|
Post by Wendy on Nov 23, 2003 20:08:18 GMT -5
Hey Patti, Cool opening post--very creative. Ditto!
|
|
|
Post by RAKSHA on Nov 23, 2003 20:13:04 GMT -5
Ellie, sorry to be wicked, but do yourself a favor and ask your family for an early present and watch S2 right now. Season 2 with Darla and Drusilla and Lindsey will add immeasureably to your enjoyment of this season of AtS. You can't begin to imagine how good it is. ;D Your Wicked S'cubie friend, Karen Oh, YEAH! ANGEL Season 2 absolutely rocks! It's my favorite ANGEL Season so far, though the current season is giving it strong competition. Julie Benz is a magnificent actress. And Dru's entrance after the trial still gives me the chills. When Drusilla is in true predator mode (as in her entrance into the library in BECOMING Part One) she is deadly serious and lethal, the haunted and addled child-part of her turned off for the moment...Angel went down into his own dark depths without turning into Angelus in S2, and what a treat for the viewers that was....
GAIL
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 23, 2003 20:19:14 GMT -5
The Bloody Awfuls (among others) ran that thanks ad to JM in Variety (we have it on our pics thread, kindness of Patti, I think). This is his response, per Buffy.nu:
To all those fans who were a part of "Support Spike", "The Bloody Awful Poet Society" and the worldwide community of Spike fans, YOU ROCK! The ads you took out blew me away. You guys are my inspiration to keep Spike alive and kicking ass. I hope you continue to enjoy this season of Angel".
|
|
|
Post by RAKSHA on Nov 23, 2003 20:19:59 GMT -5
Dave- Is that vagueness deliberate do you think or just a function of who is writing for the show at that particular time? I to, have a bit of a problem with the strong demarcation drawn between Angelus/Angel. Maybe that sharp demarcation between the demon and the Souled Champion is Angel's way of keeping sane. He's done things, as Angelus, that damn and haunt him; perhaps the only way he can survive and procede on a day-to-day basis is to tell himself that he and Angelus are different, separate parts of himself.
GAIL
|
|
|
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 23, 2003 20:21:00 GMT -5
From Buffycollector.com Win Very Spike Christmas Basket 2003 - 11 - 23rd Win Very Spike Christmas Basket Just in time for Christmas! The Buffy Store, in association with CineQuest.com, is giving away a Very Spike Christmas Basket. Included are a Spike 2004 calendar, Sideshow Spike 12" Figure, Spike Human Face and Vampire Face Ornaments! Contest is open to United States residents 18 and older. Contest begins November 23, 2003 and ends December 23, 2003. The winner will be notified on Christmas morning! (December 25, 2003) The winner will then be posted here after December 25, 2003. Click here to participate : www.buffycollector.com/basket/enter.htm More details here : www.buffycollector.com/basket/
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Nov 23, 2003 20:23:10 GMT -5
Hmm. . .I remember this a little differently - the snow every winter was a result of Demeter mourning the loss of her daughter and crying over it. If that's the case, then the fact that Buffy (and, for that matter, Angel) were just crying makes the snow even more interesting - did they do it, or were the PTBs interfering? Rachael- evening- (settling in with chocolate and seltzer *to clear the-never mind- champagne works better but it IS Sunday* your memory does make more the story more emotionally valid- I am trying to remember what version I read (lo these many years ago) that proffered that interpretation- I swear I did not make it up whole cloth - the story really did say that was the purpose of the snow- Now- I 'd be curious to know - what in the original Greek story elicited that translation? These pesky translators- one never knows what their agenda is. You sent me scrambling for any of my various books of mythology-Bullfinch or the Edith (?) one and wouldn't you know- I can find neither. I must tear myself away from this board and clear away the Collier brothers' like mess of books and newspapers that daily threaten to engulf us.
|
|
|
Post by ldelrossi on Nov 23, 2003 20:24:13 GMT -5
Dave - I understand that on Buffy we accepted the dual nature of Angel/Angelus. And when he became evil Angelus he did stay around for a while wreaking havoc. But doesn't it happen a bit on Angel?
In ETERNITY, Rebecca drugs Angel and he reverts briefly to Angelus - feeding her blood, throwing her around and promising to put her head on a stick. He makes cruel statements to Wes and Cordelia. Later he wakes up as Angel chained to the bed. Cordelia asks "Are you still evil?" Wesley says "You walk a fine line Angel. I don't envy you."
In Season 4, Angelus comes out to play after his soul is removed. When he's with Faith in her dream, Angelus reveals that he lives in torment just beneath the surface, constantly trying to get out. Angel and Angelus actually physically fight.
To me this shows that he must be constantly vigilent to contain Angelus. To do this, he goes off alone to shore up his will/strength to keep Angelus at bay.
|
|
|
Post by DaveCrenshaw on Nov 23, 2003 20:25:19 GMT -5
From Buffycollector.com Win Very Spike Christmas Basket 2003 - 11 - 23rd Win Very Spike Christmas Basket Just in time for Christmas! The Buffy Store, in association with CineQuest.com, is giving away a Very Spike Christmas Basket. Included are a Spike 2004 calendar, Sideshow Spike 12" Figure, Spike Human Face and Vampire Face Ornaments! Contest is open to United States residents 18 and older. Contest begins November 23, 2003 and ends December 23, 2003. The winner will be notified on Christmas morning! (December 25, 2003) The winner will then be posted here after December 25, 2003. Click here to participate : www.buffycollector.com/basket/enter.htm More details here : www.buffycollector.com/basket/The Spike figure isn't due out until next summer -- do the winners get theirs early?
|
|
|
Post by Shan on Nov 23, 2003 20:27:32 GMT -5
Nan, I don't know if our guest Julia mentioned it, but ADHD and bi-polar disorder are sometimes associated. Many bi-polar adults were ADHD as children. My father was ADHD as a child, but it wasn't recognized as such back in the 50's, so he was just a "bad" kid. He was also diagnosed as bi-polar many years ago. It's not severe - he functions well and, ironically enough, teaches HS kids who have emotional/behavioral and/or learning problems. Now that I see him much more often than I have since I was 9 years old, I'm beginning to recognize when he's not taking his medication He's either chopping down trees and writing novels from 4am or sleeping/watching TV constantly. Thankfully, he doesn't drink any more! Just thought I'd throw that in there for your rumination... Shanno
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Nov 23, 2003 20:30:30 GMT -5
Maybe that sharp demarcation between the demon and the Souled Champion is Angel's way of keeping sane. He's done things, as Angelus, that damn and haunt him; perhaps the only way he can survive and procede on a day-to-day basis is to tell himself that he and Angelus are different, separate parts of himself.
GAIL agreed- Gail- I understand Angel's strong need to draw a distinction- what I question is what exactly the writers' perspective on the demarcation is? - that is what seems a trifle inconsistent-
|
|
|
Post by Wendy on Nov 23, 2003 20:35:26 GMT -5
I, as well - although I feel it's a matter of deliberate characterization. Angel doesn't want to acknowledge that Angelus is, well, him. And neither do folks like Gunn and Cordy, etc. Amends reveals that Angel does know that the evil is in him, and he needs to control it; however, he spent a large part of Season 4 telling himself (and everyone else) that they're two seperate entities. In Amends, Buffy knew, too. It's like she was dealing with a substance-abusing ex (deliberately like that). "He's slipping, Giles. I think we're losing him." And Giles never once acted like the two were seperate. "Frankly, the last time you became complacent about your purpose in life, things turned out rather badly." ITA, I believe it is a matter of deliberate characterization. It's as much to convince the FG of this duality, as it is to convince himself. I mentioned in an earlier post that I thought this is something that Angel is going to have to overcome, and I believe Spike could be the person to help.
|
|
|
Post by Wendy on Nov 23, 2003 20:44:42 GMT -5
Hi, Wendy! Sorry, I was so busy reading, I hadn't noticed your fine new avatar - and I like the combination of quotes, too. Thanks, I had picked out a completly different avatar and quotes earlier in the week, but after watching Destiny, I felt inspired to Shanshu Spike. I felt inspired to do alot of things to Spike, but I'll save that for Wacky Wednesday, when anything goes on this board.
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Nov 23, 2003 20:49:38 GMT -5
Thanks, I had picked out a completly different avatar and quotes earlier in the week, but after watching Destiny, I felt inspired to Shanshu Spike. I felt inspired to do alot of things to Spike, but I'll save that for Wacky Wednesday, when anything goes on this board. Aww. . .nothing for us single gals?
|
|
|
Post by ellie on Nov 23, 2003 20:51:19 GMT -5
Wnde1drs said- I must agree with Dave here. I think it has been a long time coming that Angel has to deal with this split personality of his. I believe that Spike dealt with his soul better and easier than Angel for this reason. He doesn't seperate himself from the demon, he accepts them both. He doesn't have the split, and this may be because of the chip and his having to live as a soulless demon without being able to hurt humans and was able to stop seeing them as happy meals with legs and seeing them as worthy of their existence. Of course, it may also be that he was never a normal vampire and had more humanity than other vamps (just ask the Judge, from Season 2). I think if Angel were to integrate the two selves, his demon and his soul, he would have more control over his demon. To isolate the demon is to not accept him, and the demon is so much a part of who Angel is, yet he ignores this, and it seems to make the demon more determined to have the control when he is finally released. He needs to find the happy medium or he will forever have to worry about Angelus re-emerging and wreaking the carnage he is so famous for. You don't see Spike refering to himself as William the souled vamp and Spike the demon. I hope Spike is the one who helps Angel with this assimilation Good point- Angel will provide that moral barometer that Spike has "misplaced" and Spike will jauntily provide Angel with the impetus to re-integrate his "disassociated" selves -if only in self protection from the jibes
|
|
|
Post by Linda on Nov 23, 2003 20:56:02 GMT -5
ITA, I believe it is a matter of deliberate characterization. It's as much to convince the FG of this duality, as it is to convince himself. I mentioned in an earlier post that I thought this is something that Angel is going to have to overcome, and I believe Spike could be the person to help. ITA, too! And I think the writers' perspective is that an accomodation needs to take place. In Beneath You, just before Spike asks for rest, he says: "...everyone I [harmed] ... and him (I assume William) and it (I assume the demon) ... is telling me to go to hell." Even if Spike is arguably insane at this point, he still has an identity and it seems to be distinct from both the human and demon.
|
|