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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:52:12 GMT -5
Hi Sara, Hope you're parents aren't stomping through about now. So what do you think she wants from Jack, love or absolution? No, they actually stayed out of the room the entire time. For a change. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) What do I think Kate wants from Jack? Hmmm. I'm not sure she's looking for absolution from anyone for what she did to Wayne--not yet, at least. But I think the death of her childhood sweetheart, Tom, does weigh very heavily on her, as she has to believe he'd still be alive if she hadn't killed Wayne and subsequently gone on the run. In fact, I'd wager Jack and Sawyer represent to her, on some level, those two men whose deaths she feels responsible for--two men who were also complete polar opposites. Kate herself admitted that Sawyer and the feelings she has for him bring Wayne to mind--Wayne who represented a part of herself she hated so much that she turned to fire to erase it from existence. After all, she could have killed Wayne lots of ways--both Sawyer and Ana took out their guys who "needed killin'," as Matthew might describe them, pretty economically. Fire, however, doesn't just kill--it consumes and cleanses, leaving next to nothing in its wake. Jack, on the other hand, almost undoubtedly reminds her of Tom. They're both doctors, both fundamentally good people who see the good in her, see her as the person Kate wants to be but doesn't think she can ever become. Upon first meeting her Jack asked Kate for her help, trusting her to do for him what he couldn't do for himself. And I suspect it had been a long while since someone had evinced that kind of immediate and unhesitating faith in her--in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tom was indeed the last person who'd shown her that kind of trust. So, I guess in my roundabout way I'm trying to say I believe Kate does want Jack's love--but I think she wants even more to believe herself worthy of it. Yes, I can definitely see that. And it would fit with the way she's acted around the two men all along. **nods**
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:53:24 GMT -5
Oh my god! It's a pooka! That's what the thing on the island is! Don't go for a ride, whatever you do.... Also...whoa. Don't piss off The Kate, I guess, huh? Divorce wasn't good enough for her? And...aww. Jin and Sun. And shirtless DDK. Which all of life needs more of. #rofl1# Ahem. Yes. Shirtless DDK is a very good thing.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:54:08 GMT -5
Interesting. Charlie is calling the Tailenders "them". I kept meaning to mention this: there are Them and The Others, and there are them/the others, that is the fronties to the tailenders and vice versa. And the others are mistaken for The Others quite a bit. That's not coherent. I'm tired. **nods** Actually, I know exactly what you meant. I think. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:55:40 GMT -5
Abs of Jin!!! love the actress who plays Kate's mom loved Kate's flashbacks, never seen another episode with Kate-Flashbacks. Jin getting his handcuff off connecting to handcuffed Kate Actually referenced Lord Of The Flies (though maybe it's not the first time) I was really intrigued by the possibility that no one would type the code in time. Then we would see what would happen. loved the Jack Kate kiss. getting back to the film, yay! Healthy dose of skepticism and the film splices love Hurley for talking to Jack "Are we saved?" "no, Sawyer, not yet" Yay Michael for thinking outside the box! And Walt! Or is it? Though I not comfortable with the idea of threesomes, due to my catholic upbringing, I'm finding it to be a compelling possible solution to love triangles in fiction. Go Jack/Kate/Sawyer! Can't they all just get along? Really liked the film splicing thing. Because we got more info, but also because it made it seem even more obvious that additional film is still missing. **coughIhavenoproblemwiththreesomescough** ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ;D
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:56:45 GMT -5
Good possibillity on that: but I think it's more complicated, in that she sees herself in Sawyer, too. And face it, Sawyer's got the arrogant bad-boy appeal and the charming Southern accent. Meh. The bad boy appeal and accent are over-rated. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Don't get me wrong--I like Sawyer and think he's sexy as hell, but I prefer Jack. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I'd toss 'em all over for Sayid. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:03:23 GMT -5
This may have been mentioned already (I was very quickly scrolling through the thread last night). I found this in lj land (posted by the_red_shoes who was clued in by someone else). Sayid on the tv! ![](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b291/spacedoutlooney/th_thatsjustsayid.jpg) Yay!! I love finding all the little intersection moments on this show!
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:04:34 GMT -5
"Do not confuse coincidence with fate." Damn. It's about time SOMEONE said that to Locke. But I'll add my own addendum, as well: "Don't confuse a big-ass rat maze experiment with fate." Someone so intended for the other part of the passengers to have the other part of the film. And I'm telling, you, POOKA. You never, ever approach a black horse in the woods, even if the woods happen to be a jungle. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) **nods nods nods** A big-ol' big-ass rat maze experiment! **snickering over the POOKA, except you might actually be right, too**
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:05:56 GMT -5
My guess: not entering the numbers is some sort of graduation test. Congratulations, you grew up and stopped doing what you were told without knowing the real reasons why, here's the next door with the next set of surprises behind it. I also find it interesting that every time Kate needs to escape from the Marshall, there's a crash of some sort.... Oooh, I like the graduation idea. Like all those SciFi stories where the advanced aliens only talk to you after you prove you are smart enough to handle them.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:08:33 GMT -5
"Do not confuse coincidence with fate."
Damn. It's about time SOMEONE said that to Locke. But I'll add my own addendum, as well: "Don't confuse a big-ass rat maze experiment with fate." Someone so intended for the other part of the passengers to have the other part of the film. And I'm telling, you, POOKA. You never, ever approach a black horse in the woods, even if the woods happen to be a jungle. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) ![](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Yorick28/smileys/eetah.gif) That may have been my favorite line of the evening. It's such an interesting contrast; you have Locke, who sees meaning and connections everywhere and interprets them as more evidence his faith is well-placed, and you have Eko, who by all appearances doesn't need such connections to maintain his belief. Interesting point. Locke does tend to demand his proof that the island is working the way he wants it to.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:10:21 GMT -5
Very, very cool. Thanks for telling us about this, Liz. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) And I'm almost certain that Jack is sitting at a desk in the same scene, in uniform, with a short haircut. Behind Kate as she's facing her dad. Ooooh. 'Cuz we've been speculating that he spent some time in the army - what with the hair and the tats and so on. Confirmation would bring a whole 'nother layer to Jack and his actions, wouldn't it?
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:11:43 GMT -5
So this is her mom? Yeah, that was daddy. Or stepdaddy. You know, you really shouldn't confess to the crime before your mom knows about it. IN FRONT OF WITNESSES, no less. Yeah, Jack, she's right. As community leader, it's kinda your duty. Hell, no, she's not okay. She's "fine" for "Farked-up, Insecure, Neurotic, and Emotional" gotta face what you do, Ana-Lucia. Be easier to face everyone else if you show up, and show your face and your sorrow. </my two cents>Man, Naveen does anguish so beautifully. C'mon Jack, say something inspiring. Or at least hand the ball off to Hurley. Ah. Communal ceremony. Who practices that "everyone pours in a handful of dirt" custom? Ah, Patsy...... "Why did you kill me?!"? Huh? I dunno--I tend to think she did the right thing by staying away. Regardless of whether the folks there think it was an accident, Ana is still the reason they're putting a friend--a fellow survivor--in the ground. A service like that is meant as a way to pay homage to Shannon's life; if Ana showed up all, it'd all but guarantee that everyone would instead focus on Shannon's death. At least, that's my two cents. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) **nods** I can see very good reasons for staying away, and the fact that you would draw attention away from the person they are supposed to be laying to rest is a good one.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 14:12:18 GMT -5
And I'm almost certain that Jack is sitting at a desk in the same scene, in uniform, with a short haircut. Behind Kate as she's facing her dad. I went back and slo-mo-ed through that entire scene and there is no Jack there at all. Neither the soldier at hte desk nor the (presumably) new recruit. Sorry. Vlad Aww, darn. It would have been such a cool double intersection. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Dec 6, 2005 21:15:30 GMT -5
Two thoughts occurring to me:
1) Kate's actions remind me of Goodwin's explanation to Ana-Lucia about Nathan (I think): "he wasn't a good person."
2) Seems like an overarching theme for the show is the experience on the island providing our survivors with second chances.
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Post by fish1941 on Dec 7, 2005 17:15:43 GMT -5
"So, Rose's husband's white... didn't see that one coming" Hurley proves again that he is the good shaman. And one of the most perceptive people on the island. "Sure, I'll stay, provided he doesn't try to strangle me again while being possessed by the spirit of my dead stepfather." Huh.. seeing her real dad. help, asylum. Huh. He's not her real father. EW. WAYNE was. EWWW. That explains the timing, then. Oh, god, what a question to ask. I don't think that she has murder in her heart as much as justice.... and the feeling of betrayal. "Wayne?" oh my. Yeah, but what did Wayne do, besides abuse her mother? I got the feeling that he had ever touched Kate.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 7, 2005 17:26:41 GMT -5
"So, Rose's husband's white... didn't see that one coming" Hurley proves again that he is the good shaman. And one of the most perceptive people on the island. "Sure, I'll stay, provided he doesn't try to strangle me again while being possessed by the spirit of my dead stepfather." Huh.. seeing her real dad. help, asylum. Huh. He's not her real father. EW. WAYNE was. EWWW. That explains the timing, then. Oh, god, what a question to ask. I don't think that she has murder in her heart as much as justice.... and the feeling of betrayal. "Wayne?" oh my. Yeah, but what did Wayne do, besides abuse her mother? I got the feeling that he had ever touched Kate. Interesting question, fish1941! And welcome to the S3! I can't decide if the episode really tells us definitively whether or not Wayne did harm to Kate personally. I mean, she says he never touched her (to the marshall - or maybe it was her dad - I can't remember). But we also saw drunken Wayne make a kind of suggestive remark to her and kind of put his hand out and she looks disgusted and moves away. Which could just mean he tends to try things and she just always evades him, or. . . It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to first deny that the person had done something. So, I guess I'm still on the fence about that. But then, I can even see some doubt as to her actually murdering him. 'Cuz we don't see something as straightforward as Sawyer shooting the guy in Australia. We see her come out and the house blows up. Pretty damning, as is her flight and the fact that she never says she didn't do it, but I can also still see some possible other explanations. But then again, I tend to overthink these things. ;D
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