
I personally would love to see the NRA movers and shakers in prison for being an accessory BEFORE the fact.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 14, 2012 19:32:32 GMT -5
Thanks, Sue (and Erin), I signed the petition. It's not much, but it's something. I just read that Mike Huckabee is blaming the lack of God (read: prayer) in public schools for the shooting. Right. Your forgiving, loving deity allowed all these deaths because his followers weren't allowed to impose their beliefs on others in the public school system. If I wasn't already an atheist, I'd sure be trending that way... And please note that I am aiming these remarks only at Mike Huckabee, Brian Fischer, and others who respond to the tragedy by blaming our separation of church and state for it.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 14, 2012 19:48:24 GMT -5
Thanks, Sue (and Erin), I signed the petition. It's not much, but it's something. I just read that Mike Huckabee is blaming the lack of God (read: prayer) in public schools for the shooting. Right. Your forgiving, loving deity allowed all these deaths because his followers weren't allowed to impose their beliefs on others in the public school system. If I wasn't already an atheist, I'd sure be trending that way... And please note that I am aiming these remarks only at Mike Huckabee, Brian Fischer, and others who respond to the tragedy by blaming our separation of church and state for it. Yup, knew that was coming. I said to Mom: "how long before they blame atheists, liberals, feminists, and gays for this tragedy?"
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 14, 2012 22:19:49 GMT -5
I agree with you all regarding the need for much stricter gun control and enforcement of such laws, but once again, there is something else that is desperately needed here: - Better laws in regard to involuntary hospitalization of those with mental health issues. You know what they tell you? "We have to wait until he DOES SOMETHING."
- Better education of the general public, and anyone in public service, and in particular our health care and safety professionals when it comes to brain diseases and mental health problems.
- More investment in research for combatting mental health problems.
- Equal insurance coverage for those with mental health problems
- More investment in quality housing and hospitals for the mentally ill.
- Less gross misrepresentation of the realities of mental illness in popular culture.
So yes, of course, there should be laws to keep guns out the hands of those who are not sane, and to outlaw the sale of some types of guns, etc. Such laws will help cut down, I think, on the sort of incredibly awful and painful thing that happened today. Gun control is very important, but in my mind it is secondary to doing a better job of recognizing and treating mental illness. Gun control is a way of dealing with the fact that the horse is already out of the barn - which is important, because the horses are out of the barn, and there will never be a way to be sure zero horses will get out. But how about we also invest in building better barns, and researching how to build even better ones? To me, the need for better mental health care is the central issue.
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Post by Karen on Dec 17, 2012 21:36:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Sue (and Erin), I signed the petition. It's not much, but it's something. I just read that Mike Huckabee is blaming the lack of God (read: prayer) in public schools for the shooting. Right. Your forgiving, loving deity allowed all these deaths because his followers weren't allowed to impose their beliefs on others in the public school system. If I wasn't already an atheist, I'd sure be trending that way... And please note that I am aiming these remarks only at Mike Huckabee, Brian Fischer, and others who respond to the tragedy by blaming our separation of church and state for it. Yup, knew that was coming. I said to Mom: "how long before they blame atheists, liberals, feminists, and gays for this tragedy?" Speaking of placing blame, this blogger blames society having taken the power from young white men, and argues that 60s and onward, young men – and young white men in particular – have increasingly been asked to yield what they’d believed was securely theirs." And that "maleness and whiteness are commodities in decline". Commodities? Are we nothing but chatel? opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/guns-and-the-decline-of-the-young-man/?emSeriously? No thoughts about the fact that so many good blue collar jobs have been shipped over seas and the hopelessness many of our young men feel when they realize that the best job they could hope to get wouldn't even begin to support a wife, let alone kids? But no..we must blame the usurping of the jobs by women, who have the audacity to educate themselves and get a job in order to survive. Yeah.
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Post by Queen E on Dec 18, 2012 19:01:33 GMT -5
Yup, knew that was coming. I said to Mom: "how long before they blame atheists, liberals, feminists, and gays for this tragedy?" Speaking of placing blame, this blogger blames society having taken the power from young white men, and argues that 60s and onward, young men – and young white men in particular – have increasingly been asked to yield what they’d believed was securely theirs." And that "maleness and whiteness are commodities in decline". Commodities? Are we nothing but chatel? opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/guns-and-the-decline-of-the-young-man/?emSeriously? No thoughts about the fact that so many good blue collar jobs have been shipped over seas and the hopelessness many of our young men feel when they realize that the best job they could hope to get wouldn't even begin to support a wife, let alone kids? But no..we must blame the usurping of the jobs by women, who have the audacity to educate themselves and get a job in order to survive. Yeah. And all I can say is, O HAPPY DAY, if that was true. The fact of the matter is, whiteness and maleness are clearly NOT in decline, they just have decided that playing the victim is the way to go. Because they view the very legitimate complaints of women and anyone not white as just so much whining, and decided they wanted a piece of that.
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Post by Sue on Dec 20, 2012 16:49:34 GMT -5
Merry Christmas. Carolyn sent me this essay and it expresses both the joy and mystery of Christmas along with addressing (tangentially) the tragedy in Newtown and especially some of the absurd commentary on it. SOURCE: rachelheldevans.com/blog/god-kept-outThose little Advent candles sure have a lot of darkness to overcome this year. I see them glowing from church windows and on TV, in homes and at midnight vigils, here in Dayton and in Sandy Hook. Their stubborn flames represent the divine promise that even the smallest light can chase away the shadows lurking in this world, that even in the darkest places, God can’t be kept out.
It’s a hard promise to believe right now, I know. The children in the pictures are just too young, too familiar. Our hearts ache; the darkness seems so heavy and thick. We all grieve in different ways, and we must be patient with one another as we do, but there is a rumor floating around among the people of God that is so vile, so dangerous and untrue, it simply must be called out. It’s a rumor that began long before the shots rang out at Sandy Hook and long before this Advent season. It’s the rumor that God can be chased out. You might have heard it from Bill O’Reilly and those who, every Christmas, work themselves into a frenzy over the “War on Christmas.” They storm checkout counters to demand that clerks issue them a “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays,” crying persecution when inflatable manger scenes are moved from public courthouses to private property. They demand that every gift purchased, every mall opened late, every credit card maxed out must be done so in Jesus’ name…or else Christ will be taken out of Christmas. They do it because someone told them that God needs a nod from the Empire to show up, forgetting somehow that God showed up as a Jew in the Roman Empire.
In a barn. As a minority. After a genocide. To the applause of a few poor shepherds. If the incarnation tells us anything, it’s that God can’t be kept out. Or you might have heard the rumor from a red-faced preacher who insists that if we can’t keep God’s name in our pledge, on our money, and on our courthouse walls, then we can’t keep God in our country . He has convinced his congregation that the fight of faith is a fight for power, that we win when we see God’s name on our cash, on our statues, on our idols, and in our legislation. He thinks that the removal of God’s name is the removal of God’s very self. He has forgotten that when God showed up, God was executed by the government. On a cross. Emptied of all power. Only to rise from a borrowed grave three days later because God can’t be kept out.Or, most recently, you might have heard the rumor from Bryan Fischer, from Mike Hucakbee or a friend on Facebook, saying that God abandoned the children at Sandy Hook because, though children have every right to pray in public schools, those schools cannot sponsor prayer events out of deference to religious freedom. When asked where God was on that awful Friday morning, these Christians have said that God did not show up at Sandy Hook because “God is not allowed in public schools,” because “ we have systematically removed God” from that place. Brothers and sisters, let’s call this one for what it is: bullshit.
God can be wherever God wants to be. God needs no formal invitation. We couldn’t “systematically remove” God if we tried. If the incarnation teaches us anything, it’s that God can be found everywhere: in a cattle trough, on a throne, among the poor, with the sick, on a donkey, in a fishing boat, with the junkie, with the prostitute, with the hypocrite, with the forgotten, in places of power, in places of oppression, in poverty, in wealth, where God’s name is known, where it is unknown, with our friends, with our enemies, in our convictions, in our doubts, in life, in death, at the table, on the cross, and in every kindergarten classroom from Sandy Hook to Shanghai. God cannot be kept out. And although my doubt and anger make it hard for me to believe today, I will keep lighting those little Advent candles like a religious fool until they help me in my unbelief. May their flames be a reminder to all of us that we don’t have to know why God let this happen to know that God was there…. and here, and in those swaddling clothes, and on that cross, and in that grave, and on the throne. For no amount of darkness can overcome the light.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 21, 2012 10:04:07 GMT -5
Merry Christmas. Carolyn sent me this essay and it expresses both the joy and mystery of Christmas along with addressing (tangentially) the tragedy in Newtown and especially some of the absurd commentary on it. SOURCE: rachelheldevans.com/blog/god-kept-outThose little Advent candles sure have a lot of darkness to overcome this year. I see them glowing from church windows and on TV, in homes and at midnight vigils, here in Dayton and in Sandy Hook. Their stubborn flames represent the divine promise that even the smallest light can chase away the shadows lurking in this world, that even in the darkest places, God can’t be kept out.
It’s a hard promise to believe right now, I know. The children in the pictures are just too young, too familiar. Our hearts ache; the darkness seems so heavy and thick. We all grieve in different ways, and we must be patient with one another as we do, but there is a rumor floating around among the people of God that is so vile, so dangerous and untrue, it simply must be called out. It’s a rumor that began long before the shots rang out at Sandy Hook and long before this Advent season. It’s the rumor that God can be chased out. You might have heard it from Bill O’Reilly and those who, every Christmas, work themselves into a frenzy over the “War on Christmas.” They storm checkout counters to demand that clerks issue them a “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays,” crying persecution when inflatable manger scenes are moved from public courthouses to private property. They demand that every gift purchased, every mall opened late, every credit card maxed out must be done so in Jesus’ name…or else Christ will be taken out of Christmas. They do it because someone told them that God needs a nod from the Empire to show up, forgetting somehow that God showed up as a Jew in the Roman Empire.
In a barn. As a minority. After a genocide. To the applause of a few poor shepherds. If the incarnation tells us anything, it’s that God can’t be kept out. Or you might have heard the rumor from a red-faced preacher who insists that if we can’t keep God’s name in our pledge, on our money, and on our courthouse walls, then we can’t keep God in our country . He has convinced his congregation that the fight of faith is a fight for power, that we win when we see God’s name on our cash, on our statues, on our idols, and in our legislation. He thinks that the removal of God’s name is the removal of God’s very self. He has forgotten that when God showed up, God was executed by the government. On a cross. Emptied of all power. Only to rise from a borrowed grave three days later because God can’t be kept out.Or, most recently, you might have heard the rumor from Bryan Fischer, from Mike Hucakbee or a friend on Facebook, saying that God abandoned the children at Sandy Hook because, though children have every right to pray in public schools, those schools cannot sponsor prayer events out of deference to religious freedom. When asked where God was on that awful Friday morning, these Christians have said that God did not show up at Sandy Hook because “God is not allowed in public schools,” because “ we have systematically removed God” from that place. Brothers and sisters, let’s call this one for what it is: bullshit.
God can be wherever God wants to be. God needs no formal invitation. We couldn’t “systematically remove” God if we tried. If the incarnation teaches us anything, it’s that God can be found everywhere: in a cattle trough, on a throne, among the poor, with the sick, on a donkey, in a fishing boat, with the junkie, with the prostitute, with the hypocrite, with the forgotten, in places of power, in places of oppression, in poverty, in wealth, where God’s name is known, where it is unknown, with our friends, with our enemies, in our convictions, in our doubts, in life, in death, at the table, on the cross, and in every kindergarten classroom from Sandy Hook to Shanghai. God cannot be kept out. And although my doubt and anger make it hard for me to believe today, I will keep lighting those little Advent candles like a religious fool until they help me in my unbelief. May their flames be a reminder to all of us that we don’t have to know why God let this happen to know that God was there…. and here, and in those swaddling clothes, and on that cross, and in that grave, and on the throne. For no amount of darkness can overcome the light. Yes, I had seen this article, and it did a good job bringing home the ridiculousness and self-serving nature of "Huckabee" type comments. If you believe in God, you also believe that no one, and no society, and no place, can be Godless.
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