|
Post by SpringSummers on Jun 17, 2003 7:53:34 GMT -5
I definitely see both sides of this debate, and am just throwing this into the mix. LMPTM seems to suggest that Spike was different from the very beginning, before the chip or the Buffy love. An anomaly, the writers say. I wonder if there are more like him out there, and how many? Mary Since he's called a freak over and over, the suggestion seems to be there aren't many like him. And I definitely think he was "different" right from the start . . . but it was the chip and the Buffy-love that allowed that difference to bloom into something . . . I not only think of Spike as freaky, but as the occurrences which led to his redemption, happening just as they did, as freakish. That's the impression I get overall - that while Spike's re-ensoulment has huge implications in a philisophical sense, it's not likely to have any enormous impact in a practical sense.
|
|
|
Post by raenstorm on Jun 17, 2003 7:54:40 GMT -5
His imagination was ebulgent, huh, Spring? LOL. Mary LOL! Oh my, I'm not sure how I missed Spring's reference to Spike's great IMAGINATION but that was great!
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jun 17, 2003 8:03:22 GMT -5
His imagination was ebulgent, huh, Spring? LOL. Mary LOL right back at you. Yes - ebulgent is a good word for it. Though it has its tragic aspects, in some ways, it was a good thing Dru came along and turned him. It was such a crime, the way William was wasting that nice imagination. Keeping my eyes peeled for any and all ebulgent occurrences, no matter how subtle, on or off-screen, I remain, Spring Summers Chair, Ebulgeometrics (and your humble servant)
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jun 17, 2003 8:03:25 GMT -5
While I've been reluctant to jump in this debate (I'm tired), I have to agree. I think in Hush, although it may have just been witty banter, Spike indicated that he would have never bit someone like Xander. Further, we've been led to believe that Darla turning Angel and Dru turning Spike was "special," thus leading to the thought that it is not an indiscriminate act. Maybe the killings are random, but they select who they turn for whatever reason (I mean, why did Darla want to turn Angel, why did Angel want to turn Dru, why did Dru want to turn Spike?). I tend to agree with this. I think vamps are particular about who they turn. Spike suggests this when he tells Willow he 'thought' about biting her (which in the context he said it led me to believe he meant 'biting' as in 'turning' her, not just for a meal. In the (*cough* - more shameless self-promotion *cough*) story I'm writing, I explore this a little, talking about the Aurelius line - 'the select, the elite' as Darla calls them. I theorize that this line, at least, is quite picky about who they choose to turn, selecting those that will add power and prestige to their line. I also have some other speculations about the line that get worked into the story. Joss and ME left a lot of the Buffyverse vampire lore unexplained. For a series or two that have vampires as central characters, he's really left a lot open to speculation and to the imagination of the viewers. Which is a really, really *good* thing for fic writers - gives us a lot of unexplored areas to delve into. I'm very, very curious about how Spike's presence might affect this next year on Angel. With a second vamp from the same line on the show that STARS the first vamp (rather than Buffy), he really has a golden opportunity to go into this area if he chooses to. And I would love to see some of that. Mary
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jun 17, 2003 8:07:32 GMT -5
Perhaps I should have specified that I believe SOME vamps are particular about who they turn. For some reason, I can see Dru, for instance, turning everyone she can get her hands on, and leaving Spike to deal with all these inexperienced new vamps while she has tea parties with her dolls.
Mary
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 17, 2003 8:09:09 GMT -5
Peasant, whose work I admire greatly, has written the definitive "true" version of Spike's "Girl in the Coal Bin" story that he tells Dawn in "Crush." It's a William rather than a Spike story (i.e., historical).
The URL is:
www.ficbitch.com/peasants_plot/GoodFairy.html [/color]
|
|
|
Post by LeeHollins on Jun 17, 2003 8:17:58 GMT -5
Betsy - love, love, LOVE your signature line!! It's great! La, la, la, la...should really be working....la, la, la, la....but I don't want to....la, la, la, la....Do I have to? But I don't wanna!!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jun 17, 2003 8:26:17 GMT -5
La, la, la, la...should really be working....la, la, la, la....but I don't want to....la, la, la, la....Do I have to? But I don't wanna!! Where do you think I was all day yesterday?? Working, I tell you. RL gets pretty nervy at times, butting into my Buffy obsession... Mary
|
|
|
Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 17, 2003 8:48:59 GMT -5
Peasant, whose work I admire greatly, has written the definitive "true" version of Spike's "Girl in the Coal Bin" story that he tells Dawn in "Crush." It's a William rather than a Spike story (i.e., historical).
The URL is:
www.ficbitch.com/peasants_plot/GoodFairy.html [/color][/quote] Now THAT was fun! What a hoot! Thank you, Nan!!! Thanks also for noticing that my picture was a fugitive - I'll ask Betsy what to do about it.
|
|
|
Post by RustyGoode on Jun 17, 2003 8:55:12 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about indescriminant. Sure we haven't seen all that many adults on BtVS but you would think that they are there, just invisible à la Charlie Brown. They're there, we just don't get to see them. Vampires aren't indescriminant about who they turn. There are very few children vampires (other than the Annoying One). Nor do we see any elderly vampires, not even among the dust-fodder we see every week. I don't buy an argument based on "they weren't very strong in life and as such wouldn't live very long as vampires" either. Embued with vampire strength, I think that the older-humans-turned-vampire would live longer since older people tend to have more life experience and are therefore more savvy. Well certainly more intelligent than the average Sunnydale teen. This line of reasoning would also explain why "Master Vampires" live so long. If a vampire is capable of making it through the first century or so chances are they have what it takes to make it through many more. Provided they can keep up with the changing times. (Anne Rice addresses the issue of vampires trying to keep up with the changing society around them quite nicely.) In any event, I have rambled so long that I don't even remember what I started out wanting to say... I guess that is a sign to stop while I'm ahead. (Or at least before I dig myself in too deep.) Micha PS: Where do I find the spellcheck? Turning new vamps seems to be alot like dating. When you're young, vamps want to turn everything in sight, when you get older you're more discriminating because you know that, like it or not, turning someone establishes a bond and a responsibility. So, don't turn anybody you're not willing to run into three days later. "You never call, you never bite...was it something I did?"
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jun 17, 2003 9:01:17 GMT -5
Master Vampire isn't, to my knowledge, a Jossverse term, though it's certainly widely used in Buffy fanfiction. (If its been used on either show, I'm unaware of it.)
Does anyone know where it originated, and what, exactly, the definition is? I mean, I've always just assumed it's a vamp that has reached a certain age, though I don't know what age that is.
Can anyone define it more clearly, and tell me what they're basing their definition on?
Mary
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jun 17, 2003 9:04:36 GMT -5
Dave - I think it was - gave a definition of the difference between minions and fledgings some weeks ago. Could you restate it, Dave, and tell me your source? Anyone else care to speculate, or better yet, educate me, on more specific definitions of these two terms, and tell me what they're basing their knowledge on?
Mary
|
|
|
Post by Betsy on Jun 17, 2003 9:08:45 GMT -5
Betsy - love, love, LOVE your signature line!! It's great! La, la, la, la...should really be working....la, la, la, la....but I don't want to....la, la, la, la....Do I have to? But I don't wanna!! Which one Lee . . the one under the pic or the one at the bottom of my messages? The one on the bottom I just had to change Buffy's name to my own . . . .I'd treat him with so more respect and being older and much more experienced than she -- would show him quite the good time ;D Okay, on that thought, I'm off to start working now with visions of a certain platinum haired vamp on the mind. BTW, NAN was reading the 3 new chapters of EME . . am so totally hooked Mary, read your new chapters of Journey's and am also so hooked on that story. WIl definitely be printing those out and and starting a book of my faves. I'm passing Sweet William (by Peasan)on to a girlfriend of mine. That was one awesome story and so believable.
|
|
|
Post by LeeHollins on Jun 17, 2003 9:11:34 GMT -5
Which one Lee . . the one under the pic or the one at the bottom of my messages? The one on the bottom I just had to change Buffy's name to my own . . . .I'd treat him with so more respect and being older and much more experienced than she -- would show him quite the good time ;D I was referring to the one under your posts (the one you changed to include your name!). I just think it's hysterical!! Oohh, that gives me an idea! Betsy, do you mind I borrow your idea? Not your actual line but just the idea behind it?
|
|
|
Post by Betsy on Jun 17, 2003 9:12:25 GMT -5
I was referring to the one under your posts (the one you changed to include your name!). I just think it's hysterical!! Oohh, that gives me an idea! Betsy, do you mind I borrow your idea? Not your actual line but just the idea behind it? Hey go for it Lee . . . I'm all for sharing . . . except when it includes Angel or Spike ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|