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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 22, 2003 12:54:40 GMT -5
well, as Thomas Kuhn would say - you have found the hole in the theory! Because of the embalming process, we should have VERY FEW vamps today, but, indeed, as has been said already, SunnyD was abloom with them! And Spike is a piss-poor Master Vamp! He not only attacks his own kind, how many vamps bring over? Ford? He was dusted. All those fledges in Season 7? dusted. So, who WAS the vamp siring all those vamps Buffy dusted? hmmm.. I think I will apply some cognitive processes here, and just not ask anymore..... But your question is so Good..... Isn't that where all the fun is, in discussing the minutea in detail? These are never elements that detract from the strong storytelling that exists in the Jossverse, but they can be so much fun to ponder and discuss.
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Post by Vlad on Oct 22, 2003 12:55:22 GMT -5
This is very "zen". But I'm in agreement, not mocking. Christians try to say this same thing when we claim God gives us free-will (and therefore we are responsible for our choices) and yet at the same time, we are only capable of turning away from sin and toward Him by His prevenient (it's a Calvin word) grace. It's a paradox. At least from our limited perspective--doesn't mean it can't be true. Absolutely NOT trying to start a religious discussion here, just taking Spring's comments and recasting them in another mileu. Oh i agree, Sue. I don't wnat us arguing religion either. Too easy to accidently anger someone because they feel like their beliefs are being attacked. However, this is where the show seems to be going, and I do believe its something that Joss is examining with the characters..and always has. Therefore, we would be remiss if we didn't "talk about it" We just need ot keep in mind that we should always talk in hypotheticals about religion no matter what we believe... just for the respect of our fellow S'cubies. Vlad
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Post by Sue on Oct 22, 2003 12:55:35 GMT -5
My new master scubie name . . . thanks for pleading my case Vlad to William the Bloody. If I can ever return the favor, just let me know what I can do. ;D Very cool Betsy. Thanks for all the new avatars.
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Post by Sue on Oct 22, 2003 13:00:29 GMT -5
...is turning into a regular "ScoopMe". Some very insightful, thoughtful comments posted very recently by two brand new posters--watch out for the competition Dave and Vlad (and John and Rob, but they aren't on right now)--I think they are males!
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 22, 2003 13:06:18 GMT -5
Oh i agree, Sue. I don't wnat us arguing religion either. Too easy to accidently anger someone because they feel like their beliefs are being attacked. However, this is where the show seems to be going, and I do believe its something that Joss is examining with the characters..and always has. Therefore, we would be remiss if we didn't "talk about it" We just need ot keep in mind that we should always talk in hypotheticals about religion no matter what we believe... just for the respect of our fellow S'cubies. Vlad I absolutely agree that politics and religion are generally two topics guaranteed to start a bar fight. Thusly, I know that I often feel a bit queezy when getting off on a discussion about either topic on this board, mainly because although I believe what I believe, I respect that many if not most may disagree with me at least in the details if not the overall concept. And I don't see this as a place for witnessing, as we Christians call it, that is, the "recruiting" of new believers. But at the same time, there are religious overtones in a show about vampires that can often be fascinating to discuss and difficult to ignore. I for one try to limit any discussion on the topic more to "just the facts, ma'am"; I try my best to keep any zeal out of it and just discuss the facts of the Bible (that is, that facts as I understand them to be). And in the end, I often learn much by the differing viewpoints presented in oposition of my own. I guess in the end, it comes down to the same as any other discussion on this board -- a differing opinion is not necessarily a wrong opinion and should never be treated as such. For the most part, I've been very impressed with this board to discuss nearly any topic without turning it into a pissing contest, and that seems to especially be the case when it comes to subjects like religion or Spike-worship (which, for some, is its own religion) that are often quite empassioned. In the end, we all have proven capable of discussing nearly anything like adults ... religion, racism, Rob's obsession with Xander, etc. ...., and I think that is and will continue to be a foundation that will attract new members in droves.
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 22, 2003 13:07:32 GMT -5
...is turning into a regular "ScoopMe". Some very insightful, thoughtful comments posted very recently by two brand new posters--watch out for the competition Dave and Vlad (and John and Rob, but they aren't on right now)--I think they are males!Cool, Vlad. Someone to drink beer and watch monster truck rallies in our underwear with. Keep 'em comin'!
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Post by karalee on Oct 22, 2003 13:08:18 GMT -5
I found a download of the ep. You have to wait 2 hours to download it by direct link, but if you want to download some software, you can get it now. I'm sure I just used the wrong terms for all of that, but here it is: Wait, the first part is up now.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 22, 2003 13:14:25 GMT -5
I just got notice that Hellbound is available for downloading. As a .avi file, only part one is currently available; presumably the other parts will be put up soon.
www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2165
[/color]
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 22, 2003 13:15:15 GMT -5
I suspect that Spike's positioning "over the Hell Dimension" is going to have little to do with what he deserves or doesn't deserve. I don't know why I think that - I just do. I've been thinking (and I think I already said this once): Maybe it's not a punishment. Maybe he's somehow being drawn into the Hellmouth dimension, because of his connection to closing it. And there's another idea - what if Spike is being drawn into the Hellmouth because it isn't closed properly yet? He dumped Sunnydale into the Hellmouth, but there was no door-closing ritual performed to seal it properly, at least not that I noticed. They obviously need a powerful witch, like Willow, to do the job. Mind, this is all speculation from my position of ignorance. Well, I suppose we'll have to wait and see,
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Post by Betsy on Oct 22, 2003 13:16:17 GMT -5
Mwahhhahahaaa... yes, my dear.. you now owe me...and some day, you can fully expect to be asked to repay. *eyes twinkling* Vlad Do you prefer the left side or the right side of the neck?
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Post by Betsy on Oct 22, 2003 13:17:53 GMT -5
Very cool Betsy. Thanks for all the new avatars. Thanks and you're welcome. I'll be making more from the JM picture I got and some from the DB cd I also got. Plus my girlfriend is doing scans of the first 2 issues of the Angel magazine I have.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 22, 2003 13:18:13 GMT -5
This is what I mean. Several theories have been put forth to explain the fading, all good ones. I do think the PTB are involved or have gotten involved, only because Fred keeps saying stuff to that effect. Well... in ep 2, in the lab, she said something about having been brought back to do good, I can't remember. Actually as I think about this, Spike's being a ghost has helped for the forces of good. Ep 2 - the necromancer, Ep 3, finding the info in the trash can. Although it has been said ep 3 was an accident, maybe not. Gotta go, class coming in. I doubt Spike's help in ep3 was "accidental." I don't mean that he consciously, deliberately helped, the way he did in ep 2 - where he so clearly showed us his committment to "good" by selflessly giving up a chance to be corporeal again - even though he'd already gotten a taste of hell - and helped defeat the necromancer. But still, his help with the trashcan thing, though unintentional, was crucial, and I would guess it is not coincidental. I think it is related to why he is back. The forces of evil would surely not want souled Spike around, being a warrior for the forces of good - they'd either want him out of the way, or back on their team . . . maybe his blinking in and out has to do with that struggle. Well - I am hoping for some major answers tonight.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 22, 2003 13:18:31 GMT -5
That is the one thing that is guaranteed to drive me to mass murder - people talking on their cellphones so that everyone and their mother can hear them. It drives me up the wall! I don't mind talking on a cellphone - I do it all the time - but I either do it in private or, if I am in public, I'm discreet about it. I have yelled at people before about it - yet again, one more reason to think I've got a screw loose in my head. Or, I'll get close to them and pretend to be on my cellphone and talk very loudly until they shoot me a dirty look and then smile sweetly and say, "You don't want to hear me and I don't want to hear you." Dadgum, I can be a bitch. My parents wound up in a grocery line behind a girl who was discussing her boyfriend's sexual practices, loudly and in detail, on her cellphone. Gotta wonder what people are thinking of in these cases, or if they're thinking at all. The other people in line were entertained, anyway.
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 22, 2003 13:19:27 GMT -5
I've been thinking (and I think I already said this once): Maybe it's not a punishment. Maybe he's somehow being drawn into the Hellmouth dimension, because of his connection to closing it. And there's another idea - what if Spike is being drawn into the Hellmouth because it isn't closed properly yet? He dumped Sunnydale into the Hellmouth, but there was no door-closing ritual performed to seal it properly, at least not that I noticed. They obviously need a powerful witch, like Willow, to do the job. Mind, this is all speculation from my position of ignorance. Well, I suppose we'll have to wait and see, I like this idea, especially the part where they require my beloved Willow to make an appearance to fix things. My only concern builds from the fact that this season the emphasis is on stand-alone episodes (not that there aren't over-arching storylines, but the emphasis is on the individual story now). Joss wants to make AtS a happy place for the viewer who has never seen the show before. Ok, he doesn't want to, but the WB is making him do it that way. Anyhow, my concern is a storyline that involves that much of a return to the history of the series, and in reality, the history of an entirely other series. I would think they'd be concerned about leaving new viewers cold if they went backward like that, for any reason.
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Post by Betsy on Oct 22, 2003 13:19:36 GMT -5
I've been thinking (and I think I already said this once): Maybe it's not a punishment. Maybe he's somehow being drawn into the Hellmouth dimension, because of his connection to closing it. And there's another idea - what if Spike is being drawn into the Hellmouth because it isn't closed properly yet? He dumped Sunnydale into the Hellmouth, but there was no door-closing ritual performed to seal it properly, at least not that I noticed. They obviously need a powerful witch, like Willow, to do the job. Mind, this is all speculation from my position of ignorance. Well, I suppose we'll have to wait and see, BUt do we really know what's pulling him in and where it's pulling him into? Was the Hellmouth mentioned or is it just an assumption that is being made. Shit . . .I need to go back to work and get something accomplished today. But Lunch is in an hour.
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