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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:03:46 GMT -5
::WHO MENTIONED CALEB NOTICING XANDER? ::
That was me.
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:04:32 GMT -5
I've just got to say, this guy is one heck of an actor. Given the right part, I think he could give JM a run for his money.
Joss knows talent when he sees it.
I first saw Nathan Fillion several (5,6,7, more?) years ago on the daytime soap "One Life to Live" (don't ask, I didn't have Buffy then and I had some at-home surgery recuperation time). The show had had multiple actors in the role of Vicki Buchanan's younger son. I pointed Fillion out to my daughter and said: well, at least this one is cute and he can even act. (Given the plotlines and dialogue on soaps it's not always easy to shine.)
Then he showed up in "Two Guys, a Girl and A Pizza", a romantic comedy and did a very credible job with, again, less than inspiring material.
Then, of course, Firefly, where he was the (somewhat jaded) "hero"--very much a Han Solo type.
Now he is cast as EVIL and he is SO. VERY. EVIL. (I mean evil-Spike, Angelus, the mayor, Glory, were "bad guys", but you didn't automatically shrink the moment they appeared on screen and opened their mouths.)
I think kudos go to Fillion for an amazing range and so totally taking over the character. Yes, Caleb's actions make him beyond black, but I give credit to Fillion's acting for fleshing out the character. You HATE Caleb, but you believe that such a person could actually exist.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:05:11 GMT -5
And one of the reasons Xander was still there to be noticed was because he was following Buffy's instructions to get the girls out. He stopped to help KENNEDY and that's when he got grabbed.
(By the way, I did find my self saying, "not Molly, no, don't kill Molly.")
Sue P
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:05:47 GMT -5
1. Did you notice Caleb say to Shannon in the car: "You were born without a soul..."?
2. Willow took a picture of the ring-burn on her neck--could anyone see anything in the scar?
Quotes I loved: Caleb: "Satan is a little man." Faith: "Am I the *good* slayer now?" Faith: "Is he like Angel?" Buffy: "I don't want to lead them into war....it can't be the right thing."
3. Faith smokes?
Sue P
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:06:27 GMT -5
It's unconscionable that Wood fires Buffy. It's spite. She's failed to back him up re Spike, so he uses the petty power he has over her job to dismiss her on the grounds that "The mission is what's important." Sure, right. When Buffy transparently offers to do another job at the school, he says, "Fired again." He's not gonna take "yes" for an answer. He wants her out of there, with no income, and no respite or escape from the SITs and the situation.
It was, admittedly, a makework job to begin with. But his withdrawing it, and the manner in which he withdrew it, is wholly petty and mean.
Has the man no pride or dignity at all? Does the mission mean NOTHING because he's had HIS nose (and eyebrow) put out of joint? Does he WANT Buffy to fail, just because she's sided with Spike against him?
What a jerk! I don't think he's pretty anymore.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:07:39 GMT -5
SUE - I agree that the bits with Andrew, etc., were nicely done. I am just getting so jealous of every moment of screen time that . . . I don't know how to describe it. It's me though - I mean, I understand that my reaction is about me, not the quality of what is being presented. Glad you liked the SchoolHard essay.
Did you all think that the results of that attack on Caleb proved Buffy was in the wrong going there? I didn't think it was all that cut and dried. I don't think Xander will blame Buffy in any way for his injury.
I got this feel that Spike has sort of stepped in the Giles role now, in a way. Except the role is not paternal anymore. I noticed the strong way he told Buffy they "had to go" - it was what Buffy had already decided, he was just reinforcing, but it helped Buffy.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:08:12 GMT -5
Nan: I didn't know what to think of Wood firing Buffy. He framed it as a favor to her, but yeah - what kind of favor is that?
His eyebrow cut has moved from the evil left side to the right. Basically, I'm hoping he fades into the background and has little to do with the finale.
I do think he is still pretty though. I saw DB Woodside in a movie this weekend on VH1 - he played one of The Temptations. He was younger and not nearly so "beefed up", and he had hair. He just looked very cute with his pastel suits, doing the coordinated dance moves, etc.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:08:51 GMT -5
Whew! Sex, Violence, (sacri)Religion.
This Buffy was for Mature Audiences Only. What an incredible distance from seasons 1-5. Don't get me wrong, I was riveted. But it wasn't something I would encourage a young teen to watch.
I get the impression that Joss is not just writing for the hard-core fans, but he is writing for himself. And he is clearly making the point that evil is very, very real and very, very evil and no respecter of persons. It's not funny-looking vampires or demons-of-the-week getting their butts kicked by a Valley girl in a mini-skirt. This is ADULT material--in theme as well as in execution. Man, if there are already college courses being taught on Buffy mythology this one season, this one episode, will keep academics going for years.
For 6 and a half seasons he has studiously avoided going head to head with religious (specifically Christian) imagery and now it is: damn the torpedos and full speed ahead. (Yes, Buffy once said, "Note to self: religion is freaky". And then there were her comments about being in heaven. But for a show that is about good vs evil that's not much direct reference to religion over 137 episodes.)
I think one of the conservative TV watchdog groups voted last years Buffy as the worst show on TV (due to sex, violence, and violent sex). And, you (or at least I) have got to admit that from their point of view they had reasons. Of course, they watched the individual episodes without ever recognizing the larger context.
Now this:
**References to the Last Supper (and, by chance of calendar, only two days before Maundy Thursday).
**Caleb said (about one of the dead girls): "One who's already paid her wages." I took this to be a direct reference to the scripture which says, "The wages of sin is death."
**Garden of Eden imagery, referring to the apple.
**The wine: blood being spilled. Blood, blood and more blood being spilled.
**(Not to mention the whole Jasmine thing on Angel.)
-----------------------------
Then there was the whole sex fantasy, and the dirty girls theme.
And the incredible level of violence. I can only think of a few other scenes in the 6 previous seasons (Jenny Calendar's death and the flaying of Warren come to mind) in which I gasped out loud. In general, there has been very little on-screen human death, and usually not of even minor characters (just "expendables). Even Dark Willow, except for Warren, didn't break necks and stab young girls in the stomach (multiple young girls). And while Buffy and Spike have repeatedly been beaten to a pulp they have the supernatural healing thing. Except for Giles getting knocked unconcious and Dawn's broken arm when, before this season, have we seen the main characters getting horrifically injured?
Sorry so long. It's just--where can we go from here? Can the last 4 episodes be even more intense. Joss has made it clear that ANYTHING can happen and NOTHING is off-limits.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:10:20 GMT -5
When Caleb noticed Xander, just before damaging him, he said "So, you're the one who sees!".
I found this very interesting. It illuminates Xanders role in the group, and perhaps his role in the days to come.
Remember Xanders speech to Dawn in "Potential":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maybe this is one more clue leading to real answers!!
p.s. Meeooowww for the "warm champagne"!! THAT was something else. Those two have a Ton of Chemistry on camera together. I may have to reconsider my spuffy-ness!! didnt ya love how pissed off Buffy looked upon seeing Faith and Spike so cozy together?!?!?
FAITH: you know all the cool Vampires
funny line.
Spike: "Not as of Late" ------very telling.
-Shannon
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:10:59 GMT -5
Just a few more thoughts.
When Faith was talking to Willow at the hospital (pointing out that no-one had warned her about possible attacks) she said, I guess as long as you had "the true slayer." So, in spite of what what we have previously been told about the line now going through Faith, we are now clearly being told that in the end it will be "all about Buffy."
Interesting comment from Caleb when looking at FE Buffy: "I see strength, and the lonliness that comes with real strength." (Foreshadowing what?)
And, I was left completely confused by the ending. Caleb tells FE/Buffy that is she shows up they will follow her because they are conditioned to follow Buffy. What can that mean?
I'll probably miss posting on the episode board until late in the day. Have fun without me.
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:11:30 GMT -5
Spring's new essay on "The Harsh Light of Day" has the usual excellence to recommend it. Spike and the jackhammer, indeed! That's some image, and Spring is right about it, as I knew the minute I thought about it but had been literally-minded blind to before. I saw the image but not the implications. Wonderful stuff, Spring.
Joshua, your two essays are also very fine, both the one on the Troika of Doom and on the importance of fashion sense in the Buffyverse. The parallels you draw between Warren, Andrew, and Jonathan and mirroring characteristics among the Scoobies is particularly good, especially your equating Warren's wanting/getting/using the power to wipe out Katrina's free will with Willow's effectively doing the same to Tara with the memory wipe (and then to all the Scoobies in "Tabula Rasa"). The ideas are insightful, coherent, and well developed.
The Grammar Nazi in me couldn't help being bothered by the multitude of typos. I mention it; I let it drop. End of topic (following about half a dozen writes and deletes on my part: lacking an edit button, the first try is all I get).
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:11:59 GMT -5
Being fired is never of the good. It always hurts. I know.
Pretty is as pretty does. He ain't pretty no more (to me)--the character, not the actor.
So now the pattern is complete. There has now NEVER been a principal of Sunnydale High School who has not used the power of petty tyranny to make life a little more miserable for Buffy Summers.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:12:49 GMT -5
Last night's episode was one of the most interesting in terms of character development and the theme of religious fanatics are crazy ...
First- It made absooute sense that Wood would fire Buffy- since when on this show have the heroes not allowed personal issues to cloud the mission?
Xander's heartfelt tribute to buffy was the completion of an arc that shows he IS truly capable of letting his emotions guide him in determining where his energies are most useful in completing the mission.
(Of course he was immediately punished in the most vile way so it just goes to show that one is not rewarded for such moral decisions in the immediate and energizing way one is when exerting demonic will i.e like staking innocent girls.)
Spike and Faith in the basement (besides being just yummmy)was satisfying b/c it revealed them to be still electrically charged to the possibilities of life if constrained by more practical concerns.
Also when IS Faith going to get over settling for Buffy's ex's?
ellie jason
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:13:41 GMT -5
I randomly clicked on the episode board and found this message--that due to technical difficulties Hunter's review won't be posted until Thursday. So that means this IS the place to be to discuss the episode.
Sue P
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Post by Dalton on Aug 12, 2003 16:14:38 GMT -5
Anybody besides me happy that Faith's return was timed so that when she started punching out Spike, he could haul off and whack her back?
True, he didn't immobilize or defeat her, but he was doing what was minimally necessary to defend himself against unprovoked and mistaken attack. At least they're on fairly even terms here--as NONE of them are, later with Caleb. What IS the man (Caleb) that without weapons (he uses them only on the SITs), he can toss two slayers and a vamp around as though it were nothing? They only get a shot at him by dodging what he throws at them--in straight head-to-head, toe-to-toe, they look as though they haven't got a chance of even standing up to him, let alone beating him, either individually or together. He's got physical power equivalent (at least) to that of a Turok-Han. But he appears to be human. So how are they gonna fight him if they're not allowed to kill him?
How are we to categorize Caleb, and therefore what use of deadly force is morally permissable in opposing him?
Where is a rocket launcher when you need one?
Nan
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