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Post by Onjel on Jul 5, 2005 8:46:18 GMT -5
Over and over again I am impressed by how intellectual, analytical and observant S'cubies are. Great discussion everyone! First off - I must say - this was NOT on my list. I really, really disliked the upshot of this episode - which was Buffy and Giles exchange. So instead of delving into what has gone before, I'm going to give my (admittedly) not deep impressions. I'll start off by saying I love Giles. I mean what a wonderful character. I loved him from the first moment I saw him in the library. I have a weakness for British accents (my first post college boyfriend was British and I'm sure he seduced me with his silken voice alone). Giles is terrific. His character is built up over the years with so many (Hi Ripper) terrific layers. I love him. Then of course Giles left - which I hated but I understand actors have personal lives but suddenly he wasn't there. And the show truly suffered for the lack of Giles. Big time! But then - yeah he's back but is he? I hated the characterization of Giles in the 7th season. He was underused, used for cheap laughs and completely and totally did not act in character. I know Giles has hated Spike in the past but I'm sorry - I just didn't buy this. He would have cared about his soul, he would not have turned on Spike like this. I hate that he conspired with Wood and I hate the way he lied to Buffy. Sometimes parents and parental substitutes do have to lie to their children. I get that. But I thought this was out of character. Giles can be harsh - he killed Glory/Ben when he had to but I think he and Buffy have a much better relationship than this sorry situation. So I really disliked this episode for that reason. It did have good acting, it did reveal alot of Spike's backstory (and I really, really disliked his mum) and we did get to see Punk Spike again - which is always good but I hate character assassination with a passion. I think the writers dropped the ball on Giles in the 7th season. I'm sure many can rise up and dispute that - trust me I've heard all the reasons and they are all good. Yes - this can all be interpreted in many ways but I didn't like it and didn't feel that this was something Giles would have done. I agree with you that Giles was not Giles in S7 and it irritated me no end. In all the seasons, Giles may have been angry at Buffy, but never totally unsupportive as he was in S7. He helped kick her out of her own house, for heaven's sake and totally turned on her. Then, two days later he makes a complete about-face and becomes Mr. Supportive guy. As far as trying to kill Spike, I also doubt that such actions would be something he would have done but for Robin's influence. Or maybe TFE had influence that was not explicity shown. Don't know. The last time I recall Giles lying to Buffy was during the Cruciamentum and that had a devastating effect not only on their relationship, but his own psyche. Where was I going with this? Don't have the slightest idea, now.  |
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Post by Pixi on Jul 5, 2005 9:20:01 GMT -5
Over and over again I am impressed by how intellectual, analytical and observant S'cubies are. Great discussion everyone! First off - I must say - this was NOT on my list. I really, really disliked the upshot of this episode - which was Buffy and Giles exchange. So instead of delving into what has gone before, I'm going to give my (admittedly) not deep impressions. I'll start off by saying I love Giles. I mean what a wonderful character. I loved him from the first moment I saw him in the library. I have a weakness for British accents (my first post college boyfriend was British and I'm sure he seduced me with his silken voice alone). Giles is terrific. His character is built up over the years with so many (Hi Ripper) terrific layers. I love him. Then of course Giles left - which I hated but I understand actors have personal lives but suddenly he wasn't there. And the show truly suffered for the lack of Giles. Big time! But then - yeah he's back but is he? I hated the characterization of Giles in the 7th season. He was underused, used for cheap laughs and completely and totally did not act in character. I know Giles has hated Spike in the past but I'm sorry - I just didn't buy this. He would have cared about his soul, he would not have turned on Spike like this. I hate that he conspired with Wood and I hate the way he lied to Buffy. Sometimes parents and parental substitutes do have to lie to their children. I get that. But I thought this was out of character. Giles can be harsh - he killed Glory/Ben when he had to but I think he and Buffy have a much better relationship than this sorry situation. So I really disliked this episode for that reason. It did have good acting, it did reveal alot of Spike's backstory (and I really, really disliked his mum) and we did get to see Punk Spike again - which is always good but I hate character assassination with a passion. I think the writers dropped the ball on Giles in the 7th season. I'm sure many can rise up and dispute that - trust me I've heard all the reasons and they are all good. Yes - this can all be interpreted in many ways but I didn't like it and didn't feel that this was something Giles would have done. I agree with you that Giles was not Giles in S7 and it irritated me no end. In all the seasons, Giles may have been angry at Buffy, but never totally unsupportive as he was in S7. He helped kick her out of her own house, for heaven's sake and totally turned on her. Then, two days later he makes a complete about-face and becomes Mr. Supportive guy. As far as trying to kill Spike, I also doubt that such actions would be something he would have done but for Robin's influence. Or maybe TFE had influence that was not explicity shown. Don't know. The last time I recall Giles lying to Buffy was during the Cruciamentum and that had a devastating effect not only on their relationship, but his own psyche. Where was I going with this? Don't have the slightest idea, now. But hey- it was supportive and that means alot to me. The last time I posted something like this -on my previous board, a couple of boardies crucified me. I mean really, really lit into my opinions. So I did post this with trepidition but it was always something I felt strongly about.  |
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Post by Onjel on Jul 5, 2005 9:33:16 GMT -5
I agree with you that Giles was not Giles in S7 and it irritated me no end. In all the seasons, Giles may have been angry at Buffy, but never totally unsupportive as he was in S7. He helped kick her out of her own house, for heaven's sake and totally turned on her. Then, two days later he makes a complete about-face and becomes Mr. Supportive guy. As far as trying to kill Spike, I also doubt that such actions would be something he would have done but for Robin's influence. Or maybe TFE had influence that was not explicity shown. Don't know. The last time I recall Giles lying to Buffy was during the Cruciamentum and that had a devastating effect not only on their relationship, but his own psyche. Where was I going with this? Don't have the slightest idea, now. But hey- it was supportive and that means alot to me. The last time I posted something like this -on my previous board, a couple of boardies crucified me. I mean really, really lit into my opinions. So I did post this with trepidition but it was always something I felt strongly about. Dumbasses. Jeez. I am sorry to hear about that bad experience. I wouldn't worry too much about this, however, because if you look back along the main thread there are repeated references to Pod Giles, so I think we have more people who agree with us than we know.  |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2005 11:57:29 GMT -5
Other stuff: The episode opens with rain, which I now look at with suspicion whenever I see it, 'cause Erin told me it often symbolizes baptism/rebirth of some kind. But...in this ep, rain might just be rain. Wood: "You remind me of my mother." Eww, and no shit. There's not a little of the Freudian going on in the two mother-son relationships in this episode. But, in neither case do I think either son is really taking it to the extreme that the Oedipus complex implies. Both, however, might have unhealthy connections to their mothers. I LOVED Giles' casual mention of demon-fighting in the principal's office. It's gotten so bad in Sunnydale that people don't even bother to remember to close the doors when they talk about demons and occult libraries. ;D Giles, re: Spike's brain: I don't think it takes up that much space, do you? Anya: Forgiveness makes us human...blah di blah blah blah. Anyone but me creeped by Dru's body language in the scene with Spike's mum? The rubbing of her belly as if she was preggers? "Sorry. Not much for self-reflection." Hee, and also - was that a lie? Or was this the turning point? Buffy would now let Dawn die to save the world?? Sorry, but I don't actually see this as an improvement, necessarily. I mean, okay, it makes her a better general...but a worse person. And for me, Buffy's ties to the world and the people in it were her greatest strength. No sacrificing Dawny! Spike ultimately made the right choice re: his mum, despite his vampireness. He loved her, and he killed her rather than let her continue to be something she'd have abhorred in life. Interesting that he was still capable of making moral decisions. And finally, Buffy: I have a mission....The mission is what matters. Deliberate echoing of Wood's mom, just as with the "You're beneath me" line from two seasons earlier.... I have weird feelings and ookiness and go back and forth on Buffy's change to "I would sacrifice Dawn" too. I mean, I can understand intellectually what she's saying. That, really, to say you don't care if the whole world and everyone in it dies, you only care about saving your sister . . . OK, that's kinda wrong. And yet . . . once you start deciding things like "we'll kill you so others live" . . . well, that's kinda wrong too. I guess, for me, it comes down to this. There's a big difference between deciding to sacrifice oneself for others or to save the world, (like diving off a big tower into a supernatural portal, say) and deciding to sacrifice someone else - to push someone else off that tower into a big ol' supernatural portal. Ultimately, isn't that the difference between Buffy and Glory? |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2005 12:08:40 GMT -5
OK, my notes... Vengeance is bad, folks. You heard it here first. ;D This is a really interesting thought. I mean, I've always listened to that line and seen a big insight into Wood. It's why he doesn't just dust Spike as he stands - as the helper, in with the gang, all souled up and all. He needs him to be the monster that killed his mom - all those same attempts to split the demon and the soul and the person that we've seen with Angel & Angelus. But the part about killing the Slayerness, killing, in effect, the duty and mission that kept his mother from him . . . Wow. That's a very intriguing idea. Thanks so much for that info, as I haven't listened to the DVD commentary on season 7 yet. It's a very apt bit of casting and theme-building. Continues the whole "love's bitch", why Spike is the way he is with women thing - takes it full circle. It definitely gave me a deeper understanding of why we never see biting (or, as you say, the threat of turning) in the rough and tumble of Spike and Buffy in season 6. **nods** That little "I suppose I have you to thank for that" is very important. That line is soooooo effective! I also find the duel "I'm sorry"s (one to mom in flashback, one to Wood in current time) very interesting. Of course he immediately says "not you" to Wood, but . . . I like your idea that he keeps bringing it up in season 5 (even though it seems to be done very . . . lightly) as a clue that he'd really like someone to talk to about it. It would make a lot of sense. |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 5, 2005 12:10:32 GMT -5
Over and over again I am impressed by how intellectual, analytical and observant S'cubies are. Great discussion everyone! First off - I must say - this was NOT on my list. I really, really disliked the upshot of this episode - which was Buffy and Giles exchange. So instead of delving into what has gone before, I'm going to give my (admittedly) not deep impressions. I'll start off by saying I love Giles. I mean what a wonderful character. I loved him from the first moment I saw him in the library. I have a weakness for British accents (my first post college boyfriend was British and I'm sure he seduced me with his silken voice alone). Giles is terrific. His character is built up over the years with so many (Hi Ripper) terrific layers. I love him. Then of course Giles left - which I hated but I understand actors have personal lives but suddenly he wasn't there. And the show truly suffered for the lack of Giles. Big time! But then - yeah he's back but is he? I hated the characterization of Giles in the 7th season. He was underused, used for cheap laughs and completely and totally did not act in character. I know Giles has hated Spike in the past but I'm sorry - I just didn't buy this. He would have cared about his soul, he would not have turned on Spike like this. I hate that he conspired with Wood and I hate the way he lied to Buffy. Sometimes parents and parental substitutes do have to lie to their children. I get that. But I thought this was out of character. Giles can be harsh - he killed Glory/Ben when he had to but I think he and Buffy have a much better relationship than this sorry situation. So I really disliked this episode for that reason. It did have good acting, it did reveal alot of Spike's backstory (and I really, really disliked his mum) and we did get to see Punk Spike again - which is always good but I hate character assassination with a passion. I think the writers dropped the ball on Giles in the 7th season. I'm sure many can rise up and dispute that - trust me I've heard all the reasons and they are all good. Yes - this can all be interpreted in many ways but I didn't like it and didn't feel that this was something Giles would have done. I don't like season 7 Giles, either. I mean, we've talked about all sorts of reasons why some of his behavior might make sense, etc. But I still just don't like it. So there! ;D |
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Post by Onjel on Jul 5, 2005 12:13:39 GMT -5
Other stuff: The episode opens with rain, which I now look at with suspicion whenever I see it, 'cause Erin told me it often symbolizes baptism/rebirth of some kind. But...in this ep, rain might just be rain. Wood: "You remind me of my mother." Eww, and no shit. There's not a little of the Freudian going on in the two mother-son relationships in this episode. But, in neither case do I think either son is really taking it to the extreme that the Oedipus complex implies. Both, however, might have unhealthy connections to their mothers. I LOVED Giles' casual mention of demon-fighting in the principal's office. It's gotten so bad in Sunnydale that people don't even bother to remember to close the doors when they talk about demons and occult libraries. ;D Giles, re: Spike's brain: I don't think it takes up that much space, do you? Anya: Forgiveness makes us human...blah di blah blah blah. Anyone but me creeped by Dru's body language in the scene with Spike's mum? The rubbing of her belly as if she was preggers? "Sorry. Not much for self-reflection." Hee, and also - was that a lie? Or was this the turning point? Buffy would now let Dawn die to save the world?? Sorry, but I don't actually see this as an improvement, necessarily. I mean, okay, it makes her a better general...but a worse person. And for me, Buffy's ties to the world and the people in it were her greatest strength. No sacrificing Dawny! Spike ultimately made the right choice re: his mum, despite his vampireness. He loved her, and he killed her rather than let her continue to be something she'd have abhorred in life. Interesting that he was still capable of making moral decisions. And finally, Buffy: I have a mission....The mission is what matters. Deliberate echoing of Wood's mom, just as with the "You're beneath me" line from two seasons earlier.... I have weird feelings and ookiness and go back and forth on Buffy's change to "I would sacrifice Dawn" too. I mean, I can understand intellectually what she's saying. That, really, to say you don't care if the whole world and everyone in it dies, you only care about saving your sister . . . OK, that's kinda wrong. And yet . . . once you start deciding things like "we'll kill you so others live" . . . well, that's kinda wrong too. I guess, for me, it comes down to this. There's a big difference between deciding to sacrifice oneself for others or to save the world, (like diving off a big tower into a supernatural portal, say) and deciding to sacrifice someone else - to push someone else off that tower into a big ol' supernatural portal. Ultimately, isn't that the difference between Buffy and Glory? I agree. By season 7, though, Buffy was so beleagered, and the threat was so much huger than Glory, that I think her perspective changed to one of "the good of the many outweigh the needs of the one" type of thinking. Not to mention, she got noooooo support at all from anyone other than Spike and probably felt that she would have to save the day alone, again, and if that meant sacrificing a part of her (Dawn) to save the world, she would have to do it. Besides, I got the impression that Buffy's innocence (Dawn) had been worn down to an itty bitty nub and she didn't feel the same about the mission anymore. It wasn't a hallowed calling, it became a horrifying burden that no one could share, until she found a way. Only at the end do we see the old Buffy re-appear with hope inside her. |
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Post by Rachael on Jul 5, 2005 13:38:07 GMT -5
But then - yeah he's back but is he? I hated the characterization of Giles in the 7th season. He was underused, used for cheap laughs and completely and totally did not act in character. Agreed, for the most part. We have, though, had a discussion on and off about Giles' out-of-character behavior being consistent with PTSD - and having had his Slayer/daughter die, followed by her resurrection and subsequent semi-suicidal depression for a year, not to mention all the other Hellmouthy things he'd put up with over the years - he might have a little PTS. It's a real pity they didn't devote more time to Giles and less to the Potentials in Season 7. Here I have to disagree, though. I think that Giles deciding to kill Spike for the greater good is in character. He was the one, after all, who tried to talk Buffy into killing Dawn at the end of Season 5: "We are NOT talking about this." "Yes, we bloody well ARE!" He didn't go so far as to do it himself, but I have no doubt he would have, had it been the only way to save the world. And in the end, he did murder someone in cold blood in order to be sure Glory couldn't come back. Giles isn't a hero. He's a pragmatist, who believes that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one, no matter who that one is. The conspiracy bothers me a bit, because I'd've thought that Giles would have just dealt with Spike himself, rather than confound the betrayal with the deal with Wood. They had had one, but hadn't seen one another much, at all, for two years. And his faith in Buffy's decision-making skills might well have been tainted by knowing what went on in Season 6. After all, it is the case that Spike is a danger at this point in the season. He's got a psychological trigger that turns him into a killing machine, and he lives in their house. Giles isn't entirely wrong to want that threat removed. In his mind, they're dealing with the end of the Slayers, and having a cold-blooded murderer living in the same house with the end of the Slayer line is a huge risk to take. Having said that, I believe it's the wrong choice, because it's not the only choice. He should have tried harder to remove the trigger. He could have had Spike's invite revoked again, by Willow. There were options other than murder, which he didn't consider. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 5, 2005 14:49:06 GMT -5
I have weird feelings and ookiness and go back and forth on Buffy's change to "I would sacrifice Dawn" too. I mean, I can understand intellectually what she's saying. That, really, to say you don't care if the whole world and everyone in it dies, you only care about saving your sister . . . OK, that's kinda wrong. And yet . . . once you start deciding things like "we'll kill you so others live" . . . well, that's kinda wrong too. I guess, for me, it comes down to this. There's a big difference between deciding to sacrifice oneself for others or to save the world, (like diving off a big tower into a supernatural portal, say) and deciding to sacrifice someone else - to push someone else off that tower into a big ol' supernatural portal. Ultimately, isn't that the difference between Buffy and Glory? I agree. By season 7, though, Buffy was so beleagered, and the threat was so much huger than Glory, that I think her perspective changed to one of "the good of the many outweigh the needs of the one" type of thinking. Not to mention, she got noooooo support at all from anyone other than Spike and probably felt that she would have to save the day alone, again, and if that meant sacrificing a part of her (Dawn) to save the world, she would have to do it. Besides, I got the impression that Buffy's innocence (Dawn) had been worn down to an itty bitty nub and she didn't feel the same about the mission anymore. It wasn't a hallowed calling, it became a horrifying burden that no one could share, until she found a way. Only at the end do we see the old Buffy re-appear with hope inside her. Also, with Glory she knew that ALL she had to do to defeat the Apocalypse was to sacrifice herself. There was no such simple "cure" for the sitch with TFE--and I don't think she was saying that she'd sacrifice Dawn *instead* of herself, rather, that even Dawn was not immune from whatever might be needed to defeat The First. |
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Post by Pixi on Jul 5, 2005 15:01:00 GMT -5
But then - yeah he's back but is he? I hated the characterization of Giles in the 7th season. He was underused, used for cheap laughs and completely and totally did not act in character. Agreed, for the most part. We have, though, had a discussion on and off about Giles' out-of-character behavior being consistent with PTSD - and having had his Slayer/daughter die, followed by her resurrection and subsequent semi-suicidal depression for a year, not to mention all the other Hellmouthy things he'd put up with over the years - he might have a little PTS. It's a real pity they didn't devote more time to Giles and less to the Potentials in Season 7. Here I have to disagree, though. I think that Giles deciding to kill Spike for the greater good is in character. He was the one, after all, who tried to talk Buffy into killing Dawn at the end of Season 5: "We are NOT talking about this." "Yes, we bloody well ARE!" He didn't go so far as to do it himself, but I have no doubt he would have, had it been the only way to save the world. And in the end, he did murder someone in cold blood in order to be sure Glory couldn't come back. Giles isn't a hero. He's a pragmatist, who believes that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one, no matter who that one is. The conspiracy bothers me a bit, because I'd've thought that Giles would have just dealt with Spike himself, rather than confound the betrayal with the deal with Wood. They had had one, but hadn't seen one another much, at all, for two years. And his faith in Buffy's decision-making skills might well have been tainted by knowing what went on in Season 6. After all, it is the case that Spike is a danger at this point in the season. He's got a psychological trigger that turns him into a killing machine, and he lives in their house. Giles isn't entirely wrong to want that threat removed. In his mind, they're dealing with the end of the Slayers, and having a cold-blooded murderer living in the same house with the end of the Slayer line is a huge risk to take. Having said that, I believe it's the wrong choice, because it's not the only choice. He should have tried harder to remove the trigger. He could have had Spike's invite revoked again, by Willow. There were options other than murder, which he didn't consider. I have heard all these arguments and I agree they all have merit. I'm still sticking by my points however. ;D And thank you for responding so nicely. As I mentioned - I tend not to respond to anything but lighthearted posts these days based on past experiences with those who claim to know all and then ream out opinions they disagree with. |
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Post by Onjel on Jul 5, 2005 15:08:33 GMT -5
I agree. By season 7, though, Buffy was so beleagered, and the threat was so much huger than Glory, that I think her perspective changed to one of "the good of the many outweigh the needs of the one" type of thinking. Not to mention, she got noooooo support at all from anyone other than Spike and probably felt that she would have to save the day alone, again, and if that meant sacrificing a part of her (Dawn) to save the world, she would have to do it. Besides, I got the impression that Buffy's innocence (Dawn) had been worn down to an itty bitty nub and she didn't feel the same about the mission anymore. It wasn't a hallowed calling, it became a horrifying burden that no one could share, until she found a way. Only at the end do we see the old Buffy re-appear with hope inside her. Also, with Glory she knew that ALL she had to do to defeat the Apocalypse was to sacrifice herself. There was no such simple "cure" for the sitch with TFE--and I don't think she was saying that she'd sacrifice Dawn *instead* of herself, rather, that even Dawn was not immune from whatever might be needed to defeat The First. Oh I totally agree with this. No way would Buffy sacrifice Dawn instead of herself, but if Dawn and others were lost in the battle to defeat TFE then that is something she would have to come to terms with, assuming she made it out. Even then, she took great pains to make sure Dawn was with someone she knew would watch Dawn's back at the school. In the end, Buffy didn't want to lose anyone, but she knew that it might have to happen. |
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Post by Rachael on Jul 5, 2005 15:12:27 GMT -5
Agreed, for the most part. We have, though, had a discussion on and off about Giles' out-of-character behavior being consistent with PTSD - and having had his Slayer/daughter die, followed by her resurrection and subsequent semi-suicidal depression for a year, not to mention all the other Hellmouthy things he'd put up with over the years - he might have a little PTS. It's a real pity they didn't devote more time to Giles and less to the Potentials in Season 7. Here I have to disagree, though. I think that Giles deciding to kill Spike for the greater good is in character. He was the one, after all, who tried to talk Buffy into killing Dawn at the end of Season 5: "We are NOT talking about this." "Yes, we bloody well ARE!" He didn't go so far as to do it himself, but I have no doubt he would have, had it been the only way to save the world. And in the end, he did murder someone in cold blood in order to be sure Glory couldn't come back. Giles isn't a hero. He's a pragmatist, who believes that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one, no matter who that one is. The conspiracy bothers me a bit, because I'd've thought that Giles would have just dealt with Spike himself, rather than confound the betrayal with the deal with Wood. They had had one, but hadn't seen one another much, at all, for two years. And his faith in Buffy's decision-making skills might well have been tainted by knowing what went on in Season 6. After all, it is the case that Spike is a danger at this point in the season. He's got a psychological trigger that turns him into a killing machine, and he lives in their house. Giles isn't entirely wrong to want that threat removed. In his mind, they're dealing with the end of the Slayers, and having a cold-blooded murderer living in the same house with the end of the Slayer line is a huge risk to take. Having said that, I believe it's the wrong choice, because it's not the only choice. He should have tried harder to remove the trigger. He could have had Spike's invite revoked again, by Willow. There were options other than murder, which he didn't consider. I have heard all these arguments and I agree they all have merit. I'm still sticking by my points however. ;D And thank you for responding so nicely. As I mentioned - I tend not to respond to anything but lighthearted posts these days based on past experiences with those who claim to know all and then ream out opinions they disagree with. Mostly we don't do that. All opinions are valued - it's not like we actually KNOW what the writers had in mind, or even if they had anything in mind when they wrote PodGiles. (And, for my part? I like having my opinions on this stuff challenged. Where's the fun if no one will disagree?) |
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Post by Onjel on Jul 5, 2005 15:19:26 GMT -5
Agreed, for the most part. We have, though, had a discussion on and off about Giles' out-of-character behavior being consistent with PTSD - and having had his Slayer/daughter die, followed by her resurrection and subsequent semi-suicidal depression for a year, not to mention all the other Hellmouthy things he'd put up with over the years - he might have a little PTS. It's a real pity they didn't devote more time to Giles and less to the Potentials in Season 7. Eetah that. I would have liked to have seen the reasons behind his altered behavior. I agree to a point. Gile's suggestion that Dawn may have to die was a last resort kind of thing. He was saying that if that was the only way to defeant Glory, Dawn might have to be sacrificed. With Spike there were other ways, as you point out below. Those ways weren't even given a thought when Giles took it upon himself to conspire with Wood. And, with Dawn, Giles never acted upon his remarks to Buffy. He did with Spike, for whom he should have had some respect, if not liking. I mean, Spike helped him out (ok for $$$) in A New Man, and Spike let himself get the crap beaten out of him in Intervention, etc. They even worked together when Buffy was dead. I think the season 7 Giles is much more hardened and pig-headed; kind of a control freak with his only object of control having left him in the dust. Agree, totally. Eetah. Very valid points. But even before when he thought Buffy was being stubborn and not thinking clearly, he never conspired to go against her in such a profoundly hurtful way. I would have thought he would have learned his lesson from the deep betrayal of the Cruciamentum. Agree, totally. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 5, 2005 15:21:33 GMT -5
I agree he shouldn't have been with her on the hunt, but we get the idea she is a single mom - and their were times I took a child where he really shouldn't be, because I had to. If there is truly no one to watch him - and you've really got to be somewhere, whatchya gonna do? Myself, I'd've left him at home, alone, in a locked apartment, sooner than take him out where the vampires could get at him. Well - that's a close call. A kid that little, alone in a locked apartment for hours - there is no telling what he will do. There are many dangers there, too. You can't know that he won't open the door to a stranger, or even invite a vampire in, no matter how many times you tell him not too. No - I think I'd have brought him with me . . . maybe. It's not an easy call. The things kids can get into when they are alone - their intense vulnerability when they are alone . . . I just don't see it as an obvious call, especially if I am an experienced, confident Slayer . . . well - decisons like that are very hard. |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 5, 2005 15:38:04 GMT -5
Myself, I'd've left him at home, alone, in a locked apartment, sooner than take him out where the vampires could get at him. Well - that's a close call. A kid that little, alone in a locked apartment for hours - there is no telling what he will do. There are many dangers there, too. You can't know that he won't open the door to a stranger, or even invite a vampire in, no matter how many times you tell him not too. No - I think I'd have brought him with me . . . maybe. It's not an easy call. The things kids can get into when they are alone - their intense vulnerability when they are alone . . . I just don't see it as an obvious call, especially if I am an experienced, confident Slayer . . . well - decisons like that are very hard. Nikki said something about "don't go home go to Crowley's house," which makes me think that Spike had accidentally gotten an invite to their place. And Crowley wasn't taking care of Robin while Nikki was patrolling because...? We're never given any explanation, so any number of things are possible. |
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