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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 1, 2005 0:26:15 GMT -5
Good possibillity on that: but I think it's more complicated, in that she sees herself in Sawyer, too. And face it, Sawyer's got the arrogant bad-boy appeal and the charming Southern accent. Meh. The bad boy appeal and accent are over-rated. Don't get me wrong--I like Sawyer and think he's sexy as hell, but I prefer Jack. Yay! Me too. Sawyer's probably the only character that I haven't really warmed to yet.
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Post by Squeemonster on Dec 1, 2005 0:29:03 GMT -5
Hi Sara, Hope you're parents aren't stomping through about now. So what do you think she wants from Jack, love or absolution? No, they actually stayed out of the room the entire time. For a change. What do I think Kate wants from Jack? Hmmm. I'm not sure she's looking for absolution from anyone for what she did to Wayne--not yet, at least. But I think the death of her childhood sweetheart, Tom, does weigh very heavily on her, as she has to believe he'd still be alive if she hadn't killed Wayne and subsequently gone on the run. In fact, I'd wager Jack and Sawyer represent to her, on some level, those two men whose deaths she feels responsible for--two men who were also complete polar opposites. Kate herself admitted that Sawyer and the feelings she has for him bring Wayne to mind--Wayne who represented a part of herself she hated so much that she turned to fire to erase it from existence. After all, she could have killed Wayne lots of ways--both Sawyer and Ana took out their guys who "needed killin'," as Matthew might describe them, pretty economically. Fire, however, doesn't just kill--it consumes and cleanses, leaving next to nothing in its wake. Jack, on the other hand, almost undoubtedly reminds her of Tom. They're both doctors, both fundamentally good people who see the good in her, see her as the person Kate wants to be but doesn't think she can ever become. Upon first meeting her Jack asked Kate for her help, trusting her to do for him what he couldn't do for himself. And I suspect it had been a long while since someone had evinced that kind of immediate and unhesitating faith in her--in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tom was indeed the last person who'd shown her that kind of trust. So, I guess in my roundabout way I'm trying to say I believe Kate does want Jack's love--but I think she wants even more to believe herself worthy of it. #clap# #bid# I like your brain.
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Post by Squeemonster on Dec 1, 2005 0:30:34 GMT -5
Meh. The bad boy appeal and accent are over-rated. Don't get me wrong--I like Sawyer and think he's sexy as hell, but I prefer Jack. Yay! Me too. Sawyer's probably the one character that I haven't really warmed to yet. Oh, thank god someone else likes Jack, too!! I was beginning to feel very lonely around here. ;D
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Post by rich on Dec 1, 2005 3:26:12 GMT -5
Hi Sara, Hope you're parents aren't stomping through about now. So what do you think she wants from Jack, love or absolution? No, they actually stayed out of the room the entire time. For a change. What do I think Kate wants from Jack? Hmmm. I'm not sure she's looking for absolution from anyone for what she did to Wayne--not yet, at least. But I think the death of her childhood sweetheart, Tom, does weigh very heavily on her, as she has to believe he'd still be alive if she hadn't killed Wayne and subsequently gone on the run. In fact, I'd wager Jack and Sawyer represent to her, on some level, those two men whose deaths she feels responsible for--two men who were also complete polar opposites. Kate herself admitted that Sawyer and the feelings she has for him bring Wayne to mind--Wayne who represented a part of herself she hated so much that she turned to fire to erase it from existence. After all, she could have killed Wayne lots of ways--both Sawyer and Ana took out their guys who "needed killin'," as Matthew might describe them, pretty economically. Fire, however, doesn't just kill--it consumes and cleanses, leaving next to nothing in its wake. Jack, on the other hand, almost undoubtedly reminds her of Tom. They're both doctors, both fundamentally good people who see the good in her, see her as the person Kate wants to be but doesn't think she can ever become. Upon first meeting her Jack asked Kate for her help, trusting her to do for him what he couldn't do for himself. And I suspect it had been a long while since someone had evinced that kind of immediate and unhesitating faith in her--in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tom was indeed the last person who'd shown her that kind of trust. So, I guess in my roundabout way I'm trying to say I believe Kate does want Jack's love--but I think she wants even more to believe herself worthy of it. I'm in awe of you. #bid#
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Post by Sara on Dec 1, 2005 9:12:55 GMT -5
No, they actually stayed out of the room the entire time. For a change. What do I think Kate wants from Jack? Hmmm. I'm not sure she's looking for absolution from anyone for what she did to Wayne--not yet, at least. But I think the death of her childhood sweetheart, Tom, does weigh very heavily on her, as she has to believe he'd still be alive if she hadn't killed Wayne and subsequently gone on the run. In fact, I'd wager Jack and Sawyer represent to her, on some level, those two men whose deaths she feels responsible for--two men who were also complete polar opposites. Kate herself admitted that Sawyer and the feelings she has for him bring Wayne to mind--Wayne who represented a part of herself she hated so much that she turned to fire to erase it from existence. After all, she could have killed Wayne lots of ways--both Sawyer and Ana took out their guys who "needed killin'," as Matthew might describe them, pretty economically. Fire, however, doesn't just kill--it consumes and cleanses, leaving next to nothing in its wake. Jack, on the other hand, almost undoubtedly reminds her of Tom. They're both doctors, both fundamentally good people who see the good in her, see her as the person Kate wants to be but doesn't think she can ever become. Upon first meeting her Jack asked Kate for her help, trusting her to do for him what he couldn't do for himself. And I suspect it had been a long while since someone had evinced that kind of immediate and unhesitating faith in her--in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tom was indeed the last person who'd shown her that kind of trust. So, I guess in my roundabout way I'm trying to say I believe Kate does want Jack's love--but I think she wants even more to believe herself worthy of it. I like your brain. And here I was rereading what I wrote thinking "Wow. Does that make any sense at all?"
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Post by Sharky on Dec 1, 2005 9:44:01 GMT -5
Y'all did notice that Mike used the computer for something other than inputting the darn Numbers and the island didn't explode - Dharma head games?
GAIL to which I respond.. yet. But that does bring up an interesting point. How many people here think there really will be an incident if the numbers are not entered and how many think it is just a scam? I'll go with the "scam" opinion. At some point (season's end?) there will be a failure to enter the numbers in time. Then, after the 3 month hiatus, we'll see what happened.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 1, 2005 11:07:41 GMT -5
Stuff happened. Amazing. Jin looks particularly hot this week. It was nice to see Bernard and Rose together. Hurley - "Rose's husband is white! Didn't see that coming." Hee! Hurley is being very caring and sensitive this week, I hope that doesn't mean he's doomed. I said the button was just a test. Looks like I was right. Kate is irritating, and nasty. I feel sorry for her, but her killing her stepdad (who's really her biological dad) was still wrong. So, Kate was saved by a black horse (the Black Stallion, perhaps?), and now her totem horse has turned up on the island. Another loose end from the writers, sigh. By the way, the title of this episode reminded me of something else, which probably isn't relevant, but here it is: There is a children's book called What Katy Did, written, it says here, in 1872. It appears to be one of those "improving" books so beloved of 19th Century authors - Katy is thoughtless, Katy screws up, Katy learns her lesson. Probably just the Lost writers being cute with the title, but interesting. Since we're discussing the coming attractions, I think Mr Enko (Eko?)'s story is parallelling Locke's. It looks as if he, too, is going to get to look into the face of the island.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 1, 2005 11:42:34 GMT -5
This may have been mentioned already (I was very quickly scrolling through the thread last night). I found this in lj land (posted by the_red_shoes who was clued in by someone else). Sayid on the tv!
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 12:38:27 GMT -5
"Do not confuse coincidence with fate." Damn. It's about time SOMEONE said that to Locke. But I'll add my own addendum, as well: "Don't confuse a big-ass rat maze experiment with fate." Someone so intended for the other part of the passengers to have the other part of the film. And I'm telling, you, POOKA. You never, ever approach a black horse in the woods, even if the woods happen to be a jungle.
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 12:41:45 GMT -5
The rest of the film... Very cool. And can I just say I love how skeptical Michael is about this whole deal? Him and me both. You know what I think happens if you fail to input the numbers? Not a frickin' thing. Or else the world really did end, and they're the last surviving humans, and Shambala is actually an island in the South Pacific.
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 12:49:25 GMT -5
Yay! Me too. Sawyer's probably the one character that I haven't really warmed to yet. Oh, thank god someone else likes Jack, too!! I was beginning to feel very lonely around here. ;D Hee. I don't dislike him; I just sorta find him boring. I tend to find angst-ridden men boring, actually. And I'm saving myself for some of that Jin action, anyway. ;D
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 12:51:56 GMT -5
My guess: not entering the numbers is some sort of graduation test. Congratulations, you grew up and stopped doing what you were told without knowing the real reasons why, here's the next door with the next set of surprises behind it.
I also find it interesting that every time Kate needs to escape from the Marshall, there's a crash of some sort....
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Post by Rob on Dec 1, 2005 12:59:30 GMT -5
My guess: not entering the numbers is some sort of graduation test. Congratulations, you grew up and stopped doing what you were told without knowing the real reasons why, here's the next door with the next set of surprises behind it. So all that poured concrete is just...a prop?
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 13:30:54 GMT -5
My guess: not entering the numbers is some sort of graduation test. Congratulations, you grew up and stopped doing what you were told without knowing the real reasons why, here's the next door with the next set of surprises behind it. So all that poured concrete is just...a prop? There are all sorts of explanations for poured concrete that don't involve blowing anything up or melting anything down. Maybe there's a generator of some sort in there. Maybe they DO have nuclear power, but that doesn't mean anything happens if the stupid numbers aren't typed in to the computer. I mean, no matter how you look at it, it's a contrived situation - machinery isn't built to require a code to be typed in every two hours in order for it to continue to work, as a rule. So the only real question, for me, is where the contrivance actually is. Is it a real danger that's been set up to torture unwitting participants? Or is it an experiment in seeing just how long your average human will keep pushing a button out of fear? They have no data, none, that indicates anything truly untoward happens if that code doesn't get input. My question: if it was a real danger, something awful was going to happen, then why not say what, exactly, the danger is in the orientation video? Give people a real reason to be afraid? But no. Instead it's obscure and vague warnings about "incidents". Granted, maybe the video assumes that the people pushing the button were trained by the Dhama Initiative and so they know what "incident" he's referring to. But...if it was really that important, shouldn't there be manuals to read and repair kits and explicit instructions?
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Post by Rachael on Dec 1, 2005 13:44:51 GMT -5
Incidentally (and I don't know if anyone's done this before), "dharma" has several meanings:
a fundamental Buddhist term having several meanings, the broadest of which is 1) "phenomenon." All phenomena are subject to the law of causation, and this fundamental truth comprises the core of the Buddha’s teaching. Thus dharma also means: 2) law, 3) ultimate truth, 4) the Buddha’s teaching, and 5) the doctrines of Buddhism.
derived from the Sanskrit root dhr meaning to hold up, to carry, to bear, to sustain. The word dharma refers to that which upholds or sustains the universe. Human society, for example, is sustained and upheld by the dharma performed by its members. For example, parents protecting and maintaining children, children being obedient to parents, the king protecting the citizens, are acts of dharma that uphold and sustain society. In this context dharma has the meaning of duty. ...
Dharma is the teaching of the Buddha. Though the general meaning of dharma is phenomenon, the term most frequently refers to the Holy Dharma, profound manifestation, and the path that leads all beings to liberation from suffering-to enlightenment.
There are so many things that could be meant by "Dharma"...but it is interesting, to me, that one of the fundamental teachings of Tibetan Buddhism (as I understand from my limited readings of the Dalai Lama's stuff) is that ignorance leads to suffering, so one of the tasks of a person on the path to enlightenment is to work to eliminate ignorance.
As with, for example, WHY you'd be expected to enter a freakin' code every few hours. The real why, not some gussied-up version of "because".
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