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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 2, 2007 14:13:10 GMT -5
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Post by Vlad on Sept 2, 2007 16:10:25 GMT -5
Nice job, Spring! I like the way you pointed out all the things that are yet to come for Spike, Buffy & the gang as foreshadowing in this ep, yet didn't go ahead of yourself. As usual, you pointed out so many little things that surely had to have been there that I missed the first (and even the 5th) time around. I didn't think Spike was the "good guy" by the end of this episode. I thought Spike... hmmm.. I thought he was a fascinating character, a fun character and I couldn't wait to see where it was going. I hoped for his "hero-ness" just as I hoped for him to have a relationship with Buffy. But all the while... I never wanted him to be "too good." Personally, I have always loved the anti-hero, the reluctant hero, the guy that does all the right "big stuff" but still clings to the small darknesses. The guy that finds comfort in them, joy even. Spike is close to the epitome of that. Just as when he was truly evil, he clung to the small goodnesses (the Judge knew), when he becomes good, he clings to the small evils. That's how Spike stays Spike and still grows but Angel is so little like Angelus that no one would realize he's the same person other than for his looks. I am glad you are back and I hope that you manage your self-appointed schedule. Just remember, if you can't, you can't... if you don't want to you don't want to. And no matter how many times you tell your self that you should, it's jsut not gonna be there until you actually do. Want to, that is. Vlad
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Post by Squeemonster on Sept 2, 2007 18:52:41 GMT -5
Look at this . . . could it be? A new Spikecentricity?! Oh, frabjous day, indeed! Okay, now to the parts I loved oodles: See, I had completely forgotten about Dawn symbolizing Buffy's innocence/goodness. I much prefer thinking of Spike as trying to "protect" her and guide her on to the next (more adult) stage of her life, as opposed to dragging her down to the darkness and to what's beneath her. Yes, he's not all goodness and light; he never will be. But nothing in the real world of adults is all goodness and light. And just because something/someone isn't all goodness and light doesn't mean they're all evil. Shades of gray--that's all the real world is. And what's important for Spike (and for Buffy since she's being "protected/guided" by Spike) is that he is finally, truly starting to reach for goodness . . . "to be a man . . . ." And yet he will never be able to rid himself of all the evil because no one can rid themselves of all evil impulses. Being an adult is about learning balance in all areas of your life, but especially between your light and dark sides--both Spike and Buffy are about to go on their own journeys learning about that balance. Oh my god, I could go on and on, and digress and digress even more.... Such a neat insight into that scene. I always just thought it was a really cool stunt, and uh, that Spike looked really hot. ;D This is just . . . neat. Yes, I think this season portrayed emotional trauma and depression and mourning so, so perfectly. I especially love the part about "cleaning the dirt off her face." Very well said. I completely agree. Squee! But go extra slow through the nekkid parts, m'kay? ;D Yes, when I watch this I have similar thoughts about it--how far he has come, and how far he has left to go. If it weren't for is feelings for Buffy (and now his affection for Dawn), he would have been smack-dab in the middle of that free-for-all, having the time of his unlife. ;D You just made my week with this review!! You've exceeded my expectations--very well done. Can't wait for the next one, but don't pressure yourself over it. Just do it when you want to do it, and have fun with it!
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Sept 2, 2007 19:07:03 GMT -5
First, let me welcome you back.
Second, let me say it's high time (I've been waiting for this since you did Bargaining I!)
Third, I love the review. I want some time to digest it and reread it, but I will say I agree with your assessment of Buffy's mental condition. I also suspected that she had been in a good place rather than a hellish one.
Well done, Spring!
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Post by lilac43 on Sept 2, 2007 19:40:38 GMT -5
I love that someone has the dance of joy on their posting, because when I got an e-mail from Vlad saying that there was a new review, well, I about did that dance myself. (Side note: I read, heard in commentary, or something, I don't know where, but that it was actually Joss Whedon who played that character who does the dance of joy.)
I was so excited I couldn't wait to read it, even though I was supposed to be doing other things. I remember when I was happy to read Bargaining 1, until I realized it was only part. I had only ever seen the two parts together, because that's how they are on the DVD. Now it finally seems complete, that episode, I mean. I am amazed all over by the insights that Spring has regarding BTVS. I wish that these are things that I could think of myself, but I don't until I read them, then I say to myself: Yeah! That's right. Or Duh, why didn't I see that before? or Wow! I never noticed that, but that's a cool perspective.
Of course, you will never be able to write the reviews fast enough for me, but I guess I don't want to gorge myself on Buffy anyway, because then I would just be all fat, like that nasty demon Baltazar (Moisten the front! *shudder*). Now that Buffy and Angel are over, we have very little to realisticly look forward to. These reviews are so good, they are almost like new episodes to me, because they cause me to view the episodes in a new way, making it all shiny and new all over again. Thank you, Spring, for finally granting us with another of your fantastic reviews. Please, please, please keep them coming. I don't want to be all skin and bones either, just because I'm buffyless.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 2, 2007 19:45:04 GMT -5
Thanks, Vladster! Yep - I really doubt that most fans did. I also think of Spike as an "anti-hero" type - the reluctant hero who surprises himself. Oh - I want to! I've just been really overwhelmed with outside things for quite awhile. Things have settle a bit, now. Maybe. I hope!!
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 2, 2007 19:49:14 GMT -5
Look at this . . . could it be? A new Spikecentricity?! Oh, frabjous day, indeed! Okay, now to the parts I loved oodles: See, I had completely forgotten about Dawn symbolizing Buffy's innocence/goodness. I much prefer thinking of Spike as trying to "protect" her and guide her on to the next (more adult) stage of her life, as opposed to dragging her down to the darkness and to what's beneath her. Yes, he's not all goodness and light; he never will be. But nothing in the real world of adults is all goodness and light. And just because something/someone isn't all goodness and light doesn't mean they're all evil. Shades of gray--that's all the real world is. And what's important for Spike (and for Buffy since she's being "protected/guided" by Spike) is that he is finally, truly starting to reach for goodness . . . "to be a man . . . ." And yet he will never be able to rid himself of all the evil because no one can rid themselves of all evil impulses. Being an adult is about learning balance in all areas of your life, but especially between your light and dark sides--both Spike and Buffy are about to go on their own journeys learning about that balance. Oh my god, I could go on and on, and digress and digress even more.... Yes - that's my take as well . . . Spike is Buffy's guide in this part of her journey toward adulthood. Extra slow through the nekkid parts? You got it!! Thanks for the great feedback, Monnie - and the great advice about having fun. There is much fun to be had in analyzing sexy Season 6.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 2, 2007 19:51:37 GMT -5
First, let me welcome you back. Thank you! Yes, indeedy! Truly high time. Hopefully I can get on a steadier schedule now. Thanks for the feedback, Diane, and I look forward to any further thoughts after digestion!
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 2, 2007 19:54:27 GMT -5
I love that someone has the dance of joy on their posting, because when I got an e-mail from Vlad saying that there was a new review, well, I about did that dance myself. (Side note: I read, heard in commentary, or something, I don't know where, but that it was actually Joss Whedon who played that character who does the dance of joy.) I was so excited I couldn't wait to read it, even though I was supposed to be doing other things. I remember when I was happy to read Bargaining 1, until I realized it was only part. I had only ever seen the two parts together, because that's how they are on the DVD. Now it finally seems complete, that episode, I mean. I am amazed all over by the insights that Spring has regarding BTVS. I wish that these are things that I could think of myself, but I don't until I read them, then I say to myself: Yeah! That's right. Or Duh, why didn't I see that before? or Wow! I never noticed that, but that's a cool perspective. Of course, you will never be able to write the reviews fast enough for me, but I guess I don't want to gorge myself on Buffy anyway, because then I would just be all fat, like that nasty demon Baltazar (Moisten the front! *shudder*). Now that Buffy and Angel are over, we have very little to realisticly look forward to. These reviews are so good, they are almost like new episodes to me, because they cause me to view the episodes in a new way, making it all shiny and new all over again. Thank you, Spring, for finally granting us with another of your fantastic reviews. Please, please, please keep them coming. I don't want to be all skin and bones either, just because I'm buffyless. I will try to serve up the Buffy reviews in a modest manner that will keep you satisfied, yet slender! Thanks for providing the feedback and encouraging words, lilac! It helps with the motivation to keep going.
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Post by Karen on Sept 3, 2007 13:20:13 GMT -5
How very spooky was it that this episode was on this morning? Great review, Spring! Has it really been 20 months since your last one? I hadn't noticed that parallel with the motorcycle headlight. Very cool. Spike meeting that light head on and owning it was what he does - he controlled it, like you said. He adapts. He survives because he adapts. (Buffy, to me, was also Spike's 'light'. When he realized he loved her, he didn't run from it - but met it head on and owned that bumpy ride.) Your comment about finding the right guide to make it through the woods made me think about the ep where Riley left Buffy and it started her plunge 'Into the Woods' - now Spike will guide her out of it. Too bad he didn't have a magical football helmet to give her to protect her from the bumpy ride it was going to be to make it out of the woods - like the helmet he tossed to Dawn before she hopped on the back of his bike. I did not like the scene where the Buffybot was pulled apart. Mainly for the reason you stated - that is symbolized Buffy's leaving behind her childhood and her innocence. What is it about growing up that is so damn hard at times? It was brutal, and I was sad for the poor Buffybot. Which was actually Spike's creation. His fantasized version of what he thought he loved in Buffy - but when in reality, he loves the whole Buffy. The good and bad parts of Buffy. That's an amazing thing. Like you pointed out, Spike said "Robot's done." Not' - Buffybot, but 'robot'. He was also done with it at that point. Damn it, Joss. You even made me sympathize with a silly robot, so that when you ripped its guts out, you also ripped mine out. I could go on and on about all the things you pointed out, Spring, but I'll save some of for later. Congratulations on letting your writing muse out to play.
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Post by Michelle on Sept 3, 2007 13:23:08 GMT -5
Spring!!! I love your review! I re-watched Bargaining I & II this morning in preparation of reading your new review. In the back of my mind I thought that perhaps as I watched, I could pick out what aspects of the ep that you would focus. But I got so caught up in the drama, I completely forgot to put on my analysis hat. Ah well, I enjoyed myself though. I absolutely loved this part of your review. Buffy's struggle that began back in Season 5 to leave this world and work her way toward all the love and the light that life has to offer. Yes!! As usual, you totally nailed it. That section really highlights the other meaning of "dawn" as well: the growing lightness after a long period of dark. Very cool. The one thing that really did stick out for me as I watched the two eps backs to back was how much Xander was featured. He had a fairly large role, which makes sense knowing how important he becomes at the end of the season. . I know Xander is often referred to as Buffy's heart, which I guess could mean he represents her capacity for love, compassion, and perhaps even bravery. But what I believe Xander truly represents is Buffy's sense of responsibility, which is a major theme this season. Xander is the one who decides to forgo college and head out into the "real" world. He is also the only one to plan to really settle down when he becomes engaged to Anya. In these episodes, he is the one marveling at the immaturity of Anya and Giles' squabbling. He is the one who really questions Willow about the black magic to resurrect Buffy. And he is the one who takes over leading the Scoobies when Willow becomes wiped out from spell. He directs Anya and Tara to go one way, while he carries Willow off in another direction. A good plan? Maybe, maybe not, but he takes responsibility and takes action. As you say, Xander gets a little lost going through the woods, but with his friends' help, he finally makes it out. And finally, I am totally in love with this: This has alway been my belief as well, and it what I really love about the Buffyverse. Out of pain comes healing, out of disappointment comes hope. I am so appreciative of your gift of analysis, Spring. I am eager to read more as you write them when you can, only as YOU can.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 3, 2007 17:09:14 GMT -5
How very spooky was it that this episode was on this morning? Great review, Spring! Has it really been 20 months since your last one? I hadn't noticed that parallel with the motorcycle headlight. Very cool. Spike meeting that light head on and owning it was what he does - he controlled it, like you said. He adapts. He survives because he adapts. (Buffy, to me, was also Spike's 'light'. When he realized he loved her, he didn't run from it - but met it head on and owned that bumpy ride.) Yes. great observation. Spike is attracted to Buffy's light, and as he guides her through the woods, he comes out of the woods himself. Yes, the Buffybot's ending was really ugly. I did not like it either. So true. We see in Bargaining Part 1 that Spike, as the 'bot says, "doesn't like" the Buffybot "anymore." She's become a painful reminder of something not-so-nice he did to Buffy, and a painful reminder of the fact that really real Buffy is gone. Spike can't take comfort in the 'bot, the way Giles and Dawn do - which makes sense. As a dad figure, Giles responds to the child in Buffy - and as a child, Dawn can too. Thanks, Karen! And I look forward to any further comments you may have.
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Post by SpringSummers on Sept 3, 2007 17:14:22 GMT -5
Spring!!! I love your review! Thank you. Great point about the meaning of "Dawn." Xander does take a major role in Bargaining Part 2, and he will similarly have a major role at the end. It's interesting that Willow has set herself up as "in charge," and this is referred to several times, but that in fact, Xander is the one who is playing the leader role in the ep, at least as much, if not more, than Willow. Thanks so much for the feedback, Fotada. It does help with keeping me motivated to move forward.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Sept 3, 2007 20:30:40 GMT -5
Bargaining originally aired right after 9/11. The twop recapper made reference to the collapsing tower and the World Trade Center, and so whenever I rewatch the episode, the tower falling down always makes me think of 9/11. Which in the end, is pretty similar to the connection you make here, coming of age and all that.
I like the idea you have of the Scoobies not only lost in the woods, but remaining lost because they haven't found the right light to guide them. Very apt.
Are there *that* many references to The Music Man in season 6?
The Bargaining commentary is not great, but the worst one by far in my book is the one for Consequences. Bor-ing.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Sept 4, 2007 6:54:39 GMT -5
I'm having some thoughts about the 'bot. In the beginning is was Spike's sex toy and that was all. However, like everyone else in the Buffyverse, the robot changed over time. What began as only a series of programmed responses evolved as the environment around the robot changed. It was learning. It learned to respond to the Scoobies, Giles and Dawn and it learned to adjust those responses appropriately. It began to show emotional responses that went beyond its programmed perkiness and to make thoughtful answers to questions. Clearly it had a long way to go, but I think that if it had survived it would have eventually approached something like sentience.
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