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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 15, 2006 11:33:20 GMT -5
Rob, your review was as good as everyone has already said. I laughed. I cried "Aha!" Chewy bullet points. Also, all you guys rock. It never would have occurred to me to check out "The Lost Twin" and the fact that it exists as a book sold by Amazon and the description of the writer--I'm amazed at the thoroughness of the writers. I had pretty much just started focusing on the characters in watching this series, but the book thing has so increased my respect for the planning and purposefulness of the writers that I'm back to getting excited about the "details." I knew about Glenn Miller and Moonlight Serenade and Miller's disappearance, but I'd forgotten that Johnny Desmond sang with his band. It crossed my mind that they didn't show us by accident the title of the book Locke was riffling, but as I was no longer noting details, the Bierce/missing connection went right by me. So anyway, now that I'm back into the details, I reread "The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge." A site with the complete text and an excellent commentary is here: extend.unb.ca/wss/1145demo/owl2.htm#ironicIf you make the window narrow enough, the commentary will line up with the text. The whole thing took me only a few minutes to read. So now I think the writers want us to think that the entire story is happening only in the brains of the characters--or one of the characters (the only one with an altered physical characteristic, the one holding the book: Locke? )--as they die in the crash. Is THAT the "Long Con?" Other than that, the man being hanged was lured on the fatal mission by an enemy masquerading as a compatriot. On the "all in a character's brain" thing - various things have given me this idea before too. Though if they go this direction - i.e., years from now, in the series finale, we learn it all took place in Locke, or Kate's, or Hurely's brain . . . it would be so very lame. Not that it might not happen. But we'd have to believe not just that everything that happened on the island was the false creation of a dying, water-logged brain, but that all the backstories, which fit so perfectly to explain the characters actions and such, were also false creations. It could be done, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that there have been hints pointing us in that direction - but I would hate to see that. To me, it would be so . . . unsatisfactory as an ending.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 15, 2006 12:43:43 GMT -5
Rob, your review was as good as everyone has already said. I laughed. I cried "Aha!" Chewy bullet points. Also, all you guys rock. It never would have occurred to me to check out "The Lost Twin" and the fact that it exists as a book sold by Amazon and the description of the writer--I'm amazed at the thoroughness of the writers. I had pretty much just started focusing on the characters in watching this series, but the book thing has so increased my respect for the planning and purposefulness of the writers that I'm back to getting excited about the "details." I knew about Glenn Miller and Moonlight Serenade and Miller's disappearance, but I'd forgotten that Johnny Desmond sang with his band. It crossed my mind that they didn't show us by accident the title of the book Locke was riffling, but as I was no longer noting details, the Bierce/missing connection went right by me. So anyway, now that I'm back into the details, I reread "The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge." A site with the complete text and an excellent commentary is here: extend.unb.ca/wss/1145demo/owl2.htm#ironicIf you make the window narrow enough, the commentary will line up with the text. The whole thing took me only a few minutes to read. So now I think the writers want us to think that the entire story is happening only in the brains of the characters--or one of the characters (the only one with an altered physical characteristic, the one holding the book: Locke? )--as they die in the crash. Is THAT the "Long Con?" Other than that, the man being hanged was lured on the fatal mission by an enemy masquerading as a compatriot. On the "all in a character's brain" thing - various things have given me this idea before too. Though if they go this direction - i.e., years from now, in the series finale, we learn it all took place in Locke, or Kate's, or Hurely's brain . . . it would be so very lame. Not that it might not happen. But we'd have to believe not just that everything that happened on the island was the false creation of a dying, water-logged brain, but that all the backstories, which fit so perfectly to explain the characters actions and such, were also false creations. It could be done, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that there have been hints pointing us in that direction - but I would hate to see that. To me, it would be so . . . unsatisfactory as an ending. I'm very much of the opinion that all the wackiness on the island will eventually reveal themselves to have very down to earth causes. They seem wacky because we don't have all the information. I'm thinking that the fantasy/sci-fi element will be kept to a minimum. We'll see.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 15, 2006 14:06:59 GMT -5
On the "all in a character's brain" thing - various things have given me this idea before too. Though if they go this direction - i.e., years from now, in the series finale, we learn it all took place in Locke, or Kate's, or Hurely's brain . . . it would be so very lame. Not that it might not happen. But we'd have to believe not just that everything that happened on the island was the false creation of a dying, water-logged brain, but that all the backstories, which fit so perfectly to explain the characters actions and such, were also false creations. It could be done, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that there have been hints pointing us in that direction - but I would hate to see that. To me, it would be so . . . unsatisfactory as an ending. I'm very much of the opinion that all the wackiness on the island will eventually reveal themselves to have very down to earth causes. They seem wacky because we don't have all the information. I'm thinking that the fantasy/sci-fi element will be kept to a minimum. We'll see. **nods** I think they'll keep introducing elements that could be explained by natural or "supernatural" causes. And, in the end, it will all be explained in a fairly "real world" way. But, that's just my guess . . . so far . . . and who knows what will really happen. ;D
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 15, 2006 16:40:47 GMT -5
I'm very much of the opinion that all the wackiness on the island will eventually reveal themselves to have very down to earth causes. They seem wacky because we don't have all the information. I'm thinking that the fantasy/sci-fi element will be kept to a minimum. We'll see. **nods** I think they'll keep introducing elements that could be explained by natural or "supernatural" causes. And, in the end, it will all be explained in a fairly "real world" way. But, that's just my guess . . . so far . . . and who knows what will really happen. ;D That's the way I would like it to be. And there are hints that suggest that direction, also. I have a tendency to agree with you and Liz, Lola . . . though I'm not sure how much of that is wishful thinking on my part.
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Post by fish1941 on Feb 15, 2006 19:21:14 GMT -5
I have just recently re-read a couple of reviews about this episode and it disturbs me on how so many go to a great deal of trouble to justify Sawyer's actions. I think that the reason so many are justifying his actions is because they simply go for the anti-hero archtype. That's it. I really could not find a good reason for Sawyer's con job.
The guns are not a reason. Sawyer didn't give a rat's ass about the guns until Jack took his meds from his tent. Mind you, Jack had no business entering his tent without his permission. But Sawyer had no business possessing the medicine in the first place. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Sawyer had allowed his resentment of Jack to lead him into pulling the con in the first place. Just as I'm convinced that Jack's jealousy had led him to order Kate to return to the hatch, instead of joining the hunt for Michael. Nor do I think that any anti-hero sentiments can really excuse Sawyer's actions . . . especially since no one had bothered to turn to him for leadership or ask him to be the leader. And especially since Sun ended up getting hurt, due to his little scheme, in the first place.
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Post by Jan on Feb 16, 2006 8:30:45 GMT -5
Rob, your review was as good as everyone has already said. I laughed. I cried "Aha!" Chewy bullet points. Also, all you guys rock. It never would have occurred to me to check out "The Lost Twin" and the fact that it exists as a book sold by Amazon and the description of the writer--I'm amazed at the thoroughness of the writers. I had pretty much just started focusing on the characters in watching this series, but the book thing has so increased my respect for the planning and purposefulness of the writers that I'm back to getting excited about the "details." I knew about Glenn Miller and Moonlight Serenade and Miller's disappearance, but I'd forgotten that Johnny Desmond sang with his band. It crossed my mind that they didn't show us by accident the title of the book Locke was riffling, but as I was no longer noting details, the Bierce/missing connection went right by me. So anyway, now that I'm back into the details, I reread "The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge." A site with the complete text and an excellent commentary is here: extend.unb.ca/wss/1145demo/owl2.htm#ironicIf you make the window narrow enough, the commentary will line up with the text. The whole thing took me only a few minutes to read. So now I think the writers want us to think that the entire story is happening only in the brains of the characters--or one of the characters (the only one with an altered physical characteristic, the one holding the book: Locke? )--as they die in the crash. Is THAT the "Long Con?" Other than that, the man being hanged was lured on the fatal mission by an enemy masquerading as a compatriot. On the "all in a character's brain" thing - various things have given me this idea before too. Though if they go this direction - i.e., years from now, in the series finale, we learn it all took place in Locke, or Kate's, or Hurely's brain . . . it would be so very lame. Not that it might not happen. But we'd have to believe not just that everything that happened on the island was the false creation of a dying, water-logged brain, but that all the backstories, which fit so perfectly to explain the characters actions and such, were also false creations. It could be done, and I agree with you wholeheartedly that there have been hints pointing us in that direction - but I would hate to see that. To me, it would be so . . . unsatisfactory as an ending.#metoo# But of course, it is not beyond the writers to want us to think that way.
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Post by dr76 on Jan 10, 2012 19:04:04 GMT -5
Is this guy actually comparing Sawyer to fictional heroes? Really? Sawyer is equivalent to Superman? Oh Lord!
Sawyer really disgusted me in this episode. So did Jack and Locke. But Sawyer proved that he was no better. And his rant against the castaways for taking his stuff after he left the island was so infantile that I could only look away in disgust.
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