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Post by Karen on Oct 6, 2005 7:40:43 GMT -5
Act V Desmond go bump. "In about fifteen minutes, you are going to be very right or very wrong, brother" "I know you" He remembers Jack... "It doesn't matter" Why does he say "I married her" like it's "I killed her"? "See you in another life, yeah?" again... Oooh! Five minutes on the click-o-vision.Sayid is the trusting sort, he may fit in with Locke's camp well. Faith. Oh, that's the alarm going off, and the prompt! Woohoo!! "32" "allright, you go ahead" Dammit, Hugo ALMOST foiled it. Damned good try. "Two person job"? What in the hell does it matter who presses the skinner box button? "I can't do this alone, Jack" "It's a leap of Faith" It's definately being set up with Hurley and Locke in opposite camps...servants of the numbers, and defiers of the numbers? Regarding the preview: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! When did Jin get the ten minute Berlitz course? I've been wondering the entire time if he actually spoke English... But I'm wondering if there might not be something else.. The countdown clock must use a different power source, since it kept running even when the power is off. The previews were interesting, with Charlie finding out that there is food and Hurley not telling him. That's so wrong. They should all just go have a big party!
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 6, 2005 8:34:45 GMT -5
Too many questions, not enough answers. We did learn, however, that: Desmond has been down the hatch for three years. Desmond wasn't waiting for Jack, or Hurley, or even Kate. Desmond was waiting for his replacement. Desmond is bug-shagging crazy, and not terribly bright, since he bought the "end of the world" scenario from Calvin immediately. The hatch is part of a giant behavioral laboratory. I think I heard the word "Initiative" during the annoyingly choppy and worn-out brainwashing training film. Also, polar bears and psychics! Desmond is a lab rat. Skinner box, anyone? Good rats push the button type in a series of numbers adding up to 108 every 108 minutes, and are rewarded with the Technicolor Food of Crazyness. The numbers are bad. Locke had a girlfriend, once. Locke's obsessive tendencies go way back. Now some theorizing: Walt appears to possess psychic powers. Therefore, Walt would be of great interest to the people running the experiment, hence the kidnapping. Claire's baby is either a red herring, or he's much too little to have manifested his powers, therefore he is of no interest to the people running things, at least not yet. The Others are survivors from the back of the plane. They didn't have as much plane debris to play with, so they're in worse shape than our group. Someone has warned The Others about a sinister group of weirdos called "The Others", so they assumed that Sawyer, Michael and Jin are "The Others". So, each group thinks that the other is "The Others". Get it? Good. Now explain it all to me. I found interesting the way that the personalities of Locke, Jack, and Sayid were expressed in how they reacted to the "end of the world" scenario. John "I want to believe" Locke fell for it with no questions. Jack behaved like a scientist, and a cynic, and demanded proof. Sayid behaved like a soldier; he fixed the computer and worried about "why" after the job was done. Now, will someone please explain to me how, if the power was out and the bunker was running on emergency power, and the computer was as dead as a Norwegian Blue, the flipping timer connected to the computer kept right on counting down? Then when the computer was repaired, it was business as usual, with no need to reconnect the timer to the computer. I think it's another rat intelligence test. Anne, more than a little fed up ETA: Did I miss it, or do we still not know how Locke wound up in the wheelchair?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 6, 2005 8:39:34 GMT -5
Just got a chance to watch last night's episode Dude! Didn't see that coming at all. With all the serious of the show, I laughed out loud for about 5 minutes when they pulled out the "Orientation" tape. Godzilla, anyone? Oh - and the backer for the Greg and Dharma Project looked like Locke's father to me, but I didn't see Locke react with recognition. Helen! She was a real live person! The Others looked very similar to our Lostaways. Couldn't see all of their faces, but there were Kate and Michael super-twins for sure. The previews! OMG! Jin!! What the heck? I don't have last season on tape, but I wondered if the large African-American gentleman might be Rose's lost husband. Last we heard, Rose still had faith that he'd survived, and he was in the back of the plane.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 6, 2005 9:03:55 GMT -5
I think Locke speaks for all of us when he says "we're gonna need to watch that again". 'Cuz, whoa! Guess we were whining too much about not getting enough info. We got tons of info now, but what the hell does it all mean? Dharma project? Unique electromagnetic fluctuations and then "and incident"? The DeGroots?! And the film doesn't say "the world will end" it says the future of the project is in your hands. Were we right or were we right! It's an experiment! They mentioned Skinner and had polar bears! Too. Much. Data! Eeeeeep! On the up side, we got a great Hurley moment. "Returning to normalness" Kate runs out of the jungle. "Oh crap." And why does it make sense to have Sawyer try to escape? Considering he's the one with the pre-existing shoulder wound. My vote for dorkiest line of the ep? "It's a girl." ;D I have to agree. This episode was overflowing with information. Almost too much information to process. My mind is on overflow. But this also proves that only Locke's backstories are interesting. Or maybe that Terry can make even lameass flashbacks work. I was very entertained by this episode. Well except for the oh look, it's a countdown. Like every other single show/movie in the history of entertainment - let's wait till it counts down to the very last second before we push the button. Puh-lease. Like we were supposed to think he wouldn't. But - with that said I really enjoyed this. It left me wondering lots of things. I did know what's her name was lying her ass off. Her story was so lame - come on guys, haven't you ever watched a tv show or movie before. So Jin speaks english in the previews? Is that the last of Desmond or is he going to lurk about on the island like the French chick? How large is this freaking island anyway? Whole cities of people are wandering about on it seemingly. Electromagnetic whatzit?
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Post by Jan on Oct 6, 2005 10:47:34 GMT -5
So I think The Others are the survivors of the Black Mountain. But that the "Tail Survivors" and "Our Survivors" each know about The Others, and would assume they each were it.
Was the purpose of the CFL to tell both sets of Lostaways about The Others? And to make them afraid of The Sickness?
The numbers were being broadcast during WW2, so they predate the "Orientation" film and the experiment setup.
Jin was a fisherman's son and a waiter before he worked for his wife's father--it is doubtful that he had the ability to speak perfect English all along.
I actually love the fact that all our answers are more interesting questions. I feel like all the cards got thrown up in the air and we have to see where they fall now.
But then, I am heavily sedated, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.
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Post by Squeemonster on Oct 6, 2005 14:27:47 GMT -5
So I think The Others are the survivors of the Black Mountain. But that the "Tail Survivors" and "Our Survivors" each know about The Others, and would assume they each were it. Was the purpose of the CFL to tell both sets of Lostaways about The Others? And to make them afraid of The Sickness? The numbers were being broadcast during WW2, so they predate the "Orientation" film and the experiment setup. Jin was a fisherman's son and a waiter before he worked for his wife's father--it is doubtful that he had the ability to speak perfect English all along. I actually love the fact that all our answers are more interesting questions. I feel like all the cards got thrown up in the air and we have to see where they fall now.But then, I am heavily sedated, so you probably shouldn't listen to me. That's exactly how I feel about it, and I don't have heavy sedation as an excuse. It's good to see you posting, Jan. Feel better soon! #bighug#
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Post by Sara on Oct 6, 2005 15:36:50 GMT -5
So I think The Others are the survivors of the Black Mountain. But that the "Tail Survivors" and "Our Survivors" each know about The Others, and would assume they each were it. Was the purpose of the CFL to tell both sets of Lostaways about The Others? And to make them afraid of The Sickness? The numbers were being broadcast during WW2, so they predate the "Orientation" film and the experiment setup. Jin was a fisherman's son and a waiter before he worked for his wife's father--it is doubtful that he had the ability to speak perfect English all along. I actually love the fact that all our answers are more interesting questions. I feel like all the cards got thrown up in the air and we have to see where they fall now. But then, I am heavily sedated, so you probably shouldn't listen to me. Hey, you're making a lot of sense to me. I agree with you in thinking that the group Ana-Lucia's with aren't actually the Others that the CFL feared--her knowledge of them sounds like it comes from long experience, and the tail end survivors have only been there for the same 40 days our gang has. I think the actual Others are another group entirely. I also gotta think that Ana-Lucia believes their account of who they are and what they've been doing, if only because of Michael's obvious desperation to find his son.
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Post by Karen on Oct 6, 2005 15:44:01 GMT -5
So I think The Others are the survivors of the Black Mountain. But that the "Tail Survivors" and "Our Survivors" each know about The Others, and would assume they each were it. I agree! That's what I would guess. Just as Desmond was there to make them slaves to The Button. It's great fun!! #bighug# I hope you're feeling better!
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Post by Matthew on Oct 6, 2005 17:44:34 GMT -5
Act II "Normalness"? "Aw crap" Why are they fronded? for protection from the sun? Kind of them. oh, owie, machete. ouchies. Oh, he recognizes him, but can't place him. "Because the last time I saw the computer that was gonna save the world it didn't look like that" WTF? Hey, old tech is reliable tech. Huh.. not an "s" but a swan, and those ARE the I Ching trigrams.. wow. "Dharma Initiative"? Crap, the Initiative people are freakin' everywhere, aren't they? Station 3? Gerald and Karen DeGroot.. Skinner? Communo-research compound? Polar bears! Woohoo! Alvar Hanso.. munitions magnate.. Station three: the Swan.. 540 days.. more numbers.. And the button pushing cannot be automated? Don't attempt to use the computer? "Thank you, Namaste, and good luck!" 1980? The computer might be able to be rigged to push the button automatically, but would you trust a machine with your life? Do it every time I take a car on the road.... Might not trust the fate of the whole WORLD to it.. though I'd have a backup setup, myself, because sometimes a computer (even one as simple as a commodore) can break where it might take longer than 108 minutes to fix it.. and that's if it breaks right after you put the numbers in. I think I could build a better fail-safe system myself, with no problems, with the contents of my twenty-year-old nissan. that's why I think it's just a giant Skinner box, where you push the button, you get the food pellet.....
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Post by Linda on Oct 6, 2005 21:02:03 GMT -5
Hi all! There were some whoa! moments in this week's ep. Although it seems like most of those were in the preview for next week. Neat-o discussions so far. I am enjoying the discussions a bit more than the ep, although that might be because everything fictional seems a bit pale in comparison to Serenity at the moment. In any case, I liked the flashbacks this week better than last week. At least there was some *new* information about Locke's past. (The only new information from Michael's flashbacks was polar bears = Daddy issues since Michael gave Walt one (yes, I know he meant it for the best). Hmm ... except I think we knew that already, too, so never mind.) However, in tonight's ep, they lost me in the hatch. Nobody seemed to be acting logically at all. I kinda get the feeling that every action had some sort of significance that the writers would reveal to us at a later date. However, since almost no one's actions made real life sense to me, I wasn't feeling the urge to figure it out. The only actions and reactions that felt natural were Hurley's. Thank goodness for Hurley. I was pretty much going "Huh? Why would you think / say / do that?" with all of the Jack and Locke stuff. (Well, actually Jack's skepticism made sense to me, but he kept reversing himself, so ) Why wouldn't Sayid ask questions? Why would Dessie (ETA: thanks, Matthew, for the name variation) stick around with Kelvin when he was doing his own race-around-the-world thing when he got to the Island? If all of the above is puppetmaster / mind control stuff, well, meh. I prefer a purgatory angle myself, since the questions and secrets of all of our characters would have some sort of spiritual or moral component to them. It's just more interesting to me if they freely chose the paths that brought them here instead of being manipulated by outside forces. Curious about: Henry James' Turn of the Screw? (Any Lit/Library majors / voracious readers wanna speculate?) Why would anyone believe that pressing a certain number sequence would mean saving the world? (Huh, I guess this is why the Jack vs. Locke stuff didn't work for me.) The chain of information seemed particularly weak: Kelvin => Desmond => our guys. And I don't recall the orientation film saying "Congratulations, you're saving the world!" either. Who told Kelvin? Was Kelvin an accidental recruit like Dessie and our guys? Neat speculation, Karen, about whether the project $ backer was Locke's assdad. Couldn't tell from pause & zoom, though. Oh, and also from the film: What "incident"? What do the Number drugs do? Vaccinate? Enhance? Zombify? So, how did Kelvin die? What did Dessie's remark about his and Kelvin's partnership being "lovely" indicate? Was that the subtext of the title "Orientation"? Does that mean we'll now get Jocke? (Not gonna make an itch joke here because that'd be *wrong* ) What did Jack mean by saying he saw the computer that would save the world? And that this one wasn't it? Where was Dessie headed in the end besides "away"? So what happened to Jack's wife? What made him so upset to talk about her with Dessie? So what happened to Locke's Helen? (I suspect she's in cahoots with Locke's assdad, but I could easily be wrong.) Who are those "others" Ana-Lucia is hanging out with? Why are they so hostile? (BTW, I like Anne's & Jan's theory.) Pause & slo mo minutiae: One of the book titles that zoomed by: The Third(?) Policeman by Flann(?) O'Brien. Dessie grabbed a little stuffed toy to take with him. It was either a donkey or a bunny -- it looked gray and had long ears. I only noticed this because he was reaching over the above-mentioned book title that I was trying to read. On the chalkboard at Locke's first flashback (not quite in focus, so I could have gotten the words wrong): TRANSFORMING ANGER 1) Call a Truce w/anger 2) Anger - Loss connection 3) Re-wire(?) your hot button (underline theirs) 4) Tell your story 5) Get good(?) at grieving(?) 6) Stay in touch(?) w/yourself(?) Might be a blueprint for the season. Or not. Of course the main reason that this episode was better than the first two (IM"H"O) is that there were more opportunities to convey the fact that Hawaii is still pretty. ;D Linda, P.S. I haven't watched VM yet because a friend wanted to borrow my Lost recording today. I miss you guys but am avoiding the main thread so's I can watch VM unspoiled.
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Post by Karen on Oct 6, 2005 21:14:55 GMT -5
Just got a chance to watch last night's episode Dude! Didn't see that coming at all. With all the serious of the show, I laughed out loud for about 5 minutes when they pulled out the "Orientation" tape. Godzilla, anyone? Oh - and the backer for the Greg and Dharma Project looked like Locke's father to me, but I didn't see Locke react with recognition. Helen! She was a real live person! The Others looked very similar to our Lostaways. Couldn't see all of their faces, but there were Kate and Michael super-twins for sure. The previews! OMG! Jin!! What the heck? I don't have last season on tape, but I wondered if the large African-American gentleman might be Rose's lost husband. Last we heard, Rose still had faith that he'd survived, and he was in the back of the plane. I hadn't thought of that! I think you're on to something, too. If that is the case, she (and Jack, too, because he met that 'other' girl at the bar) will be the link to a possible merging of the two groups.
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Post by Dragon on Oct 7, 2005 13:01:22 GMT -5
Act III Why isn't he wanting to watch it again? Huh. Michelle Rodriguez.. I wonder how many other survivors there are... "THEY" "We're about to be the best thing that ever happened to you" He's been hiding underground with a less than two-hour window between code-pressings.. of course he doesn't get out much. Thing is, it could be automated.. Yep, fits in with the "Skinner" thingie from the movie. The bunker is a big skinner box.... Whatinhell is an "electromagnetic station"? "Makes his (nonferrous) fillings hurt?" Huh.. every 108 minutes... interesting. I wonder if a different sequence of numbers would produce a different result? So there IS another entrance.... Why an airlock? Quarantine!!!! Magnetic fields sometimes generate a vibration that will affect fillings in the teeth. When Jack saw Desmond he said "You"! Dragon
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Post by Dragon on Oct 7, 2005 13:19:32 GMT -5
Act V Desmond go bump. "In about fifteen minutes, you are going to be very right or very wrong, brother" "I know you" He remembers Jack... "It doesn't matter" Why does he say "I married her" like it's "I killed her"? "See you in another life, yeah?" again... Oooh! Five minutes on the click-o-vision. Sayid is the trusting sort, he may fit in with Locke's camp well. Faith. Oh, that's the alarm going off, and the prompt! Woohoo!! "32" "allright, you go ahead" Dammit, Hugo ALMOST foiled it. Damned good try. "Two person job"? What in the hell does it matter who presses the skinner box button? "I can't do this alone, Jack" "It's a leap of Faith" It's definately being set up with Hurley and Locke in opposite camps...servants of the numbers, and defiers of the numbers? Regarding the preview: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! When did Jin get the ten minute Berlitz course? I've been wondering the entire time if he actually spoke English... But I'm wondering if there might not be something else.. I told you that there is no way Jin grew up in Korea and didn't know any English. Why he kept it secret is the question, and what a good actor he is to be able to listen to everything around him and never show that he understood. Dragon
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Post by Dragon on Oct 7, 2005 13:44:40 GMT -5
Too many questions, not enough answers. We did learn, however, that: Desmond has been down the hatch for three years. Desmond wasn't waiting for Jack, or Hurley, or even Kate. Desmond was waiting for his replacement. Desmond is bug-shagging crazy, and not terribly bright, since he bought the "end of the world" scenario from Calvin immediately. The hatch is part of a giant behavioral laboratory. I think I heard the word "Initiative" during the annoyingly choppy and worn-out brainwashing training film. Also, polar bears and psychics! Desmond is a lab rat. Skinner box, anyone? Good rats push the button type in a series of numbers adding up to 108 every 108 minutes, and are rewarded with the Technicolor Food of Crazyness. The numbers are bad. Locke had a girlfriend, once. Locke's obsessive tendencies go way back. Now some theorizing: Walt appears to possess psychic powers. Therefore, Walt would be of great interest to the people running the experiment, hence the kidnapping. Claire's baby is either a red herring, or he's much too little to have manifested his powers, therefore he is of no interest to the people running things, at least not yet. The Others are survivors from the back of the plane. They didn't have as much plane debris to play with, so they're in worse shape than our group. Someone has warned The Others about a sinister group of weirdos called "The Others", so they assumed that Sawyer, Michael and Jin are "The Others". So, each group thinks that the other is "The Others". Get it? Good. Now explain it all to me. I found interesting the way that the personalities of Locke, Jack, and Sayid were expressed in how they reacted to the "end of the world" scenario. John "I want to believe" Locke fell for it with no questions. Jack behaved like a scientist, and a cynic, and demanded proof. Sayid behaved like a soldier; he fixed the computer and worried about "why" after the job was done. Now, will someone please explain to me how, if the power was out and the bunker was running on emergency power, and the computer was as dead as a Norwegian Blue, the flipping timer connected to the computer kept right on counting down? Then when the computer was repaired, it was business as usual, with no need to reconnect the timer to the computer. I think it's another rat intelligence test. Anne, more than a little fed up ETA: Did I miss it, or do we still not know how Locke wound up in the wheelchair? Actually, the clock could be a wind-up and resets by rewinding everytime the computer tells it to. If they hadn't found the lights and fixed the computer, the countdown would have ended. Strange, isn't it, that there is someone in the group that can do just about everything needed by the "Group". Doctor, shooter, believer and outdoorsman, radio and computer repairman, etc., etc.. Perhaps the plane wasn't suppose to split up and all of the survivors were to be in one place. Even Hurley, who had to overcome many obstacles to get on the plane. Who knows, maybe Jack's father isn't dead! I told Matthew that the man in the institution where Hurley heard the numbers may have been in the bunker and went nuts and escaped somehow and that is why he was spouting the numbers. The may have been chosen to be on the island for their different abilities. Walt, the baby and even the black lady that said she would know if her husband was dead. The others have been there since the beginning, they are the ones running the show! Maybe they are writing the show!!!!! MWHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! I've lost it!!! As for Shakira's breasts, the whole scene gives me the hebbie jeebies! She is an alien put together with parts that can move by themselves! Dragon
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Post by Lola m on Oct 7, 2005 19:26:37 GMT -5
Yes, to second Lola, what is going on with Jin next week? I can't remember what he said in the preview, but it was definitely in clear English - has he been scamming Everybody, including Sun? Is he an agent of the Others? Sheesh. **nods nods nods to all of these questions, and more!** Really looking forward to the next ep. Oh my yes. If I were there I'd have no problem at all trading a little button pushing time for a chance at regular meals and some home comforts. Huh. That's an intriguing possibility. I had been thinking of things like, maybe she died. Or somehow the big blow up with his dad ruined the marriage (although I can't for the life of me see how) or something like that. But it would be a very nice parallel to Locke with your idea. [/color][/quote] Oh yeah. BIG behavioral experiment gone horribly wrong. Or worse, gone exactly the way the folks running it wanted.
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