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Post by Betsy on Jun 8, 2003 16:18:27 GMT -5
Pizza?! What kind of pizza.... it's making me hungry just thinking about it. If it wasn't such a pain to get the delivery folks to find the right apartment and get them through the gate, I'd order some too (oh, plus if I had some cash). I did buy some Freschetta pizza at Publix today. Maybe I'll make that... *sigh* Now you've made me hungry Rob! I need something to go with all those kegs up there.... *goes off to put on the oven* I'm finally here for the party. Pizza sounds good. May have to give a call for delivery.
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 8, 2003 16:21:22 GMT -5
Where's Dave when you need him... First I had to get the kegs and, let me tell you, it's a bitch trying to lug that many of them into my apartment. Now I have to deliver the pizza as well... Ahh well, pizza for all. Calorie free and everything! Plus, even the veggie people can have this type of pepperoni Image gotten from: www.rollerskating.org/tradeshow/pizza.jpg
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 8, 2003 16:23:39 GMT -5
Where's Dave when you need him... First I had to get the kegs and, let me tell you, it's a bitch trying to lug that many of them into my apartment. Now I have to deliver the pizza as well... Ahh well, pizza for all. Calorie free and everything! Plus, even the veggie people can have this type of pepperoni Hmmm... I was concerned about those who don't like pepperoni... So, here is a little something for everyone. Pardon me, I had to have a piece already Picture "borrowed" from: www.stanford.edu/dept/hds/dining/resdinng/lakeside/images/pizza.jpg
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Post by Becky H on Jun 8, 2003 16:32:06 GMT -5
I'm back - I'd left before I realized Nan was here, too. I thought it was just me and a bunch of crickets chirping. I need both pizza and beer on a moving day: local favorites in my neck of the woods: Wheat State Golden and John Brown Ale. And I don't like fishies or jalapenos on my pizza but anything else is fine.
And Nan, your werewolf question put me in mind of Professor Lupin in The Prisoner of Azkaban, a character who chooses, as did Oz, to understand and to learn to control his wolf nature. It seems to me the intentions behind an action are a defining difference between vampires and werewolves: vampires remain sentient creatures but werewolves do not. So the question then becomes does the lack of a soul make a difference? But ah, do werewolves, despite their monthly affliction, lose a soul? That's as far as I've got in my thinking for now but I'm still working on it...
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Post by Kerrie on Jun 8, 2003 16:33:20 GMT -5
Gee the pizza looks good, but its a bit early for me. But where is everyone? I thought this was going to be a party.
PS Thanks to Dave and Lee for telling me it was Wild at heart and not where the wild things are. It feels good to know that I was hallucinating about the earlier discussion! ;D Or at least better than knowing there were different versions of the DVD.
Hey I've just noticed that the kiss emoticon has changed!
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Post by William the Bloody on Jun 8, 2003 16:36:24 GMT -5
howdy folks! Let me clear one thing up. I am not the driving force behind the ol' S3. YOU all are! I just compile and collate. If it hadn't been for the interest, desire and the tremendous amount of help and initiative that so many of you have given, this place wouldn't exist at all. This place would'nt exist without our creator, Alex. Dave, with his online help and Rae who is creating an exquisite "help & faq" area are more responsible for the smooth operation of this Message board than I am. And I fear that they are both becoming far more knowledgable concerning it's operation than I. So everyone, raise a frosty mug supplied by our offical party gal... errr.. I mean hostess, Patti (who supplied all the wonderful decorations and the beer!) and let's give all of ourselves a big toast: To the Soulful Spike Society...our very own chapter of the Order of the Sleepless (K)nights...may she be a beacon to all Spike fans, Buffy fans, Angel fans and Joss Whedon fans. The Buffyverse will endure for a long, long time if we have any say. Unlike many,I consider our fanship to be the truer, deeper kind. We admire the fact that it is done so right but we won't hesitate to declare when we think it perhaps faltered here and there, and still we love it...we will always watch and we all have "faith in Joss." Vlad, TA, tp ps. Pizza!!! Oh man.. okay...I gotta go order pizza! Be back in a little bit.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 8, 2003 16:37:09 GMT -5
I'm back - I'd left before I realized Nan was here, too. I thought it was just me and a bunch of crickets chirping. I need both pizza and beer on a moving day: local favorites in my neck of the woods: Wheat State Golden and John Brown Ale. And I don't like fishies or jalapenos on my pizza but anything else is fine. And Nan, your werewolf question put me in mind of Professor Lupin in The Prisoner of Azkaban, a character who chooses, as did Oz, to understand and to learn to control his wolf nature. It seems to me the intentions behind an action are a defining difference between vampires and werewolves: vampires remain sentient creatures but werewolves do not. So the question then becomes does the lack of a soul make a difference? But ah, do werewolves, despite their monthly affliction, lose a soul? That's as far as I've got in my thinking for now but I'm still working on it... Just clarifying: in my example, I wasn't speaking of WEREwolves, only natural wolves--predators--as being comparable to a vampire. In other words, does the fact of being a vampire make an individual automatically evil? If yes, why so? If no why not? [/color]
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 8, 2003 16:39:26 GMT -5
Where's Dave when you need him... First I had to get the kegs and, let me tell you, it's a bitch trying to lug that many of them into my apartment. Now I have to deliver the pizza as well... Ahh well, pizza for all. Calorie free and everything! Plus, even the veggie people can have this type of pepperoni Image gotten from: www.rollerskating.org/tradeshow/pizza.jpgGreat! Did you get some pineapple and Canadian bacon pizza too?
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 8, 2003 16:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 8, 2003 16:46:15 GMT -5
Great! Did you get some pineapple and Canadian bacon pizza too? Hmmm, Patti, check the pizza by the FanFic... I think that's what you're looking for... Becky, stay away from the pizza over there by the Help... got some of those fishy creatures on it (yuck!) Nan - Not ignoring your topic. I've been trying to think of what side I take and I am wavering. Do wolves kill primarily for food and not enjoyment? If so, then I might say therein lies a big difference in the "evil" department. Vampires, especially in the Jossverse, seem to savor their kill implying that it may not just be about physical fullfillment. That would tip the vampire scale towards evil moreso than the fact that they kill. Predators are going to go after their prey. I don't think that makes all predators evil. The motives behind the hunt and kill are the point at which I begin to separate the "good" from the "bad". *goes back to thinking about it*
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 8, 2003 16:46:46 GMT -5
howdy folks! Let me clear one thing up. I am not the driving force behind the ol' S3. YOU all are! I just compile and collate. If it hadn't been for the interest, desire and the tremendous amount of help and initiative that so many of you have given, this place wouldn't exist at all. This place would'nt exist without our creator, Alex. Dave, with his online help and Rae who is creating an exquisite "help & faq" area are more responsible for the smooth operation of this Message board than I am. And I fear that they are both becoming far more knowledgable concerning it's operation than I. So everyone, raise a frosty mug supplied by our offical party gal... errr.. I mean hostess, Patti (who supplied all the wonderful decorations and the beer!) and let's give all of ourselves a big toast: To the Soulful Spike Society...our very own chapter of the Order of the Sleepless (K)nights...may she be a beacon to all Spike fans, Buffy fans, Angel fans and Joss Whedon fans. The Buffyverse will endure for a long, long time if we have any say. Unlike many,I consider our fanship to be the truer, deeper kind. We admire the fact that it is done so right but we won't hesitate to declare when we think it perhaps faltered here and there, and still we love it...we will always watch and we all have "faith in Joss." Vlad, TA, tp ps. Pizza!!! Oh man.. okay...I gotta go order pizza! Be back in a little bit. Vlad is in the house! And nine others at the moment...Cool, I'm going to go get some ginger ale and a twizzler and I'll be right back.
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 8, 2003 16:47:54 GMT -5
Vlad is in the house! And nine others at the moment...Cool, I'm going to go get some ginger ale and a twizzler and I'll be right back. *waves her noisemaker in Patti's direction* Ooooh, a twizzler. Can I have one? Purty please?
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Post by Becky H on Jun 8, 2003 16:50:44 GMT -5
Just clarifying: in my example, I wasn't speaking of WEREwolves, only natural wolves--predators--as being comparable to a vampire. In other words, does the fact of being a vampire make an individual automatically evil? If yes, why so? If no why not? [/color][/quote] I'd just read about the fifth book being released so perhaps that's why my mind jumped to Harry Potter. No, I don't think wolves by nature are evil (especially since I just finished Farley Mowat's Never Cry Wolf) so the question then becomes are vampires analogous to wolves and not evil? I think, still, it's a question of sentience and intention. Wolves, despite the intelligence of the species and their familial behavior, do not have a conscience. Vampires, on the other hand, can get their sustenance from a blood bank (at least in this era) and therefore can choose. Without this capacity to choose between good and evil, how could we account for Spike, even pre-soul and as far back as his actions in LMPTM?
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Post by RAKSHA on Jun 8, 2003 16:51:53 GMT -5
Proposition for debate/discussion: being a vampire, as such, is no more intrinsically evil than being a wolf.
To start things off, here's a section from the chapter of EME I'm working on now. The situation is that Buffy is watching a wild game of Capture the Flag involving Spike and all the SITs, in the rain.
The gospel according to the Watchers’ Council declared vampirism a loathsome affliction, a fundamental contamination by evil, and further decreed that all right-thinking individuals would suicide at finding themselves turned, leaving only the cowards and those with innate evil already within them to haunt the darkness. Long after she’d defied and rejected the Council itself, Buffy had continued to accept that received gospel unexamined and unquestioned. Now, watching Spike and the SITs in violent, joyous play, Buffy wondered how anybody but a frightened child, of any age, could believe such utter crap. She saw the Council pronouncement for what it was: a denunciation of wolves by sheep. Wasn’t as simple as that, and being a wolf, if you were a wolf, could quite plainly be a hell of a lot of fun.
And she didn't see why she had to miss out on it. [/color] [/quote] If you say that a vampire is no more intrinsically evil than a wolf; then you signify that a vampire is just another animal, incapable of making moral judgments and distinguishing right from wrong. A wolf will kill sheep because the wolf needs to eat; while a vampire has the brain to acquire pig's blood or raid the human blood bank. If a wolf started roaming the suburbs and killing people and/or turning them into wolves, the local humans would be justified in hunting down the wolf and caging or killing it. Wolves are one of my favorite species, btw. But I don't equate them with vampires or vice versa. Vampires, especially new vampires, seem like human children without parents or conscience. Spike was a vampire who grew up, even before he won his soul back. Gail
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 8, 2003 16:52:39 GMT -5
Hey I've just noticed that the kiss emoticon has changed! I looked - did it just change position? And was there always an embarrassed emoticon or is that new? Cause I could have used that one a lot...and probably still will!
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