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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 7, 2005 17:32:06 GMT -5
Yeah, but what did Wayne do, besides abuse her mother? I got the feeling that he had ever touched Kate. Interesting question, fish1941! And welcome to the S3! I can't decide if the episode really tells us definitively whether or not Wayne did harm to Kate personally. I mean, she says he never touched her (to the marshall - or maybe it was her dad - I can't remember). But we also saw drunken Wayne make a kind of suggestive remark to her and kind of put his hand out and she looks disgusted and moves away. Which could just mean he tends to try things and she just always evades him, or. . . It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to first deny that the person had done something. So, I guess I'm still on the fence about that. But then, I can even see some doubt as to her actually murdering him. 'Cuz we don't see something as straightforward as Sawyer shooting the guy in Australia. We see her come out and the house blows up. Pretty damning, as is her flight and the fact that she never says she didn't do it, but I can also still see some possible other explanations. But then again, I tend to overthink these things. ;D An attempt at Kate self-justification: If Wayne hadn't been drunk, he wouldn't have been in the house when it blew up, and he wouldn't be dead. Therefore, she didn't actually kill him. On the other hand, didn't she say something to her mother about having taken care of him? I don't remember the scene clearly. As far as I'm concerned, Kate murdered Wayne, with malice aforethought. She's an interesting character (although I'm getting a bit tired of her backstory), but I really don't like her. She's unstable, and dangerous.
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Post by Matthew on Dec 8, 2005 2:08:53 GMT -5
Yeah, but what did Wayne do, besides abuse her mother? I got the feeling that he had ever touched Kate. Interesting question, fish1941! And welcome to the S3! I can't decide if the episode really tells us definitively whether or not Wayne did harm to Kate personally. I mean, she says he never touched her (to the marshall - or maybe it was her dad - I can't remember). But we also saw drunken Wayne make a kind of suggestive remark to her and kind of put his hand out and she looks disgusted and moves away. Which could just mean he tends to try things and she just always evades him, or. . . It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to first deny that the person had done something. So, I guess I'm still on the fence about that. But then, I can even see some doubt as to her actually murdering him. 'Cuz we don't see something as straightforward as Sawyer shooting the guy in Australia. We see her come out and the house blows up. Pretty damning, as is her flight and the fact that she never says she didn't do it, but I can also still see some possible other explanations. But then again, I tend to overthink these things. ;D She had flooded the house with natural gas, too: Wayne remarked on the smell as she was staggering him in.
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Post by fish1941 on Dec 12, 2005 13:19:24 GMT -5
I had watched this episode for a second time. Although I managed to enjoy it a little more, but it's still not a big favorite. I think that Kate's little soliquy to Wayne (in the form of Sawyer's unconscious body) makes it perfectly clear that she had killed her father out of hatred for him, and self-hatred of herself. She hates the fact that Wayne is her father and probably believed that by killing him, she would able to wipe away of what she believes are her flaws from herself. But apparently, Wayne's murder had not really solved anything, if her words about not being good enough for Jack is anything to go by.
By the way, Sawyer reminds me of some trailer-trash version of Viggo Mortensen. Does anyone else feel the same?
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 12, 2005 13:46:46 GMT -5
I had watched this episode for a second time. Although I managed to enjoy it a little more, but it's still not a big favorite. I think that Kate's little soliquy to Wayne (in the form of Sawyer's unconscious body) makes it perfectly clear that she had killed her father out of hatred for him, and self-hatred of herself. She hates the fact that Wayne is her father and probably believed that by killing him, she would able to wipe away of what she believes are her flaws from herself. But apparently, Wayne's murder had not really solved anything, if her words about not being good enough for Jack is anything to go by. By the way, Sawyer reminds me of some trailer-trash version of Viggo Mortensen. Does anyone else feel the same? I do think the actors - Viggo M and Josh H - look somewhat alike, except I think of Josh as the better looking one. Of course, you're talking about "Sawyer" here, not Josh H, so I understand why Viggo comes out as the classier of the two. I do think they are reminiscent of one another. Good point that Kate was looking to fix herself - but she ended up just making things worse.
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Post by fish1941 on Dec 14, 2005 12:48:46 GMT -5
I heard another theory . . . that Kate may have had a consensual affair with Wayne, in the past.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 15, 2005 8:43:16 GMT -5
I heard another theory . . . that Kate may have had a consensual affair with Wayne, in the past. Interesting idea. The look on her face when dealing with him was one of . . . disgust and ewwww, so I would never have thought of that. But, actually, that could fit with her being disgusted with herself, that she ever did, and with him, for what he's become.
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Post by fish1941 on Dec 15, 2005 10:56:33 GMT -5
If what I had posted turns out to be true, it might explain why she seems to find Sawyer attractive - much against her will, and why she had imagined Wayne (while channeling Sawyer's body) demanding to know why she had killed him.
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Post by fish1941 on Mar 6, 2006 18:55:15 GMT -5
While watching a recent episode of HOUSE called “Skin Deep”, I noticed how Dr. Gregory House (portrayed by Hugh Laurie) had correctly guessed that a 15 year-old model who was a patient of his, had been molested by “her” possessive father. How did he come to this conclusion? He noticed the close relationship between the model and her father, and how the former seemed overtly concerned with pleasing said father. This scene also brought about memories of the movie, DOLORES CLAIRBORNE. It was based on a Stephen King novel about a Maine woman (played by Kathy Bates) who murders her husband (David Straitharn) in order to stop him from sexually abusing their daughter (Jennifer Jason-Leigh). What I had found interesting is that the daughter over-idealized her abusive father. And he (in flashbacks) over-idealized his mother, who may have been abusive. All of the above had led me to suspect that perhaps, Kate had been sexually abused. Only, she had been abused by her step-father, Sgt. Sam Austen, instead of her real father, Wayne Jensen. After all, this would explain her tendencies to idealize her step-father. And in an odd way, she may have extended or projected this same tendency to idealize over to Jack, who probably reminded her of Sgt. Austen. Below is a link to a web page that lists traits of those (especially adult women) who may have suffered sexual abuse as a child - www.lovetips.com/beyondvictim1.html. Included on the web page is a small list of the following traits: *You feel powerless in important relationships and are terrified of honest confrontations. Yet you try to control and manipulate other people. *If you were sexually abused by your father, you also may have felt unconsciously empowered by him; you are his special girl and you can do and be whatever you choose (as long as you don't replace daddy with a new man in your life with whom you can be truly intimate). Your troubled relationships with men present a sharp contrast to other areas of your life. *You over-idealize your father and fail to see his destructive side while seeing the negative side of your mother and ignoring her positive attributes. Consequently, you over-value and misperceive men while devaluing and discounting women. (Or you may over-idealize your mother and see your father as totally bad. this pattern is common with men who were sexually abused by either their mothers or their fathers.)
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