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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:43:28 GMT -5
Rob, I know you're hurting. I'm hurting with you. I cried at 'that' scene and I knew it was coming. Xander was so wonderful tonight. Hopefully this is the only sacrifice he will have to make in the end season slaughter...
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:44:54 GMT -5
Spring said, "Xander has lost his eye, but I'm betting that this sacrifice will ultimately result in "less blindness" all around."
EYES------EYES------EYES-----EYES-----EYES
Spring's comment may be a prediction of Xander finally winning Buffy. He made the speech about her, which she heard, and you saw the look on her face. She looked like her eyes had been opened to Xander. There may be a lot more of her seeing Xander with new eyes.
If ME doesn't award Buffy to Spike, and I really don't see that happening based on all the S/B background and ME's desire to keep JM in their 'cast stable' for future spinoff possibilities, then what would make viewers more satisfied than that Xander, Mr. Everyman, wins the girl in the end? If Xander=Joss, then it makes even more sense.
Buffy is going to feel severe guilt about leading Xander into the trap where he lost his eye. She will want to do something to make up to him for that, probably by defeating the FE and Caleb. But in there somewhere, she may find the one man who will never leave her, will accept her for herself, and will support her in whatever she has to do as slayer, without being reticent about telling her when he doesn't agree with her.
Spike and Buffy have had a wonderful run with excellent action, angst, and sex. And the chemistry has been explosive! But if Buffy has to finally come into a 'safe harbor' at the end of the series, Xander makes more sense as her long haul guy.
Anya? Who's Anya?
Alexandra K.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:45:54 GMT -5
Spring, as usual, your thoughts on the episode were deeper than mine. But I have this thought - I believe Caleb had nothing of Buffy's until she fell into his trap and brought her friends and the SITS who were her responsibility to him. That whole message thing was again, a return to the beginning. Buffy has STILL not learned the lesson of patience - this is at least the third time she's endangered her friends by rushing in unprepared, by not listening to the others warnings. Even Spike told her it sounded like a trap. She made a huge costly mistake tonight.
Other thoughts: This episode had SUCH a huge amount of humor and fun and rewarding material (Shirtless yummy Spike flirting like crazy with Faith, Buffy's jealousy, Xander's dream and wonderful speech, Andrew's confusion on vulcanology, the great graveyard scene) and then it became truly gut wrenchingly sad. I KNEW (being spoiled though ep 19) that Xander would lose an eye, but when it happened it still made me cry out.
.
Man, I hate Caleb. Buffy can't kill his sorry self fast enough for me.
Speculation: Tonight, my friend Charles and I discussed the still unresolved issue of the 'disturbance in the force' - the problem with the slayer that was mentioned by the many-eyed oracle. Charles suggested something that I've not heard anyone mention- he thinks perhaps Buffy returned from heaven without her SOUL. What a twist that would be, after Spike got his soul for her, and after all her ranting about evil unsouled creatures last season. It might fit with the strange coldness and ruthlessness we've seen from her this season. So...if that were to turn out to be the problem, who would give up his soul for her? Could it be....SPIKE? Feel free to blast this spec full of holes please, cause I don't much like it.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:48:07 GMT -5
Okay gang, here's the scoop...
There's a bunch o' new stuff on the S'cubie Website. First, Spring has submitted her analysis of The Harsh Light of Day. It's a Spring classic. What more can I say? Go read it for yourself. My humble words would never serve her eloquent style.
But, before you rush off to read that, there are several other things that definitely do not deserve to be lost in the shuffle. Joshua Adams has been a busy boy. He has served up not one but TWO! essays. On is Mirrors and the other is You Are What You Wear. Both are immensely enjoyable and written in Josh's distinct, succcinct style. They can be found in the Assay an Essay Section.
Finally, Michlle B has formally come out of the Spike closet. (Hey! If Anya could join him in it, then she'd fit fine!) Anyway, she submitted her profile to the site, so go take a look and have a snicker.
Finally, I would like to say...I enjoyed the episode tonight. They eerily answered many of our questions, doncha think? I think we have an ME spy amongst us. *L*
Well, I am off to read what all you wonderful people had to say about hte episode. Catch ya on the flip flop...over and out!
Vlad, TA, tp
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:51:48 GMT -5
*coughs* I am 5'10", just the same as another nocturnal fellow that you know. I am obviously standing in a hole and she has her heels on.
Vlad I
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:52:51 GMT -5
A hearty welcome back! I missed ya and all our late night posting sessions. I hope you are back to stay.
Vlad, TA, tp
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:53:45 GMT -5
Thank you, "Jonathan."
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:54:12 GMT -5
Missed you, Miss P. Welcome back. Don't be such a stranger.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:55:03 GMT -5
Before I start, did anyone else recognize that lonely walk down the street at the end of this episode as an echo of Fred's walk at the end of last week's 'Angel? Is this a hint?
Now on to the main stuff.
This season is about vision and seeing. Beljoxa--another Argus--all eyes. Xander, the powerless and the observer. Xander losing an eye. Xander to become a Watcher? Or has Xander a power that he, himself, is unaware of?
Why did Caleb attack him? No Big Bad has bothered much about Xander before. This wasn't done in the heat of battle, this was deliberate. Why? What does Caleb know that Glory, Adam and the Master missed?
Even if we hadn't seen Xander's pirate costume last year, we should have known something terrible would happen to him as soon as we heard his speech. That is Joss' means of telegraphing to us that "Hey, this character's about to have something terrible happen to him!"
I'm going to make an unpopular statement here (apologies to Rob, who must be suffering more than the rest of us) but in the course of this series Xander's been extremely lucky. While he's been in many life-threatening situations, he's never been seriously hurt before. Considering the monsters of the Buffyverse and considering how often Xander bravely--or foolishly--rushes in to face them (remember him stalking Glory, weapon in hand, after Glory had just bounced both Buffy and Spike around the room?) it's not only unsurprising--it's long overdue!
As to whether Willow can do something for Xander. I don't know. She couldn't do much for Joyce, but she's far more powerful now. She was able to grow new skin after the Gnarl ate a good part of it.
Caleb? Loathsome in the extreme. But I have faith (Faith?) Caleb will get his. That's also a trusim from the Canon of Joss. I hope it's a corker!
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:55:36 GMT -5
Andrew's tone poem to Faith is fine, if incoherent, right up to the point where she goes after Spock. I couldn't believe my eyes, my mind was doing incredulous backflips, I knew precisely what was being said and couldn't believe I was hearing/seeing it. Then I realized it was Andrew fantabulating again. So that was funny, even without his solemn nods to the grave remark of the Chinese-speaking SIT, who hasn't understood a word he was saying.
Then we have skinny-SIT (the local potential whose name I've forgotten) saying that she thought he wasn't going to do that anymore--tell stories. Andrew can't help it: it's how he sees the world--as a storyteller.
Which in retrospect immediately morphs into Caleb's final voice-over, in which he tells a different sort of story. Unlike Andrew's story of romanticized dread, Caleb's story has a happy ending--ALL the SITs are going to die. Caleb has odd taste in "happy," but he plainly has nearly as much faith (pun intended) in the power of stories as Andrew does. Except Andrew's stories are dramatic and ultimately hopeful (from his point of view) and Caleb's stories are apocolyptic and cruel. Also distilling life into the process of storytelling.
Having thought it out that far, I had a small epiphany: Caleb is Joss Whedon, the teller of evil stories.
Don't know where to go with it from there, but I think the import is clear. Though Drew G. is the episode's writer, it's ultimately Joss who set Xander up with that fine speech about trusting Buffy's heart, the expressive nerd bonding moment with Andrew about Godzilla, and the endearing never-gonna-happen threesome SIT-sex-kitten dream with the (ahem) leg cramp and romance-killing stopped up toilet, so we'd appreciate afresh the dear and somewhat wonky Heart of the Scoobies. Then Joss had him lag behind the one needless instant and had Caleb put out his eye.
Definitely Joss. He is EEEEE-VILE.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:56:43 GMT -5
I was thinking about it, and I want to take back my earlier thought that Spike would never make any "first moves" on Buffy - he is definitely a different guy now, flirting his heart out with Faith, and I think he just might make a move on Buffy, if the spirit moved him.
SPIKE'S A DIRTY BOY! Goodness, he looked absolutely gorgeous. That set-up was, I thought, very deliberately showing him as a kind of "fantasy guy" - the touseled hair, the blue bed sheets, etc . . . it fit with all the "fantasy girl"/"dirty girl" talk . . . I mean, Spike is the male version of a "dirty girl."
I liked the way Faith was just as smiling and relaxed as could be when Buffy first came down the steps, but Spike visibly reacted as an actual, current boyfriend or husband might, right down to the "I thought you'd be at work."
PATTI: I think Buffy has her soul. She went wrong in many ways in Season 6, but she still plainly had her soul. Think about "Dead Things" - how she knew right from wrong, when Spike couldn't quite figure it out. She did some terrible things even though she had that soul, but she had it. Lots of other stuff too.
I sure hope things get better with Giles. I do not like to see him like this.
ALEXANDRA: I can't see Buffy runnning off with Xander basically because there isn't enough time, I don't think, to set up that kind of transformation in Buffy's feelings for him. I don't know what to think about what will happen with Xander. Despite the terrible, painful injury, this was a good episode for Xander-development.
WHO MENTIONED CALEB NOTICING XANDER? Good point. It reminded me of something Cordelia once said to him about why Xander was afraid of Jack O'Toole in The Zeppo, when he wasn't nearly as afraid of some of the monsters he'd faced. Cordelia tells him that it is because unlike the other monsters, Jack "actually noticed you." But Xander got the best of Jack, and he will help defeat Caleb as well.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:57:16 GMT -5
I recommend Joshua's essays to all interested parties.
No time for much comment right now, but they are very well done and thought out. Joshua - especially loved the thoughts on The Trio. I also thought they were perfect for Season 6.
I remember you telling me that you enjoyed my episode analyses and felt like "Spike being rescued by Buffy" when you read them. I suspect that my days as a white knight are over; you have definitely figured out how to get thread your way through the labrynith all are on your own. Good show!
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:58:48 GMT -5
Hey guys, I'm going to be out almost all day. Plus my computer keeps going wonky. SOOOOO, while I have the chance I'm going to try to post all my thoughts at once. Sorry in advance for long posts, or frequent.
#4--Alexandra-- Yay!
#14--Spring--I'm with Patti, I don't think Caleb actually had anything of Buffy's until she brought the SITs to him. Looking to see HUGE GUILT ISSUES over both death of the girls and Xander.
Spring--read you School Hard essay yesterday. As with Rob's fiction I was "saving" Scubie board stuff and now I'm glad I did. FX is repeating season 2 and I'm going to read your essays in conjunction with each episode as it airs. What fun. Looking forward to it. Thanks.
Also to Spring, who said: //The rest was . . . well, it was set-up and exposition, and I'm sure it was needed, but I get so fidgity these days, when screen time is taken up by a new guy like Caleb, "fake Buffy" (I hate fake Buffy), SITs, Robin W, and Andrew.// Got to disagree there. I loved the way the episode covered a huge number of basis. Loved the humor, the nods to previous issues B/F, F/S, B/W (Buffy and Wood are "okay", still want to see next Spike/Wood encounter.) I thought the ep needed all of those "lighter" moments because of the intensity of the final scene. As Patti said: //This episode had SUCH a huge amount of humor and fun and rewarding material (Shirtless yummy Spike flirting like crazy with Faith, Buffy's jealousy, Xander's dream and wonderful speech, Andrew's confusion on vulcanology, the great graveyard scene//
Speaking of Anya, where was Wood in the final battle. Buffy said she needed him, but he didn't go to Caleb's lair or stay with the newer SITs. I also noticed Dawn was left at the house.
Sue P
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 15:59:24 GMT -5
I just have a few minutes but wanted to point out a few things that may even cheer up Rob.
Caleb recognized Xander as the one who sees things, harkening back to Xander and Dawn's talk earlier this season. Yes, Xander really does need that cape, he is much more important to this whole mess than was previously believed.
In Xander's talk to the SITs about the appropriate place to hit tentacled creatures
"Heart, Mind, Eyes... It's always got eyes." Or something to that effect. A truly powerful line. It not only forshadows the ending, it also harkens back to the episodes many seasons ago where the Scoobies teamed up, with the First Slayer, to defeat the Baddie.
The Scoobie gang is important in and of itself. Each member serves their purpose. We have just begun to understand Xander's purpose. (Of course I think that Rob has known all along =) )
Watergal
Oh... and Spike and Faith were fabulous! Continuity rocks!
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:00:11 GMT -5
Oh, and Alexandra. Glad the tape made it safely.
Watergal
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