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Post by Betsy on Aug 11, 2003 23:47:53 GMT -5
There are some spoiler hanging around, Spoiledrotten added:
Episode 3 Spoilers -- Destinies are Us Aug 8, 2003
Casting sides for Episode 3 have begun to surface. There are three parts, Jill, Nina, and Amanda. Here's a summary of the details:
Fred makes a reference to Angel killing Spike with a pen.
At the beginning of the episode, we're introduced to Nina, a young woman in her 20's. She's having trouble sleeping and has a bite mark on her arm and her neck is bruised.
She gets up and finds her sister, Jill, and her niece, Amanda (who's 9) making lunch in the kitchen. They ask Nina's what's wrong, but she brushes them off. Something strange starts happening to Nina, and she hallucinates that the little girl has her throat slashed by a claws.
A little later in the episode, Angel, Gunn and Wesley are doing some investigating, and looking for Nina.
Next Nina and Amanda are playing at her apartment. With moonlight shinning in the window behind her, Nina starts going into convulsions Her eyes start glowing, and she starts growing fangs. (I'm guessing that Nina is a werewolf?)
Fred tries to help Nina. She's at her apartment and Jill wants to know what's going on.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 12, 2003 7:20:03 GMT -5
There are some spoiler hanging around, Spoiledrotten added: Episode 3 Spoilers -- Destinies are Us Aug 8, 2003 Casting sides for Episode 3 have begun to surface. There are three parts, Jill, Nina, and Amanda. Here's a summary of the details: Fred makes a reference to Angel killing Spike with a pen. At the beginning of the episode, we're introduced to Nina, a young woman in her 20's. She's having trouble sleeping and has a bite mark on her arm and her neck is bruised. She gets up and finds her sister, Jill, and her niece, Amanda (who's 9) making lunch in the kitchen. They ask Nina's what's wrong, but she brushes them off. Something strange starts happening to Nina, and she hallucinates that the little girl has her throat slashed by claws. A little later in the episode, Angel, Gunn and Wesley are doing some investigating, and looking for Nina. Next Nina and Amanda are playing at her apartment. With moonlight shinning in the window behind her, Nina starts going into convulsions Her eyes start glowing, and she starts growing fangs. (I'm guessing that Nina is a werewolf?) Fred tries to help Nina. She's at her apartment and Jill wants to know what's going on. So where's Spike? Nina, Jill, Amanda? Geez. Who are they and who cares?? Oh God. Minimal to zero Spike in Ep 1 and Ep 3? AND I have to wait till October? Then it will be Nov, and before you know it we're into holiday reruns so it's January before . . . OK. I must breathe. I just don't know how I'm going to stand this. Am just feeling very disappointed and pessimistic. I don't like AtS well enough on its own to trudge through ep after ep with minimal Spike. I tried to get into it before and couldn't . . .oh, I have to stop it. All will be well. All will be well. I will be pleasantly surprised. All will be well. It'll be great. Chin up. The glass is half-full. Where there's life, there's hope Every day's a gift Wishes can come true Whistle while you work. Etc.
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Post by LadyDi on Aug 12, 2003 12:27:34 GMT -5
So where's Spike? Nina, Jill, Amanda? Geez. Who are they and who cares?? Oh God. Minimal to zero Spike in Ep 1 and Ep 3? AND I have to wait till October? Then it will be Nov, and before you know it we're into holiday reruns so it's January before . . . OK. I must breathe. I just don't know how I'm going to stand this. Am just feeling very disappointed and pessimistic. I don't like AtS well enough on its own to trudge through ep after ep with minimal Spike. I tried to get into it before and couldn't . . .oh, I have to stop it. All will be well. All will be well. I will be pleasantly surprised. All will be well. It'll be great. Chin up. The glass is half-full. Where there's life, there's hope Every day's a gift Wishes can come true Whistle while you work. Etc. Just breathe, luv. More info may yet come out for ep. 3, with lots of Spike-y goodness.
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Post by Betsy on Aug 12, 2003 13:32:00 GMT -5
So where's Spike? Nina, Jill, Amanda? Geez. Who are they and who cares?? Oh God. Minimal to zero Spike in Ep 1 and Ep 3? AND I have to wait till October? Then it will be Nov, and before you know it we're into holiday reruns so it's January before . . . OK. I must breathe. I just don't know how I'm going to stand this. Am just feeling very disappointed and pessimistic. I don't like AtS well enough on its own to trudge through ep after ep with minimal Spike. I tried to get into it before and couldn't . . .oh, I have to stop it. All will be well. All will be well. I will be pleasantly surprised. All will be well. It'll be great. Chin up. The glass is half-full. Where there's life, there's hope Every day's a gift Wishes can come true Whistle while you work. Etc. I'm sure with him attached to Angel as he's supposed to be, he'll be in a lot of the episodes. Probably more so and certainly hopefully (to me) than Harmony.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 12, 2003 13:48:34 GMT -5
I'm sure with him attached to Angel as he's supposed to be, he'll be in a lot of the episodes. Probably more so and certainly hopefully (to me) than Harmony. But this supposes that Spike STAYS attached to Angel! Ugh!! Oh no. No. I won't be able to stand it. I want corporeal Spike - and lots and lots and lots of him!!! See?? You try to help me, but I can't be pleased. Yes - I remember. Breathe. Breathe. These are just early, incomplete spoilers. All will be well.
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Post by RAKSHA on Aug 12, 2003 19:35:13 GMT -5
But this supposes that Spike STAYS attached to Angel! Ugh!! Oh no. No. I won't be able to stand it. Think how Angel will feel! Gail
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Post by LadyDi on Aug 12, 2003 21:45:11 GMT -5
This isn't really a spoiler, but it deals w/AtS S5 so I thought I'd better put it here. A couple of quotes from JW have been circling 'round in my mind all summer. There is of course the B/A love that "transcends" everything, and a response to an interviewer's question. The interviewer asked if Buffy was free to do whatever she wanted, why didn't she make a beeline for Angel. Joss replied w/Cookie Dough metaphor, and went on to mention the possibility of a guest spot in Nov. and something about her "True Love." Not specifically Angel, just true love. Now how does "years, if ever" translate into November? Especially considering it won't be November for the show. According to the spoiler for ep. 2, it's only been a couple of weeks since the events of Chosen. The only way this statement makes any sense (to me) is if it's a reference to Spike. Maybe she's ready. I think of Sean Connery's line from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: "I just wasn't ready, Marcus. Five minutes would've been enough." I have no problem with the idea that part of Buffy will always love Angel. He was her first, after all. But why, Why, WHY would a woman grown run away from a serious adult relationship back to her idealized h.s. infatuation? Could the transcendant remark be interpreted this way? Am I being too literal? I still have hope, but it can be either balm or bane depending on my mood. Lately I've been wondering if JW is sitting in his office rubbing his hands together going "Mwah-hah-hah." Speaking of spoilers, has anyone seen spoilers for ep. 1 that actually detail Spike's appearance at the end of the ep?
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Post by Betsy on Aug 12, 2003 22:32:33 GMT -5
But this supposes that Spike STAYS attached to Angel! Ugh!! Oh no. No. I won't be able to stand it. I want corporeal Spike - and lots and lots and lots of him!!! See?? You try to help me, but I can't be pleased. Yes - I remember. Breathe. Breathe. These are just early, incomplete spoilers. All will be well. I don't think he'll be a ghost for many episodes. I'm sure they will figure out a way to make him corpeal again. I have faith in Joss that he won't lead us wrong.
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Post by Betsy on Aug 12, 2003 22:37:13 GMT -5
I have no problem with the idea that part of Buffy will always love Angel. He was her first, after all. But why, Why, WHY would a woman grown run away from a serious adult relationship back to her idealized h.s. infatuation? Maybe cuz it was or felt safer, doesn't have to confront reality . . . it's kinda of idealized. With some adult relationships, it's a big scary . . . seems more real than looking back. You tend to forget the bad things when looking back to such an innocent time. I just just picture Joss sitting in his office, reading the scripts and wondering just how he can piss us off, make us sweat . . . I haven't seen any details to how Spike comes back at the end of Ep. 1.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 13, 2003 5:47:55 GMT -5
Think how Angel will feel! Gail Well, I have tried to imagine how *I* would feel, if Spike were attached to me and really . . . what was the question?
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 13, 2003 5:54:06 GMT -5
This isn't really a spoiler, but it deals w/AtS S5 so I thought I'd better put it here. A couple of quotes from JW have been circling 'round in my mind all summer. There is of course the B/A love that "transcends" everything, and a response to an interviewer's question. The interviewer asked if Buffy was free to do whatever she wanted, why didn't she make a beeline for Angel. Joss replied w/Cookie Dough metaphor, and went on to mention the possibility of a guest spot in Nov. and something about her "True Love." Not specifically Angel, just true love. Now how does "years, if ever" translate into November? Especially considering it won't be November for the show. According to the spoiler for ep. 2, it's only been a couple of weeks since the events of Chosen. The only way this statement makes any sense (to me) is if it's a reference to Spike. Maybe she's ready. I think of Sean Connery's line from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: "I just wasn't ready, Marcus. Five minutes would've been enough." I have no problem with the idea that part of Buffy will always love Angel. He was her first, after all. But why, Why, WHY would a woman grown run away from a serious adult relationship back to her idealized h.s. infatuation? Could the transcendant remark be interpreted this way? Am I being too literal? I still have hope, but it can be either balm or bane depending on my mood. Lately I've been wondering if JW is sitting in his office rubbing his hands together going "Mwah-hah-hah." Speaking of spoilers, has anyone seen spoilers for ep. 1 that actually detail Spike's appearance at the end of the ep? When Buffy says "Maybe someday, years from now, maybe never" she is talking about them getting back together as a couple - not about when she might see him again. Who knows what Joss is talking about in terms of true love - all I know is this: He set up that whole Angel-Buffy-Spike thing in a certain way, and in my mind it can't possibly include Buffy ending up with either one of them. Angel and Buffy's romance was highly idealized, but underneath we were getting messages that it wasn't all perfection. Spike and Buffy's romance was demonized, but underneath we were getting messages that it wasn't all bad. Buffy finally got those messages too, and it represented her growth and acceptance of herself, etc. I could support this with a lot more stuff, but don't have time to write the 12 page essay it would take. I would be really stunned and disappointed to see Joss betray his own very careful, years-in-the-making set-up by having Buffy ever end up, in a permanent way, with either vampire. Someone else - a human - maybe . . . or maybe she'll never settle down with one guy.
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Post by LeeHollins on Aug 13, 2003 7:05:36 GMT -5
I have no problem with the idea that part of Buffy will always love Angel. He was her first, after all. But why, Why, WHY would a woman grown run away from a serious adult relationship back to her idealized h.s. infatuation? Just because their earlier romance was a "high school infatuation", why do we all assume that their relationship NOW would be the same? Buffy and Spike's relationship changed from something that was not healthy to a healthy, adult relationship. Why do we assume that Buffy and Angel couldn't do the same. Like Spring said, Buffy is starting to realize that her relationship with Angel wasn't perfect nor was her relationship with Spike all bad. Why do we assume that Buffy and Spike could have an adult relationship but that Buffy and Angel couldn't? They've both matured a great deal and I think they would go into a relationship with both eyes open - it wouldn't be an "idealized, everything is perfect" relationship. But I'm sure everyone will discount my thoughts since I'm a Bangel.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 13, 2003 7:18:35 GMT -5
Just because their earlier romance was a "high school infatuation", why do we all assume that their relationship NOW would be the same? Buffy and Spike's relationship changed from something that was not healthy to a healthy, adult relationship. Why do we assume that Buffy and Angel couldn't do the same. Like Spring said, Buffy is starting to realize that her relationship with Angel wasn't perfect nor was her relationship with Spike all bad. Why do we assume that Buffy and Spike could have an adult relationship but that Buffy and Angel couldn't? They've both matured a great deal and I think they would go into a relationship with both eyes open - it wouldn't be an "idealized, everything is perfect" relationship. But I'm sure everyone will discount my thoughts since I'm a Bangel. Basically, when it comes to B/A, I don't assume that couldn't have a good adult relationship. I just haven't the foggiest idea whether they could or not - I don't know how to tell. On the plus side, they have some genuine feeling on which to build, on the minus side they would have to get over the sort of uneven, paternal/protective type of thing they had going in the past. Sometimes it can be harder to build an equal adult relationship where a very "HS" type relationship existed before, than to start from scratch. When I look at B/A, and try to think if an equal, adult, non-idealized relationship would work for them, I don't know how to come to any conclusion. Plus, as I said - I don't think we're going there. Angel had a certain role to fulfill in Buffy's life, and he's fulfilled it . . . same with Spike.
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Post by LeeHollins on Aug 13, 2003 7:35:10 GMT -5
Plus, as I said - I don't think we're going there. Angel had a certain role to fulfill in Buffy's life, and he's fulfilled it . . . same with Spike. I'm not saying that they will have a relationship. I don't think they will. However, if they DID have a relationship, I don't think it would be the "idealized" infatuation that it once was. I know this is a sensitive subject, but if Buffy can move past the AR and forgive Spike and forge a healthier relationship with him (which takes an amazing amount of maturity), can she not move past the "high school infatuation" with Angel into a healthier relationship with him? I know it's like comparing apples and oranges and it's not the best comparision to go with - what I'm trying to get across is that Buffy, even with all her petty, immature crap, has an amazing well of maturity to draw from. These are questions that bounce around in my head when people talk about the former B/A relationship, maintaining that it will always stay that way. B/S changed. Is it that hard to believe that B/A could as well? Spring, this in no way is coming down on you. I am so sorry if it comes across that way. These are just questions I have bouncing around and your insightful post just brought them back up. So....see this in a good way - your post inspired me! OK, maybe I'm reaching here but I so did not mean to sound like I was coming down on you for your post.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 13, 2003 7:42:31 GMT -5
I'm not saying that they will have a relationship. I don't think they will. However, if they DID have a relationship, I don't think it would be the "idealized" infatuation that it once was. I know this is a sensitive subject, but if Buffy can move past the AR and forgive Spike and forge a healthier relationship with him (which takes an amazing amount of maturity), can she not move past the "high school infatuation" with Angel into a healthier relationship with him? I know it's like comparing apples and oranges and it's not the best comparision to go with - what I'm trying to get across is that Buffy, even with all her petty, immature crap, has an amazing well of maturity to draw from. These are questions that bounce around in my head when people talk about the former B/A relationship, maintaining that it will always stay that way. B/S changed. Is it that hard to believe that B/A could as well? Spring, this in no way is coming down on you. I am so sorry if it comes across that way. These are just questions I have bouncing around and your insightful post just brought them back up. So....see this in a good way - your post inspired me! OK, maybe I'm reaching here but I so did not mean to sound like I was coming down on you for your post. Oh no Lee - I didn't feel like you were coming down on my post. Not at all. And I agree, it would not be impossible for B/A to get their past the "HS/idealized" history. But . . with Angel on the WB and Buffy on UPN we've seen nearly zip of the two of them relating as equal, "no stars in eyes" adults . . . so . . . my whole feeling on it is "who knows?" And since I don't think it will ever happen . . . I have to admit, I also have the feeling, "who cares?" I want to see all three parties - Angel, Spike & Buffy - just move past it all and move forward with new loves. It would make the most sense with the way Joss has set things up - and I would be upset to see him compromise that careful set-up.
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