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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 17:39:15 GMT -5
Why? It doesn't make any sense. Between the beginning of "Abandoned" and the time they had sex in "Two For the Road", they had NOT INTERACTED with each other. And we're talking about at least fourteen episodes. In "Two For the Road", Ana-Lucia had sex with Sawyer, so that she could get his gun. And he eventually realized this and called her a "b*tch". So, I ask you - why on earth would Sawyer get emotional over Ana-Lucia's death? There is no reason for him to do so. Why is it that Sawyer becomes emotional and Jack acts as if Ana-Lucia was a near stranger? So we can forget about the writers' previous plans for a Jack/Ana relationship? And why are so many fans forgetting the fact that Sawyer has no real reason to react to Ana-Lucia's death, the way he did? Apparently, the writers have forgotten about another gun - the one that Charlie had acquired, when he helped Sawyer with the con job, back in "The Long Con". Neither Ana-Lucia, Sayid or Jack never asked about it. Why? Because Sawyer, despite his bastard-like exterior, actually is not particularly a sadist, and he had respect for Ana-Lucia, even if he didn't particularly like her. Particularly, I feel, for the way she conned an experienced con man out of his gun. Plus, the character's a human rather than just a cardboard cutout.Because they've been busy and preoccupied?
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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 17:42:58 GMT -5
And fortunately, little Virgin Mary statues should come rolling back to shore before too long, much like heroin cast upon the waters.
I think that Charlie was a twit to throw it away, but it speaks well of his desire to not let it control him anymore. To ceremoniously flush it from his life. And it's important that Locke was watching him do it.
But the virgin mary statues are just gonna roll right back up on the beach....
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 18, 2006 18:25:06 GMT -5
And fortunately, little Virgin Mary statues should come rolling back to shore before too long, much like heroin cast upon the waters. I think that Charlie was a twit to throw it away, but it speaks well of his desire to not let it control him anymore. To ceremoniously flush it from his life. And it's important that Locke was watching him do it. But the virgin mary statues are just gonna roll right back up on the beach.... I'm sure they will, and at the worst possible time. It reminds me of Hurley throwing out all that food he'd hoarded, too. Speaking of not thinking ahead, wasn't it Jack's bright idea to burn the fuselage, way back when? Anne, if I remember correctly And hee! at the heroin cast upon the waters. That should make things fun for the fish, if there's any leakage.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:27:27 GMT -5
Aaaargh! I set my tape wrong and so did not tape either Alias or Lost! What's worse is that I was actually home for Lost but thought, no, I'll watch it on the tape later. Darn it! Would someone mind giving a recap? Please?! I... uh.. Huh. Michael got caught handily by the others, and they sent him back with a laundry list of people to bring back: Jack, Hugo, Sawyer, and Kate. Sayid figures he's been compromised and warns Jack, and tells him that they have another night to come up with another plan to deal with the fact that he thinks Michael is going to lead them into a trap. They bury Ana-Lucia and Libby, Then everyone turns around and sees a sailboat. There was other stuff, involving a touching moment between claire and charlie, Charlie tossing the smack out to sea, and some slasheriffic stuff between jack and Sawyer, where Sawyer calls him "the closest thing I have to a friend now" And more stuff I can't quite remember.. You can download the episode, tomorrow, for free, off of ABC.com! Whew!! Man, you did a far better job than I could have picking out the big main events!
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:29:01 GMT -5
More funerals. Locke lurking on the beach, away from the rest.. And his leg's healed up after three, four days? Where's he wandering to? "I think Michael has been compromised" "Keep walking Jack" I LOVE it that that they've got an experienced intelligence agent on their side. LISTEN to Sayid. <snipped> BOAT!? BOAT!!! SHIT! BOAT!!!!!! OMGWTFSAILBOAT! I love that about Sayid, too. I KNEW he wasn't buying it, and I cheered when he told Jack what he was thinking. I also loved the Jack/Sawyer exchange. ;D I'll be trolling the net (heh, heh--the net) for some new fic the next few days.... And, OMGWTFBBQSAILBOAT!1!1!!1! ;D ;D ;D Right there with you, scooter!
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:33:24 GMT -5
Random thoughts: 1. Interesting that Vincent leads Charlie to the heroin once the solo church-building started. Almost as if the dog decided Charlie was ready to take a key step in his recovery. Vincent = smartest one on the island. I am starting to believe that you are all correct in this, and I truly hope so. Because having Eko become just a button pusher groupie . . . is not good. ;D Um, ye-ah! I guess Charlie is just too used to the idea of self-medicating. This season even more so than last season - and that's saying something. #metoo#
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:47:17 GMT -5
Thoughts. Fast, incoherent because not awake, but thoughts: Three minutes? Funny, seemed more like, say, six months. **snicker** **high fives Anne** I too keep trying to find a thread that links all of them. It could very well be some kind of mystical link to the island (Hurley and the numbers comes to mind, for example). Or maybe if we go back to the idea of the "good ones" and think of it as "good for the Others". In other words, maybe they are just shopping for all the folks that they need for their own wacky Other reasons? Liked that scene too - it nicely matches last season's moment, talking about Jack's dad. Thanks for pointing that out - I'd noticed, but hadn't really noticed that, but you are very right. Charlie is perhaps getting to a better place, but I totally agree with you on the injections. I have a not-that-good feeling about them. #rofl1# He gave the best weeks of his life to the island and now it throws him over for the next big hunky guy with a Jesus stick and a cryptic way of talking! ;D I dunno. I thought it had an odor of "you whined about us not answering any big questions at the end of last season, so this year we're gonna throw more answers at you than you could ever imagine - and you'll still come back for more next year". ;D Heeeeeee!!
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:48:02 GMT -5
Micheal snagged pretty darn quickly. Was that the same bearded guy? These guys looked . . . legitimately bearded. "The boy did not care about forgiveness". Only worried the dog would be there waiting. Well, well. Mr. Eko - always ther with the teaching story. It's gotta be the way I say. It's gotta be just the 5 of us. The Others only want those 5? But if only the 5 go, at LEAST tell all the others where you went and so on . . . Make some alternate or back up plans and stuff. I mean at least try to think of this logically. Claire and Charlie . . . Yay!! The rest of the plane folk are told that Michael's back! Awwww, everyone's so happy. And then they see the other bodies . . . "They were murdered." Well. That's a truthful statement. Why do they want those 5? **nods** That's the big question all right.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:53:32 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Somehow I keep going back to the looks on his face as he shot them. I think somehow the Ana shooting was part of the deal . . . maybe some conversation we did see between him and Mrs. Clue(sp?) or not!Henry? And I'm firmly convinced now that Libby surprised him and he shot without thinking. I mean, yes, he would probably haved wanted her dead so she wasn't a witness, but the actual shooting I think was just a reaction to the moment. The Ana L shooting requires a bit more fanwanking for me than Libby does, that's for sure. Because, yes, I can see how he could perhaps have snuck not!Henry out another way. Then again, I think he is under a deadline from the Others, so . . . I don't think I have much other than the above, so I'll be looking forward to what others have to say too.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:56:14 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. First, I agree with you--there's no excuse for what Michael did. However, I'm not sure he's completely indifferent or callous about what he did--his reaction upon shooting each woman, particularly Libby, indicated to me that he was pretty horrified with his actions on some level. But I think he's also convinced himself that such a step was necessary in order to save Walt. I've been trying to get myself into Michael's mindset to try and figure out what's led him down this particular road, and here's what I've come up with. - First, he's probably gotten very little sleep since Walt was taken from him, which in and of itself has no doubt severely impaired his ability to think clearly.
- He's very conscious of how little he's been involved in Walt's life, an awareness only heightened by that brutal exchange with Miss Clue, and I suspect that the more inadequate he feels as a father the more determined he becomes to do right by Walt now, come hell or high water.
- As I recall Michael is an architect/engineer, so he's most likely very linear in his mindset--he takes or looks for straight-line paths between goals, and tends to think very much inside the box. So whereas someone like Sawyer or Sayid would almost immediately have been inclined to find a more roundabout route towards the goal of releasing Henry (witness how Sawyer obtained the guns), Michael could only see the most obvious and straightforward means to his end. Yes, he did make an attempt at subterfuge, but one he clearly didn't think through all the way--if one person sits down for an hour and considers Michael's story objectively they're gonna find all sorts of holes in it.
- And finally, I think Michael is truly desperate to get Walt back, to the exclusion of all other considerations. I suspect he honestly believes that what he did to Ana Lucia and Libby and what he's about to do to his friends will be justified if it ends with him and Walt getting off the island. He's out for them and them alone: no one else matters.
Anyway, that's what I'm coming up with this morning. I like all these thoughts, Anne - Matthew - Sara. Whether or not he's truly gone nusto or not, the idea of all these things pushing him over the edge in some way is believable to me.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 19:57:52 GMT -5
Oh I see. I don't think the actor sold it enough then because I didn't get the vibe that he was losing it in that scene with Walt. He just seemed the same old Michael to me. A little sneakier but not totally off the bend. Hmmmm. Thanks Anne, Michael. Well, in the scene with Walt, they hadn't told him "run down to the beach, free "Henry" and pick up these four on this list, or you'll never see your boy again" yet. He hadn't quite hit the full-on desperate crazy. He was having his "Lady MacBeth" moment, in cleaning the floor, when Eko came in and told him "I know what you did" basically. And last week, the closing scene, with Michael standing in the "Jail Cell" room with the alarm chirping,and that look of complete lostness on his face: all I could think of is "It is the beeping of his hideous heart!!!!" Heeeee! ;D And also, good thought there! I think more than just Jack saw something in Michael's eyes at the grave.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 20:01:58 GMT -5
Last night I found interesting, because it's clear that The Others have an interest in Walt that has to do with his psychic powers (whatever they are), and also - they know EXACTLY who was on that plane. Right down to Sawyer's real name. Which I find fascinating. **nods a lot** The depth of their knowledge regarding the plane folks is very very intriguing. The absolute oddness of insisting on "it has to be my way" and not wanting Sayid (why would you care if he was only after revenge on not!Henry - wouldn't that work just fine in your plan to attack the Others?) to come along simply had to be noticed by someone or I was gonna smack them all. I think Jack was reacting out of guilt because he didn't manage to help Michael look for Walt earlier.
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Post by Lola m on May 18, 2006 20:05:49 GMT -5
Could be. Sawyer did seem to be taking Ana-Lucia's death harder than I'd expect. To me, it felt more like guilt and generalized being tired of having no real connections in the world than it felt like real grief. If he hadn't screwed her, that gun wouldn't have made it into the hatch. And no matter who pulled the trigger, that means that Ana-Lucia and Libby would still be alive if it wasn't for Sawyer. Doesn't make it his fault, but it does make for some lovely guilt. And he DOES like Hurley, whether he admits it or not. I think he's transferring guilt and sadness over how Hurley feels to his not-really-all-that-serious feelings for Ana-Lucia. **nods again** Sawyer really does like Hurley, deep down, doesn't he? And there's a boatload of guilt feelings floating around the whole bunch of them. Ah, but once Vincent revealed that he knew about the drugs, it probably is best to get rid of it once and for all. I mean, do you really want to hand that much more power over to the all-knowing all-seeing dog-master of the island?
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Post by Squeemonster on May 18, 2006 20:34:59 GMT -5
Why? It doesn't make any sense. Between the beginning of "Abandoned" and the time they had sex in "Two For the Road", they had NOT INTERACTED with each other. And we're talking about at least fourteen episodes. In "Two For the Road", Ana-Lucia had sex with Sawyer, so that she could get his gun. And he eventually realized this and called her a "b*tch". So, I ask you - why on earth would Sawyer get emotional over Ana-Lucia's death? There is no reason for him to do so. Why is it that Sawyer becomes emotional and Jack acts as if Ana-Lucia was a near stranger? So we can forget about the writers' previous plans for a Jack/Ana relationship? And why are so many fans forgetting the fact that Sawyer has no real reason to react to Ana-Lucia's death, the way he did? Apparently, the writers have forgotten about another gun - the one that Charlie had acquired, when he helped Sawyer with the con job, back in "The Long Con". Neither Ana-Lucia, Sayid or Jack never asked about it. Why? Because Sawyer, despite his bastard-like exterior, actually is not particularly a sadist, and he had respect for Ana-Lucia, even if he didn't particularly like her. Particularly, I feel, for the way she conned an experienced con man out of his gun. Plus, the character's a human rather than just a cardboard cutout.Because they've been busy and preoccupied? Well said.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 18, 2006 21:10:04 GMT -5
Thoughts. Fast, incoherent because not awake, but thoughts: Three minutes? Funny, seemed more like, say, six months. **snicker** **high fives Anne** I too keep trying to find a thread that links all of them. It could very well be some kind of mystical link to the island (Hurley and the numbers comes to mind, for example). Or maybe if we go back to the idea of the "good ones" and think of it as "good for the Others". In other words, maybe they are just shopping for all the folks that they need for their own wacky Other reasons? Liked that scene too - it nicely matches last season's moment, talking about Jack's dad. Thanks for pointing that out - I'd noticed, but hadn't really noticed that, but you are very right. Charlie is perhaps getting to a better place, but I totally agree with you on the injections. I have a not-that-good feeling about them. He gave the best weeks of his life to the island and now it throws him over for the next big hunky guy with a Jesus stick and a cryptic way of talking! ;D I dunno. I thought it had an odor of "you whined about us not answering any big questions at the end of last season, so this year we're gonna throw more answers at you than you could ever imagine - and you'll still come back for more next year". ;D Heeeeeee!! #rofl1#!
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