kimi
S'cubie
"Gabriel=Mini-Spike"
Posts: 102
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Post by kimi on Jun 22, 2003 22:21:48 GMT -5
I mention (in EME) just the vaguest possibility that Spike may have at some unspecified distant time gotten extremely friendly with a likewise unspecified male, and certain valued readers bail. [/color][/quote] Surely you jest. Readers bailed over *that*! I mean, I pretty much thought that that was a given, with the subtext we have. When I say that I don't write it, I don't mean I don't read the good stuff. And it doesn't mean that I can't see it. The thing I dislike about the m/m slash thing is the hurt/comfort scenario. I have plenty of gay friends, male and female, but they're pretty 'straight' if you get my drift. In fact, I think I'm probably a little kinkier than they are. So much of the m/m slash fic is tied to the hurt/comfort thing that to me, it's a cop out. But frankly, given the parameters of ... say, the Spike/Angelus dynamic that we've seen, that's the only scenario that works. Sex is sex, and it can be pretty genderless, just like love can be. Frankly, that's how I see Willow's relationships with both Oz and Tara. She loved the person. The equipment was secondary, and I'm sorry that ME ended up feeling like they had to make some kind of 'gay' statement to go with. And I cannot believe I've started this discussion.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 22, 2003 22:24:52 GMT -5
Surely you jest. Readers bailed over *that*! I mean, I pretty much thought that that was a given, with the subtext we have. When I say that I don't write it, I don't mean I don't read the good stuff. And it doesn't mean that I can't see it. The thing I dislike about the m/m slash thing is the hurt/comfort scenario. I have plenty of gay friends, male and female, but they're pretty 'straight' if you get my drift. In fact, I think I'm probably a little kinkier than they are. So much of the m/m slash fic is tied to the hurt/comfort thing that to me, it's a cop out. But frankly, given the parameters of ... say, the Spike/Angelus dynamic that we've seen, that's the only scenario that works. Sex is sex, and it can be pretty genderless, just like love can be. Frankly, that's how I see Willow's relationships with both Oz and Tara. She loved the person. The equipment was secondary, and I'm sorry that ME ended up feeling like they had to make some kind of 'gay' statement to go with. And I cannot believe I've started this discussion. Believe it and be glad. It gave me a chance for a righteous whine, which I always appreciate. (Whine!) [/color]
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kimi
S'cubie
"Gabriel=Mini-Spike"
Posts: 102
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Post by kimi on Jun 22, 2003 22:27:22 GMT -5
In other words, graphic sex to me is a turn-off no matter who's involved. Sex, to me, doesn't qualify as a spectator sport. [/color][/quote] Good point, that. And my thing as well. When I write something that I perceive as NC17 (a lot of people giggle over my concept of it), I can only go so far. Frankly, the story loses its impact if I get lost in the physical acrobatics. I mean, I'm big on body language, but not in that sense of it.
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Post by karalee on Jun 22, 2003 22:28:23 GMT -5
Karalee, I agree with you about Lovingkindness by Herself. I just read some nice things Herself said about Old Blood and went back and read her novelette, which is excellently done. It's about the 12th time I've read it. The pacing and dynamic and characterization are all fine, so I can forgive it the plumbing, which I tend to dislike no matter the gender pairings. In other words, graphic sex to me is a turn-off no matter who's involved. Sex, to me, doesn't qualify as a spectator sport. [/color][/quote] If I had a complaint about Lovingkindness it would be that it ended a little abruptly. I kept waiting for another chapter. Otherwise it had me in tears.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Jun 22, 2003 22:29:30 GMT -5
Good point, that. And my thing as well. When I write something that I perceive as NC17 (a lot of people giggle over my concept of it), I can only go so far. Frankly, the story loses its impact if I get lost in the physical acrobatics. I mean, I'm big on body language, but not in that sense of it. I suspect it's sort of like eating snails or playing chess: very interesting for those involved but not too great for an onlooker. [/color]
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 22, 2003 22:38:55 GMT -5
I just read some nice things Herself said about Old Blood and went back and read her novelette, which is excellently done. It's about the 12th time I've read it. The pacing and dynamic and characterization are all fine, so I can forgive it the plumbing, which I tend to dislike no matter the gender pairings. In other words, graphic sex to me is a turn-off no matter who's involved. Sex, to me, doesn't qualify as a spectator sport. [/color][/quote] I just had to giggle....uh...12 times eh? that's....that's outstanding forgiveness.... ;D
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kimi
S'cubie
"Gabriel=Mini-Spike"
Posts: 102
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Post by kimi on Jun 22, 2003 22:40:53 GMT -5
I just had to giggle....uh...12 times eh? that's....that's outstanding forgiveness.... ;D and on that note, I'm for bed. It's been a lovely weekend. Meeting Sue and Alexandra tomorrow evening, so this just gets better and better. Thank you all for such a lovely welcome!
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Post by karalee on Jun 22, 2003 23:20:33 GMT -5
Goodnight
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Post by RAKSHA on Jun 22, 2003 23:35:15 GMT -5
Surely you jest. Readers bailed over *that*! I mean, I pretty much thought that that was a given, with the subtext we have. When I say that I don't write it, I don't mean I don't read the good stuff. And it doesn't mean that I can't see it. The thing I dislike about the m/m slash thing is the hurt/comfort scenario. I have plenty of gay friends, male and female, but they're pretty 'straight' if you get my drift. In fact, I think I'm probably a little kinkier than they are. So much of the m/m slash fic is tied to the hurt/comfort thing that to me, it's a cop out. But frankly, given the parameters of ... say, the Spike/Angelus dynamic that we've seen, that's the only scenario that works. Sex is sex, and it can be pretty genderless, just like love can be. Frankly, that's how I see Willow's relationships with both Oz and Tara. She loved the person. The equipment was secondary, and I'm sorry that ME ended up feeling like they had to make some kind of 'gay' statement to go with. And I cannot believe I've started this discussion. I dunno; I think Angelus would have been very capable of forcing the fledgeling William to have sex with him; and would have thought it 'fun', or a way of enforcing his dominance in their pack. But I can't imagine the current Angel having any interest in m/m sex.
Gail
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Post by RAKSHA on Jun 22, 2003 23:50:16 GMT -5
I just watched "Surprise" for the first time in years. Loved the Spike & Dru scenes - so Dru's birthday is the same day as Buffy's? The moment when Dru, tickled by the Judge's destroying the minion with glasses (was that Dalton?), giggled and stomped and exclaimed "Do it again" was funny, she was like a little girl. Well, a super-strong homicidal lunatic little girl... Anyway, I seem to remember that there was some skin shown and intense kissage and sexual moves when Angel deflowered Buffy; but the show I saw tonight started with a kiss and then showed Buffy peacefully sleeping under the covers. Could the station have cut a few moments, or am I confusing the episode with future Angel sex scenes (the actual one, when he was human, with Buffy, and the fantasy sequence with Cordelia)? Gail
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Jun 22, 2003 23:57:48 GMT -5
Can't stay on long, but I just stumbled across something that completely surprised me, so I wanted to share it in the event other S'cubies didn't know.
Robin Sachs, who played Ethan Rayne, Giles' nemesis and the worshipper of chaos, also played Sarris, the reptilian bad guy in the movie Galaxy Quest. I had no clue he was even in the movie, since they have him burried under so much latex and enhance his voice so much, but I was clicking through the bios looking for Easter eggs and there he was.
BTW -- there are Easter eggs on that disc under several of the cast and crew bio pages -- at the top of each of the major bios is a button that takes you to an interview snippet with the castmember. Tim Allen's is a riot.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 23, 2003 0:00:12 GMT -5
Can't stay on long, but I just stumbled across something that completely surprised me, so I wanted to share it in the event other S'cubies didn't know. Robin Sachs, who played Ethan Rayne, Giles' nemesis and the worshipper of chaos, also played Sarris, the reptilian bad guy in the movie Galaxy Quest. I had no clue he was even in the movie, since they have him burried under so much latex and enhance his voice so much, but I was clicking through the bios looking for Easter eggs and there he was. BTW -- there are Easter eggs on that disc under several of the cast and crew bio pages -- at the top of each of the major bios is a button that takes you to an interview snippet with the castmember. Tim Allen's is a riot. Dave! *HUG* you are so missed! Are you talking about the Galaxy Quest DVD? I don't even know what an 'easter egg' is....except at Easter.
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Post by Vlad on Jun 23, 2003 0:05:23 GMT -5
and my colon can barely stomach it...period. Dash it all! I wish somebody would write that! Kennedy was no Tara, but Tara was no Oz! And Oz was no Xander..let's all hear it for ice cream on cute noses! Vlad
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Jun 23, 2003 0:08:20 GMT -5
and my colon can barely stomach it...period. Dash it all! And Oz was no Xander..let's all hear it for ice cream on cute noses! Vlad Hear hear!
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Post by Kerrie on Jun 23, 2003 0:31:36 GMT -5
I just watched "Surprise" for the first time in years. Loved the Spike & Dru scenes - so Dru's birthday is the same day as Buffy's? The moment when Dru, tickled by the Judge's destroying the minion with glasses (was that Dalton?), giggled and stomped and exclaimed "Do it again" was funny, she was like a little girl. Well, a super-strong homicidal lunatic little girl... Anyway, I seem to remember that there was some skin shown and intense kissage and sexual moves when Angel deflowered Buffy; but the show I saw tonight started with a kiss and then showed Buffy peacefully sleeping under the covers. Could the station have cut a few moments, or am I confusing the episode with future Angel sex scenes (the actual one, when he was human, with Buffy, and the fantasy sequence with Cordelia)? Gail I could be wrong, but I thnk that the scenes you are refering to are part of a flash-back sequence in Innocence.
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