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Post by makd on Nov 8, 2003 16:45:09 GMT -5
Off for RL (Like this ISN'T?)
dinner, movie, and major time with MOPS. (hubby: My Own Private Spike - snarky, sometimes obnoxious, devoted, and silver-haired. (What there is of it.)
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Post by Shan on Nov 8, 2003 16:47:44 GMT -5
Shanno we're talking serious wrinklies here. Starts to happen to women after 30-35. The belly thing happens to guys about 35. Many guys? as early as 30. Really? Then I'll count myself lucky to be happy with my elbows *and* my belly LOL! |
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Post by Kerrie on Nov 8, 2003 16:54:07 GMT -5
I pasted this from the last part because it seems to be an ongoing debate. I know a lot of you won't agree with me, but I've decided that Spike & Angel do deserve to feel guilty for the deaths they caused before getting their souls. I base this decision primarily on who their first victims were--not counting the guy in the graveyard when Angelus was raised. Angelus' first true victims were the people who made him unhappy as a human, his family--particularly his father--and the people in the village where he lived. Spike's first siring was his own mother. The choosing of these victims was very deliberate. Angelus acted on the anger and hatred he felt towards those persons, Spike by the love he felt and the desire to save his mother from a slow, lingering death from TB. You can be sure they continued to kill anyone who annoyed them or got in their way, whether they were hungry or not. Remember Spike in School Hard--"I'm a veal man, myself and you're too old to eat, but not to kill". No one can reasonably argue that Spike killed that man because he needed his blood to survive. The analogy of vampires as wolves or other predators doesn't really fit either. Animals don't kill for fun, vampires do. They were both motivated by feelings they had BEFORE they were turned. They can't say later that the demon TOTALLY controlled their actions. They did things they wanted to do BEFORE they were demons--Angel wanted to kill his father and the people in the village who looked down on him and Spike wanted to save his mother. That's why I feel they deserve to feel guilt for their actions AS demons. I have wondered about this too. I seem to recall a prayer (?) during the Catholic service that goes something like: I confess to Almighty Father and to you here present that I have sinned. In my thougts and in my words. In what I have done and what I have failed to do. I have never been to a non-Catholic service so I don't know whether it or some variant is used elsewhere. If Angel is Catholic, as I suspect, he should know it. IMHO it is the thoughts and inaction that would be burdening his conscience now, not his actions as a soulless demon. |
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Post by Spring Summers on Nov 8, 2003 16:57:03 GMT -5
Spring, WtB is out of touch today, thanks to that spiffy new glass and a few blankets, so he can't help you... which browser are you using? If you have both IE and Netscape available, try the one you haven't...and - you probably have done this, but often I have to enter my name and password twice - that is, it takes me back to the login please message, but then on the second try, allows me in. I wish I had more suggestions for you. Have tried both Netscape and IE. Have tried logging in several times in a row. Have tried lowering my security and privacy settings as low as they will go. No go. |
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Post by Betsy on Nov 8, 2003 17:06:19 GMT -5
Course I had to take my own form of creative license with the quote I used in making the next in the series of Spikeisms -- hence Spikeism #3. Go check it out on the Picture Thread when you have the chance.
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Post by Nickim on Nov 8, 2003 17:07:31 GMT -5
I have wondered about this too. I seem to recall a prayer (?) during the Catholic service that goes something like: I confess to Almighty Father and to you here present that I have sinned. In my thougts and in my words. In what I have done and what I have failed to do. I have never been to a non-Catholic service so I don't know whether it or some variant is used elsewhere. If Angel is Catholic, as I suspect, he should know it. IMHO it is the thoughts and inaction that would be burdening his conscience now, not his actions as a soulless demon. Kerrie, I always think of the scripture in James 4: 17 where it says that if we know how to do what's right and don't, it's a sin for us. I know it probably makes some people uncomfortable when I quote the Bible, but it certainly influences my feelings of everything in my life. And besides other people quote other sources, so why not the Bible? BTW, glad to "see" you on the Main Thread.  |
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Post by Rachael on Nov 8, 2003 17:10:23 GMT -5
Cats sometimes get b*tchy when they're left alone. If it hadn't been the glass with the milk residue, it would have been an upturned plant pot or something. One of the cats I used to have thought of me and my bedroom as his personal territory. If I ever left my bedroom door open, he would sneak in and mark my bed or get into my closet and pee all over my shoes. Nasty creature. Dumb as mud, too. Too stupid to even play with string or anything. All he ever wanted was to be picked up and held like a baby while you stroked his stomach. Odd thing, he was. Another cat of mine with a much less unappealing habit used to like to sit on the side of the bathtub while I was bathing. When I was done, and the water almost gone, he would jump in and start drinking it. At toothbrushing time, he liked to stand on the edge of the sink and drink the fresh running water from the tap. That, and he loved the mint toothpaste. He had a total thing for mint. If I left a used peppermint teabag or even the wrapper it came in on the kitchen counter, he would jump up and start chewing on it. He had quite the personality, old Boris (I called him Boris because he used to go out and get his a$$ kicked by the other neighborhood cats and I thought I should give him a tough name; turns out, all it took to stop his getting beat up was to get him neutered). He had a favorite little kitty-sized blankie he used to drag around the house. Whenever he was upset, he used to do the kitty trance-dance on it - you know how they do, kneading with their claws and pulling on the material with their teeth. If he was *really* upset, he'd hump it. We called the blanke "Boris' Girlfriend" and didn't often touch it. On one of our international moves, rather than put him through the ordeal, I gave Boris away to a friend who lived in the country. I hope he's happy chasing field mice and rolling in wild patches of mint. But I'm not getting another cat until my 6yo son stops chasing my dad's cats with a stick. Shanno He's not alone; he's got Alice (the other cat); although she's more a sleep-all-day kind of cat. But I take your point. He's pretty much the most exuberant (and destructive) kitten I've had in a long time. Love him, but sometimes want to kill him. Maybe I shouldn't've named him Spike, huh? I have similar bedroom door problems, but that's just because BOTH cats want to crawl in under the covers and sleep on my fleecy blanket, and frankly I can tolerate cat hair (and little bits of cat litter occasionally) everywhere but in my bed. If they'd stay on top of the comforter, it'd be fine, but they won't, and it's the sort of distinction I've never been able to make a cat understand. I've managed to train him off the kitchen table, but not the coffee table, and only really when I'm home. I don't think there's any such thing as a cat who's trained when you're NOT home.  He does the running water drinking, too - except this morning he fell in. Maybe that's why he was mad. And they both like mint. Tea, toothpaste - weird. Isn't catnip in the mint family? Okay, housework. Can't avoid it any longer. . . .  |
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Post by Reetta on Nov 8, 2003 17:21:36 GMT -5
OK, I thought I'd just stop by briefly yet I'm still here almost two hours later. Not only trying to keep up with your posting but also reading the transcripts of the last couple of episodes at the same time. My thoughts are not getting any clearer but I figured I can't just leave now without saying anything. Excellent thoughts on guilt on page two, Sandy. I totally agree with you, especially on how we shouldn't burden ourselves with guilt. I just wish we could always live by what we think. As for whether vampires feel or deserve to feel guilt, I think there are a couple of lines in Never Leave Me that pertain to this, i.e. Spike saying: "Soul's not all about moonbeam and pennywhistles, luv. It's about self- loathing." A little later he continues: "As bad as I was, as evil and as wretched I was, I never truly hated myself back then. Not like I do now." I'm pretty sure I'm just repeating what someone else has already said but I thought I'd mention it anyway. So I'd go with that. So my conclusion is that (Nicki says this so much better than I ever could, so I will just quote her although she is talking about Angel) it is the thoughts that would be burdening his conscience now, not his actions as a soulless demon. |
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Post by Rachael on Nov 8, 2003 17:36:24 GMT -5
OK, I thought I'd just stop by briefly yet I'm still here almost two hours later. Not only trying to keep up with your posting but also reading the transcripts of the last couple of episodes at the same time. My thoughts are not getting any clearer but I figured I can't just leave now without saying anything. Excellent thoughts on guilt on page two, Sandy. I totally agree with you, especially on how we shouldn't burden ourselves with guilt. I just wish we could always live by what we think. As for whether vampires feel or deserve to feel guilt, I think there are a couple of lines in Never Leave Me that pertain to this, i.e. Spike saying: "Soul's not all about moonbeam and pennywhistles, luv. It's about self- loathing." A little later he continues: "As bad as I was, as evil and as wretched I was, I never truly hated myself back then. Not like I do now." I'm pretty sure I'm just repeating what someone else has already said but I thought I'd mention it anyway. So I'd go with that. So my conclusion is that (Nicki says this so much better than I ever could, so I will just quote her although she is talking about Angel) it is the thoughts that would be burdening his conscience now, not his actions as a soulless demon. Not like it has to be on topic, anyway. . .we've been talking about my cat, and the lunar eclipse, and whatever else has nothing to do with the Jossverse. . . . And still she's procrastinating and not scrubbing the toilet.  |
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Post by Shan on Nov 8, 2003 17:40:41 GMT -5
...I don't think there's any such thing as a cat who's trained when you're NOT home. ... Isn't catnip in the mint family? ( That's why I prefer cats to dogs. I can tolerate disobedience - blatant OR covert - much better than any sort of obsequiousness. And, yes. Catnip is part of the mint family; that's why it's also sometimes called catmint. Shanno |
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Post by Nickim on Nov 8, 2003 17:41:01 GMT -5
He's not alone; he's got Alice (the other cat); although she's more a sleep-all-day kind of cat. But I take your point. He's pretty much the most exuberant (and destructive) kitten I've had in a long time. Love him, but sometimes want to kill him. Maybe I shouldn't've named him Spike, huh? I have similar bedroom door problems, but that's just because BOTH cats want to crawl in under the covers and sleep on my fleecy blanket, and frankly I can tolerate cat hair (and little bits of cat litter occasionally) everywhere but in my bed. If they'd stay on top of the comforter, it'd be fine, but they won't, and it's the sort of distinction I've never been able to make a cat understand. I've managed to train him off the kitchen table, but not the coffee table and only really when I'm home. I don't think there's any such thing as a cat who's trained when you're NOT home. He does the running water drinking, too - except this morning he fell in. Maybe that's why he was mad. And they both like mint. Tea, toothpaste - weird. Isn't catnip in the mint family? Okay, housework. Can't avoid it any longer. . . . Have you tried giving the cats a fluffy blanket of their own. I put one on top of my comforter and both my cats stayed on it. The cat I have now, Dulce, wants to drink from running water. She always comes running when I run water into the bath and stays to watch me take a bath. The cat I used to have, Larla, wouldn't drink from a bowl at all. We always felt bad when we had to leave her for a day or so, 'cause we know she'd be thirsty. We did leave water for her, but the bowl was always at the same level when we returned and the first thing she'd do--after "cussing us out for being gone" was jump in the bathtub for a drink. |
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Post by Shan on Nov 8, 2003 17:43:49 GMT -5
Have you tried giving the cats a fluffy blanket of their own. I put one on top of my comforter and both my cats stayed on it. The cat I have now, Dulce, wants to drink from running water. She always comes running when I run water into the bath and stays to watch me take a bath. The cat I used to have, Larla, wouldn't drink from a bowl at all. We always felt bad when we had to leave her for a day or so, 'cause we know she'd be thirsty. We did leave water for her, but the bowl was always at the same level when we returned and the first thing she'd do--after "cussing us out for being gone" was jump in the bathtub for a drink. About the water - I'm sure I've heard about a device you can buy for your cats that gets around that. Dispenses fresh water for them somehow. It's been a lont time, so I don't remember. Maybe you could do something as simple as leaving a tap dripping just a little bit. Better than nothing, eh? |
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Post by Nickim on Nov 8, 2003 17:49:14 GMT -5
That's why I prefer cats to dogs. I can tolerate disobedience - blatant OR covert - much better than any sort of obsequiousness. And, yes. Catnip is part of the mint family; that's why it's also sometimes called catmint. Shanno Me too. My theory on dogs is that they love pretty much everyone who gives them attention--there are exceptions of course, cats on the other hand, are very picky about whom they show affection to. The cat I used to have was terrified of everyone except my mom & me. I do like dogs, especially big dogs, like German Shepherds and Dobermans, but I certainly prefer cats. None of my recent cats care about catnip. I've read it's a genetic thing, either it affects them or not. |
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Post by Nickim on Nov 8, 2003 17:53:11 GMT -5
About the water - I'm sure I've heard about a device you can buy for your cats that gets around that. Dispenses fresh water for them somehow. It's been a lont time, so I don't remember. Maybe you could do something as simple as leaving a tap dripping just a little bit. Better than nothing, eh? We don't have that cat, anymore. We had to have her put to sleep--I cried for a week. I felt so bad, my uncle died about two weeks after the cat and I didn't even cry at his funeral, but she was my baby--and pets are the only ones I'm ever gonna have, unless I have some stepkids someday. I love the cat we have now, but it's not the same. I've refused to even start letting her drink from the faucet, so she does still drink out of her bowl. |
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 8, 2003 17:53:47 GMT -5
Just finished watching Joss' commentary on "Restless". Quite interesting, especially all the symbolism and eroticism in the dream sequences, much of which I had missed. One thing that really struck me was Joss kept saying that the dream sequence with Tara and Buffy in the bedroom was the first mention of Dawn. A lot is made about Faith's "Little Miss Muffet" reference in "Graduation Day" as also being about Dawn, but according to Joss in this commentary, "Restless" was the first reference to Dawn -- "Be back before Dawn".
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