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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 10, 2006 20:00:52 GMT -5
Having never been a professional con artist, I know nothing about that life or that jargon - but here's how it seemed to me: I don't really see what Sawyer did in the ep (on the island) as a Long Con (like he did with Cassie) because I think he's referring to "length of time." You need money - a stake - for the Long Con, because it takes time and you have to seem trustworthy and financially secure during that time. I see what he did on the island this week as more of a Short Con. Like what he did to the rich boys a the gas pump. He dangled what he knew people wanted in their faces (as you say, used his knowledge of the way others would react), they quickly took the bait, he made his move - and voila - he got what he was after. But I do think the whole ep suggests that a Long Con is running - I'm not sure Sawyer is the one running it though. I wonder if the idea isn't related to the "button pushing." What I mean is, I wonder if the initial researchers (or whatever forces) aren't running a "Long Con" on the island, trying to play the people that get stranded there, toward some end. I think you could argue that it was a long con, given the way Sawyer described the con itself: it's about getting other people to do what you want them to do while all along they think it was their idea. Given Jack's reaction to Michael's disappearance, Sawyer had excellent reason to believe he'd want to gather the forces to get whoever took Sun; from their interactions, Sawyer also knew Locke wouldn't jump right onboard that train. And he knew Kate would have little trouble believing ill of Ana Lucia, given that she was already jealous of how much time she and Jack were spending together. So all Sawyer had to do was make the right comment/inference at the right time--all three of them behaved exactly as he'd expected, resulting in Sawyer gaining possession of the guns entirely through actions taken voluntarily by the other three. I agree totally with this last part, just can't see how it qualifes as "long." I thought that description about "getting them to think it was their own idea" was more about cons in general, than specific to a "long" con - I mean, he did that with the boys at the gas pump. He got them thinking they wanted those necklaces. If "long" doesn't refer to time, what else would it refer to? Again, I'm no expert on this terminology, but it doesn't make sense to me any other way.
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Post by Karen on Feb 10, 2006 21:20:11 GMT -5
I think you could argue that it was a long con, given the way Sawyer described the con itself: it's about getting other people to do what you want them to do while all along they think it was their idea. Given Jack's reaction to Michael's disappearance, Sawyer had excellent reason to believe he'd want to gather the forces to get whoever took Sun; from their interactions, Sawyer also knew Locke wouldn't jump right onboard that train. And he knew Kate would have little trouble believing ill of Ana Lucia, given that she was already jealous of how much time she and Jack were spending together. So all Sawyer had to do was make the right comment/inference at the right time--all three of them behaved exactly as he'd expected, resulting in Sawyer gaining possession of the guns entirely through actions taken voluntarily by the other three. I agree totally with this last part, just can't see how it qualifes as "long." I thought that description about "getting them to think it was their own idea" was more about cons in general, than specific to a "long" con - I mean, he did that with the boys at the gas pump. He got them thinking they wanted those necklaces. If " long" doesn't refer to time, what else would it refer to? Again, I'm no expert on this terminology, but it doesn't make sense to me any other way. You may be right - about there being a Long Con in progress. I can buy that. What had me thinking that the 'long' part ( ) referred to Sawyer's manipulation from the very beginning, was the way they showed the flashback - that ended with the Long Con being shown right before (or after) the revelation that Sawyer had played Kate, et al. About the Long part referring to time - I think time on the island is very wonky - and we did see Hurley bring up the matter of time in the last scene - right before Sawyer and Charlie's final scene.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 11, 2006 7:49:41 GMT -5
Interesting to compare how Hurley ended up handling all the food in the hatch, and how everyone else ended up handling the guns and such.
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Post by Karen on Feb 11, 2006 13:08:33 GMT -5
Interesting to compare how Hurley ended up handling all the food in the hatch, and how everyone else ended up handling the guns and such. Hmm. I wonder how Hurley would've handled the guns. Tossed them in the ocean?
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Post by Sara on Feb 11, 2006 15:23:56 GMT -5
Random observation:
I'm finding it interesting that while last year all of our castaways seemed to be confronting their demons and moving forward, even if only a little bit, this season we're watching some of them--like Charlie and Sawyer--regress.
In Sawyer's case, I'd agree with Kate in that he seems to want people to despise him. He played the self-righteous card during his little monologue, knowing that if any one of them had been on the raft in his stead he'd have plundered their belongings faster that you can say "stash"--and, I suspect, knowing those listening would see his hypocrisy almost immediately. Moreover, he claimed he wasn't a good person--yet we know that, only a week or so earlier, he did a very good thing in relating what Dr. Shepherd said of his son to Jack. Not to mention the con he called off when he realized a kid was involved.
Myself, I have to wonder if he didn't come up with the idea for such a con when Kate told him no one hated him anymore, and solidified what he plan would be after Jack's confrontation with the Others. Hmmm...
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Post by Wendy on Feb 12, 2006 17:32:21 GMT -5
The song that Hurley and Sayid picked up on the radio was, as everyone knows, Moonlight Serenade. This is one of my all time favorite songs, Glenn Miller's version being my favorite.
In 1944, Glenn Miller recorded propaganda broadcasts in England with his Army Air Force Band and aired in Nazi Germany and throughout Europe. A female announcer speaks (mostly in German); Miller alternates between German and English, and Johnny Desmond sings quite effectively in German. This album is titled: Lost Recordings
These recordings were made just weeks before his plane went missing while flying over the English Channel.
Two songs that catch my attention on this album are,
Moonlight Serenade and Tail-End Charlie.
I actually prefer the instrumental version, but in case anyone is interested, here are the lyrics:
I stand at your gate and the song that I sing is of moonlight I stand and I wait for the touch of your hand in the June night The roses are sighing a Moonlight Serenade.
The stars are aglow and tonight how their light sets me dreaming. My love, do you know that your eyes are like stars brightly beaming? I bring you and I sing you a Moonlight Serenade
Let us stray till break of day in love's valley of dreams. Just you and I, a summer sky, a heavenly breeze kissin' the trees.
So don't let me wait, come to me tenderly in the June night. I stand at your gate and I sing you a song in the moonlight A love song, my darling, a Moonlight Serenade.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 12, 2006 19:30:36 GMT -5
Rewatching Notes: Locke makes Jack promise that the two of them will always open the safe together, but later Locke opens it without him... because he wanted to do it before Jack did. Sawyer lost his reading glasses, which he requires to see fine detail, yet he can tell (well, not really) the hood is not the same as The Others used Hurley's song reference. What is the song, context, etc? Not familiar to me. My mom the wise one recognized that Sun's attacker had a wristwatch. The Others noticably don't have shoes, keys, wallets, and one would presume watches. Jack was later holding a similar looking watch, when he was watching Sun. Need money for a long con- true or not? Connection between Sawyer and his speech to the group in the end and Bearded Guys speech to the group in Hunting Party. Sawyer filling the "leadership" void. Radio Station WX**, American. Very interesting notes, Liz! The remember seeing the flash of watch when Sun was being 'taken'. On the rewatch, I saw that it was Sun's. The person assaulting her had long black sleeves - same as Charlie's hoodie. Sawyer said you need money for the Long Con. They don't have money on the island, so what did he use to accomplish the Long Con - knowledge of his fellow castaways' weaknesses? Are you asking about "Moonlight Serenade" - Hurley's song reference? Written by Glen Miller in 1939. Big WWII song. No not that song. his "you got put the lime in the coconut" or some such thing, when he brought the radio to Sayid in the first place.
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Post by Wendy on Feb 12, 2006 19:42:07 GMT -5
The manuscript that Hurley found was entitled Bad Twin. It was written by Gary Troup. It is on sale at Amazon. Bad TwinHere is the description: Sometimes evil has a familiar face . . .
Paul Artisan, P.I. is a new version of an old breed -- a righter of wrongs, someone driven to get to the bottom of things. Too bad his usual cases are of the boring malpractice and fraud variety. Until now.
His new gig turns on the disappearance of one of a pair of twins, adult scions of a rich but tragedy-prone family. The missing twin -- a charismatic poster-boy for irresponsibility -- has spent his life daring people to hate him, punishing himself endlessly for his screw-ups and misdeeds. The other twin -- Artisan's client -- is dutiful and resentful in equal measure, bewildered that his "other half" could have turned out so badly, and wracked by guilt at his inability to reform him. He has a more practical reason, as well, for wanting his brother found: their crazy father, in failing health and with guilty secrets of his own, will not divide the family fortune until both siblings are accounted for.
But it isn't just a fortune that's at stake here. Truth itself is up for grabs, as the detective's discoveries seem to challenge everything we think we know about identity, and human nature, and family. As Artisan journeys across the globe to track down the bad twin, he seems to have moved into a mirror-world where friends and enemies have a way of looking very much alike. The P.I. may have his long-awaited chance to put his courage and ideals to the test, but if he doesn't get to the bottom of this case soon, it could very well cost him his life.
Troup's long-awaited Bad Twin is a suspenseful novel that touches on many powerful themes, including the consequence of vengeance, the power of redemption, and where to turn when all seems lost.
About the Author Bad Twin is the highly-anticipated new novel by acclaimed mystery writer Gary Troup. Bad Twin was delivered to Hyperion just days before Troup boarded Oceanic Flight 815, which was lost in flight from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles in September 2004. He remains missing and is presumed dead. Sounds like the missing twin is very much like Sawyer. Just for fun, Gary Troup is an anagram for purgatory.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 13, 2006 13:14:53 GMT -5
The manuscript that Hurley found was entitled Bad Twin. It was written by Gary Troup. It is on sale at Amazon. Bad TwinHere is the description: Sometimes evil has a familiar face . . .
Paul Artisan, P.I. is a new version of an old breed -- a righter of wrongs, someone driven to get to the bottom of things. Too bad his usual cases are of the boring malpractice and fraud variety. Until now.
His new gig turns on the disappearance of one of a pair of twins, adult scions of a rich but tragedy-prone family. The missing twin -- a charismatic poster-boy for irresponsibility -- has spent his life daring people to hate him, punishing himself endlessly for his screw-ups and misdeeds. The other twin -- Artisan's client -- is dutiful and resentful in equal measure, bewildered that his "other half" could have turned out so badly, and wracked by guilt at his inability to reform him. He has a more practical reason, as well, for wanting his brother found: their crazy father, in failing health and with guilty secrets of his own, will not divide the family fortune until both siblings are accounted for.
But it isn't just a fortune that's at stake here. Truth itself is up for grabs, as the detective's discoveries seem to challenge everything we think we know about identity, and human nature, and family. As Artisan journeys across the globe to track down the bad twin, he seems to have moved into a mirror-world where friends and enemies have a way of looking very much alike. The P.I. may have his long-awaited chance to put his courage and ideals to the test, but if he doesn't get to the bottom of this case soon, it could very well cost him his life.
Troup's long-awaited Bad Twin is a suspenseful novel that touches on many powerful themes, including the consequence of vengeance, the power of redemption, and where to turn when all seems lost.
About the Author Bad Twin is the highly-anticipated new novel by acclaimed mystery writer Gary Troup. Bad Twin was delivered to Hyperion just days before Troup boarded Oceanic Flight 815, which was lost in flight from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles in September 2004. He remains missing and is presumed dead. Sounds like the missing twin is very much like Sawyer. Just for fun, Gary Troup is an anagram for purgatory. Huh..... Fraternal twins, I'm hoping: I don't wanna see Holloway playing identical cousins. Who could the other be? Jack? Locke? Michael? Hurley? No, they all have their own reasons for being in Australia.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 13, 2006 13:16:43 GMT -5
ROB! You rock like a rocking thing. I hadn't considered the affect that bit of trust-giving would have on Sawyer, in relation to Jack digging through his "stuff."
And VERY well done, on the observation about how love was used against him, in the longest of long cons.
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Post by fish1941 on Feb 13, 2006 15:28:17 GMT -5
ROB! You rock like a rocking thing. I hadn't considered the affect that bit of trust-giving would have on Sawyer, in relation to Jack digging through his "stuff." And VERY well done, on the observation about how love was used against him, in the longest of long cons. My question is . . . how Sawyer got his hands on the medicine (which should have been with other medication) in the first place? What was he doing with it? The island is a different situation than "Back in the World". Why was Sawyer hoarding it in the first place? I found this description of grifters from www.losttv-forum.com:
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Post by Karen on Feb 13, 2006 16:59:56 GMT -5
Very interesting notes, Liz! The remember seeing the flash of watch when Sun was being 'taken'. On the rewatch, I saw that it was Sun's. The person assaulting her had long black sleeves - same as Charlie's hoodie. Sawyer said you need money for the Long Con. They don't have money on the island, so what did he use to accomplish the Long Con - knowledge of his fellow castaways' weaknesses? Are you asking about "Moonlight Serenade" - Hurley's song reference? Written by Glen Miller in 1939. Big WWII song. No not that song. his "you got put the lime in the coconut" or some such thing, when he brought the radio to Sayid in the first place. Oh, that one! Written the year I graduated HS. Coconut Writer: Harry Nilsson Publisher: EMI Blackwood Music Recorded: June, 1971 Producer: Richard Perry Brother bought a coconut, he bought it for a dime His sister had another, she paid it for a lime. She put the lime in the coconut, and drank them both up She put the lime in the coconut, and drank them both up She put the lime in the coconut, Called the doctor, woke him up, and said, "Doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take, I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache? I say, Doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take, I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache?" "Now let me get this straight; You put the lime in the coconut, you drank them both up You put the lime in the coconut, you drank them both up You put the lime in the coconut, called your doctor, woke him up, and said, 'Doctor, ain't there nothing I can take, I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache? I say, Doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take, I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache?' You put the lime in the coconut, and drink them both down, You put the lime in the cocount, you're such a silly woman! Put the lime in the coconut, and drink them both together, Put the lime in the coconut, and call me in the morning." Harry Nilsson biography: www.classicbands.com/nilsson.html
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 13, 2006 21:23:41 GMT -5
Rob:
#ROFL1#
Loved your review. Such a fun read. Even though I was kinda insulted by this:
Add 40 pounds and a few inches…of height (minds out of the gutter, ladies).
Well, I was insulted for my fellow female S’cubies, as I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean me.
Your description of Sawyer and his motivation for pulling that “con” on Jack & Locke and the others was PERFECT. The whole episode featured talk of isolation and alienation and break-ups . . . really pointed us to what motivates Sawyer. He easily feels hurt and outcast and marginalized – BETRAYED - and that turns, not into tears or recognition of the hurt and sharing of the hurt (and moving on), but into anger and a desire for vengeance. (Great distinction between vengeance and justice, and I agree, Sawyer is after the former.)
Loved your description of how he got to where he is, in this part: James Ford was the victim of the longest of long cons, literally decades in the making. The cardinal rule: love plus weakness spells opportunity for the kind of people with whom he associated…and as a result, the character we meet following the crash of Flight 815 is a reinforced Sawyer, now and forever. It would be no easy trick breaking through that shell.
I adore the Jim Croce quote!!
And of course, this ending: And…I’m spent. Hope you enjoyed.
Yes. It was good for me too.
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Post by Sara on Feb 13, 2006 22:13:22 GMT -5
Rob.
You rock. It is my fervent hope that some day I write a review half as funny as one of yours. And I really enjoyed your observations about Sawyer's issues with love and trust as they relate to his actions in this ep.
Did I mention you rock?
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Post by Sara on Feb 13, 2006 22:14:34 GMT -5
The manuscript that Hurley found was entitled Bad Twin. It was written by Gary Troup. It is on sale at Amazon. Bad TwinHere is the description: Sometimes evil has a familiar face . . .
Paul Artisan, P.I. is a new version of an old breed -- a righter of wrongs, someone driven to get to the bottom of things. Too bad his usual cases are of the boring malpractice and fraud variety. Until now.
His new gig turns on the disappearance of one of a pair of twins, adult scions of a rich but tragedy-prone family. The missing twin -- a charismatic poster-boy for irresponsibility -- has spent his life daring people to hate him, punishing himself endlessly for his screw-ups and misdeeds. The other twin -- Artisan's client -- is dutiful and resentful in equal measure, bewildered that his "other half" could have turned out so badly, and wracked by guilt at his inability to reform him. He has a more practical reason, as well, for wanting his brother found: their crazy father, in failing health and with guilty secrets of his own, will not divide the family fortune until both siblings are accounted for.
But it isn't just a fortune that's at stake here. Truth itself is up for grabs, as the detective's discoveries seem to challenge everything we think we know about identity, and human nature, and family. As Artisan journeys across the globe to track down the bad twin, he seems to have moved into a mirror-world where friends and enemies have a way of looking very much alike. The P.I. may have his long-awaited chance to put his courage and ideals to the test, but if he doesn't get to the bottom of this case soon, it could very well cost him his life.
Troup's long-awaited Bad Twin is a suspenseful novel that touches on many powerful themes, including the consequence of vengeance, the power of redemption, and where to turn when all seems lost.
About the Author Bad Twin is the highly-anticipated new novel by acclaimed mystery writer Gary Troup. Bad Twin was delivered to Hyperion just days before Troup boarded Oceanic Flight 815, which was lost in flight from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles in September 2004. He remains missing and is presumed dead. Sounds like the missing twin is very much like Sawyer. Just for fun, Gary Troup is an anagram for purgatory. Thank you--you saved me the work of putting "Gary Troup" through the internet anagram server.
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