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Post by Sara on May 19, 2006 12:52:21 GMT -5
Could be. Sawyer did seem to be taking Ana-Lucia's death harder than I'd expect. To me, it felt more like guilt and generalized being tired of having no real connections in the world than it felt like real grief. If he hadn't screwed her, that gun wouldn't have made it into the hatch. And no matter who pulled the trigger, that means that Ana-Lucia and Libby would still be alive if it wasn't for Sawyer. Doesn't make it his fault, but it does make for some lovely guilt. And he DOES like Hurley, whether he admits it or not. I think he's transferring guilt and sadness over how Hurley feels to his not-really-all-that-serious feelings for Ana-Lucia. On a different note: am I the only one displeased by Charlie's disposal of the heroin? Heroin, in the hands of a medical professional, is a very useful drug. They're short on painkillers and sedatives as it is. First Charlie is irresponsible enough to give an unknown vaccine to Claire instead of Jack...and then he disposes of the only good supply of opiates on the island. Nope--I turned to Greg and said "Um, they could use that if they need to make more morphine." Greg nodded and agreed that it wasn't Charlie's brightest move.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 19, 2006 16:28:51 GMT -5
To me, it felt more like guilt and generalized being tired of having no real connections in the world than it felt like real grief. If he hadn't screwed her, that gun wouldn't have made it into the hatch. And no matter who pulled the trigger, that means that Ana-Lucia and Libby would still be alive if it wasn't for Sawyer. Doesn't make it his fault, but it does make for some lovely guilt. And he DOES like Hurley, whether he admits it or not. I think he's transferring guilt and sadness over how Hurley feels to his not-really-all-that-serious feelings for Ana-Lucia. On a different note: am I the only one displeased by Charlie's disposal of the heroin? Heroin, in the hands of a medical professional, is a very useful drug. They're short on painkillers and sedatives as it is. First Charlie is irresponsible enough to give an unknown vaccine to Claire instead of Jack...and then he disposes of the only good supply of opiates on the island. Nope--I turned to Greg and said "Um, they could use that if they need to make more morphine." Greg nodded and agreed that it wasn't Charlie's brightest move. My take was the same - Charlie went with his first impulse (I need to get this stuff away from me!) and didn't think beyond that. A moment's thought would have led him to the conclusion that a smarter thing to do would be to tell Jack all about it and ask him to lock the heroin up tight. But Charlie is not that good at impulse control. I also agree that those statues could wash back up to shore, with at least some of the heroin still usable.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 19, 2006 16:37:13 GMT -5
To me, it felt more like guilt and generalized being tired of having no real connections in the world than it felt like real grief. If he hadn't screwed her, that gun wouldn't have made it into the hatch. And no matter who pulled the trigger, that means that Ana-Lucia and Libby would still be alive if it wasn't for Sawyer. Doesn't make it his fault, but it does make for some lovely guilt. And he DOES like Hurley, whether he admits it or not. I think he's transferring guilt and sadness over how Hurley feels to his not-really-all-that-serious feelings for Ana-Lucia. **nods again** Sawyer really does like Hurley, deep down, doesn't he? And there's a boatload of guilt feelings floating around the whole bunch of them. Ah, but once Vincent revealed that he knew about the drugs, it probably is best to get rid of it once and for all. I mean, do you really want to hand that much more power over to the all-knowing all-seeing dog-master of the island? I must object to the "Vincent is evil" speculations! He is a good, sweet, innocent doggie!
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Post by Lola m on May 19, 2006 16:40:31 GMT -5
**nods again** Sawyer really does like Hurley, deep down, doesn't he? And there's a boatload of guilt feelings floating around the whole bunch of them. Ah, but once Vincent revealed that he knew about the drugs, it probably is best to get rid of it once and for all. I mean, do you really want to hand that much more power over to the all-knowing all-seeing dog-master of the island? I must object to the "Vincent is evil" speculations! He is a good, sweet, innocent doggie! Yah, you keep on believing that, Spring! You're playing right into his cute little doggie paws; the same paws that are pulling all the strings on the island . . .
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Post by Rob on May 19, 2006 18:28:11 GMT -5
Nope--I turned to Greg and said "Um, they could use that if they need to make more morphine." Greg nodded and agreed that it wasn't Charlie's brightest move. Out of curiosity...what exactly DOES constitute Charlie's brightest move? So far, I'm stuck.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 19, 2006 18:32:29 GMT -5
Nope--I turned to Greg and said "Um, they could use that if they need to make more morphine." Greg nodded and agreed that it wasn't Charlie's brightest move. Out of curiosity...what exactly DOES constitute Charlie's brightest move? So far, I'm stuck. When he gave Claire the imaginary peanut butter? It was a sweet thought, and the kind of comfort she needed at the time. Aside from that, I got nothing.
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Post by Squeemonster on May 19, 2006 18:50:39 GMT -5
Nope--I turned to Greg and said "Um, they could use that if they need to make more morphine." Greg nodded and agreed that it wasn't Charlie's brightest move. Out of curiosity...what exactly DOES constitute Charlie's brightest move? So far, I'm stuck. I had that same thought.
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Post by Rob on May 19, 2006 19:28:45 GMT -5
Out of curiosity...what exactly DOES constitute Charlie's brightest move? So far, I'm stuck. When he gave Claire the imaginary peanut butter? It was a sweet thought, and the kind of comfort she needed at the time. Aside from that, I got nothing. Ah, that's not bad. Also, that whole sleepwalking "Aaron must be baptized" episode. Perhaps that will make some sort of sense with time...you know, beyond setting up Charlie's actions as Sawyer's accomplice.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 19, 2006 22:08:38 GMT -5
13 days ago
This incident paralleling the shooting incident. Or perhaps the other way around.
Not taking an army across the island (ref. Jack's long forgotten/abandoned idea)
So Michael did meet a guy, but not so much followed him as got captured.
That explains all the gun shots
"We need him"
Blood stain. Macbeth?
Nothing freaks me out more than Eko simply saying "Hello."
Eko was briefly in England.
Dog story. creepy. and appropriate in a One of Them way.
Suspicious
Claire and Baby Aaron
Charlie is forgiven? Sort of?
Vaccine was on the pallet
Charlie's got the vaccine now.
Michael reunited. The crew learns of the tragedy. I'm confused by the timeline again.
"They were murdered."
Here's the other side of this scene.
So there really were more of Us than Them.
Alex. What is her story? Reluctant but helping the Others anyway.
So the Others automatically have more than 2 guns. Jack should of put that together.
Vincent!
I'm not Irish. Neither am I. Hee. What is that saying about how everyone's Irish?
We got caught in a net.
Communication sucks in the group right now.
God, I never thought Sawyer would be the voice of reason.
What is in the water that makes Jack et al so clueless?
Group is fracturing. Everyone myopically focused on their own personal endeavors.
Eko's bachelor pad. Bam chicka waa waa.
What am I supposed to do? Think for yourself?
11 days ago. Takes 2 days to get to the camp.
rock formation
blood sample?
See you in the funny pages. Hmm...
Miss Klue? Who is this chick?
Did Walt ever appear in a place he wasn't supposed to be? Astral projection?
For some one who wants his son back so badly, you don't know much about him. Yep, that's the crux of their relationship.
The Other's seem to know so much, but they don't know about Michael's estrangement from Walt?
Vincent's pushing Heroin now?
Hey, he could be one of those drug sniffing dogs.
Nice try, Charlie, but they're just going to wash up on shore later.
I screwed her. Well Jack got caught in a net while Sawyer got screwed. Jack: 0 Sawyer: 1.
Jack is the closest thing Sawyer's got to a friend? Really?
Interesting makeshift shovels
Hurley's not the vengeance type. Seems like the only one.
3 days ago
So the Others do care about "Henry" or are they pretending?
Is this just to see if Michael will do it?
Picketts
3 minutes
They make Walt take tests
"They're pretending" so Michael's got some inkling of that, provided he remembers.
The Others know Sawyer=James Ford
Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer. And the connection is?
Michael wants the boat. So he does have some inkling of that.
So, there's no request to kill Ana-Lucia or Libby or anyone. But if Michael had just knocked whoever was guarding "Henry" out, they would have been able to bear witness. So not sure he had another option in so short a time. It is very disturbing that Michael was able to come up with that himself. And is *all that* *really* worth a shady promise to see Walt again?
Another funeral.
All together but Locke
And his leg really did heal faster.
Where is Locke going?
Again, what is Jack smoking that makes him so clueless?
1 more night before they go to the camp.
A psychologist...or psychiatrist. One of those. Hee!
That's one accusatory look Hurley gives Michael
Hurley says "I'm going with you" and none of the non-regular Losties say, "Going where? Can I come?"
A sailboat? Desmond's boat? Is this the boat that Michael was talking about, not the other one?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 20, 2006 8:39:33 GMT -5
OK. I finally posted an explanation of sorts about what I meant about alienation vs anomie in the last episode thread, ?.
I did find Eko rather flighty in this episode. He starts one project inspired by a dream for another project inspired by a dream? And both projects provide a certain amount of meaning and social structure. That I'm not so sure I understand. He's not so much focused on the community aspect as taking up a new personal mission.
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Post by Matthew on May 20, 2006 8:40:37 GMT -5
13 days ago This incident paralleling the shooting incident. Or perhaps the other way around. Not taking an army across the island (ref. Jack's long forgotten/abandoned idea) <SNIP> That's one accusatory look Hurley gives Michael Hurley says "I'm going with you" and none of the non-regular Losties say, "Going where? Can I come?" A sailboat? Desmond's boat? Is this the boat that Michael was talking about, not the other one? I thought that the look that Jack gave Michael was pretty "I know what you did two episodes ago, Mike." And I think the boat that Michael was talking about with Ms. Klugh (that's how the captioning spelled it, but they messed up "Mr. Eko" before) was the motor launch or whatever it was that Zeke et. al. were on when they kidnapped Walt from him in the first place. NO clue what the Marie Celeste is doing there near the shore....
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Post by SpringSummers on May 20, 2006 17:17:51 GMT -5
13 days ago This incident paralleling the shooting incident. Or perhaps the other way around. Not taking an army across the island (ref. Jack's long forgotten/abandoned idea) <SNIP> That's one accusatory look Hurley gives Michael Hurley says "I'm going with you" and none of the non-regular Losties say, "Going where? Can I come?" A sailboat? Desmond's boat? Is this the boat that Michael was talking about, not the other one? I thought that the look that Jack gave Michael was pretty "I know what you did two episodes ago, Mike." And I think the boat that Michael was talking about with Ms. Klugh (that's how the captioning spelled it, but they messed up "Mr. Eko" before) was the motor launch or whatever it was that Zeke et. al. were on when they kidnapped Walt from him in the first place. NO clue what the Marie Celeste is doing there near the shore.... I didn't tape the ep, but I remember the impression that there was no one on the boat that everyone saw.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 20, 2006 17:23:36 GMT -5
OK. I finally posted an explanation of sorts about what I meant about alienation vs anomie in the last episode thread, ?. I did find Eko rather flighty in this episode. He starts one project inspired by a dream for another project inspired by a dream? And both projects provide a certain amount of meaning and social structure. That I'm not so sure I understand. He's not so much focused on the community aspect as taking up a new personal mission. Thanks for posting that stuff, Liz. I think you're on the right track with it, as far as what is being addressed. For me - Eko's apparent philosophy here is not my cup of tea at all. I buy the idea that people need a purpose, a reason for being, sense of community, identity, responsibility, etc - for life to be meaningful. I don't buy this sort of "any port in a storm" thing Eko seems to be espousing. Surely, the Losties can find - better yet, can create - a more meaningful purpose than what has been created, so artificially, for them (button pushing).
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Post by Karen on May 20, 2006 20:46:55 GMT -5
When he gave Claire the imaginary peanut butter? It was a sweet thought, and the kind of comfort she needed at the time. Aside from that, I got nothing. Ah, that's not bad. Also, that whole sleepwalking "Aaron must be baptized" episode. Perhaps that will make some sort of sense with time...you know, beyond setting up Charlie's actions as Sawyer's accomplice. Well, Charlie did save Jack when the cave collapsed. He is the type of person that needs constant validation or he isn't happy.
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Post by William the Bloody on May 24, 2006 11:03:01 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. I most definitely agree. The whole deal stinks. Michael has never been shown to be someone able to go to such lengths as premeditated murder... especially when there were plenty of other options to achieve the release of Gale. It's not like the murder of Anna even came close to guarranteeing that the specific 4 he wnated would follow him of to the Others. I figured he had been brain washed as well. Finally when I saw the Other jab him with the syringe I thought "Aha!" but then it turned out he was jsut drawing blood. No, the whole Michael as murderer plotline is leaving me cold because I jsut dont see it. It comes from nowhere to me. Vlad
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