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Post by raenstorm on Oct 27, 2004 15:46:46 GMT -5
Ack! I have pages to catch up on but I have to go pick up a kid at preschool... I'll be back tonight to catch up
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Post by Sue on Oct 27, 2004 17:59:02 GMT -5
I am just filled with amazement at how you see so many themes. (Not to mention how you write about them coherently so quickly.)
I especially loved this imagine of the truth spilling forth. Indeed the search for truth is clearly a recurring theme on VM. Well, it's a PI show, that's at least partially to be expected. But, there have been plenty of detectives out there in TV land and it's often less about finding the truth than it is solving the crime. It's a fine line, but Veronica wants more than to just "solve" the crime. In the midst of crime-solving she's also searching for the "truth"-- the truth about who she is, who her mother is, what love is, how her parents love her, maybe even the meaning of life type truth.
The line between fiction and reality. Seems like lots of characters have created their own "fictional" worlds. Duncan, for one, is living in a not-so-real world of non-pain and medicated emotions.
This character is clearly a fighter. No soft-music, soft-lighting, soft-peddling for her. She's always going to chose to look, chose to know, chose to go for the whole nine yards cure. Even if it's harder and the truth is hard--Veronica wants to know. I like that she and her dad are generally (eventually) truthful with one another. But she needs to tell him about the safety deposit box photos AND Lilly's ticket.
"Veronica's border"--fascinating euphemism.
Images--real and constructed--are a recurring theme. This makes me think a lot about the whole impersonation thing that went on last week. And the "duping". Troy has been duping Veronica since he met her, but she has opened her eyes.
This also reminds me of the male/female interaction in last week's episode. The discussion beween Wallace and Veronica about liking Georgia; and Veronica playing into the Anime (thanks, Matthew) fantasties of the nerd-boys at Gameland.
Great job Spring.
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One other thought, unrelated to the review, just occurred to me: Troy knew who Veronica was from day 1--she'd been pointed out to him-----by Logan. Logan knew who/what Troy was and essentially sicced him on Veronica. Troy chose to pursue Veronica because he was looking for someone who would be susceptible and needy and not examine him too closely. I'm so glad Veronica got significant revenge on him in the end.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 27, 2004 18:20:42 GMT -5
I am so tempted just to quote Sue on your review Spring, but it was too good and deserves more than a ditto.
GREAT stuff....
"Note that Wallace, who isn’t invested in the notion that Troy is a good guy, immediately asks Troy the question that Veronica should have been asking herself: Why would Troy’s parents send him to boarding school, when a good grounding might do the trick?"
Yes! Proud to say I recognized the significance of that question immediately, but I had the advantage of not trusting Troy from the minute I saw him.
"Veronica is trying to “believe lies for her own good.” Just look at her history with Angel and Spike– oh wait. I mean – her history with Duncan. "
LOL!! loved this -and yes, so very apt a comparison...
"Troy says he chooses fun for the last 72 hours, "
yeah, an easy choice for him since he had his getaway already planned...what a creep.
and uh...nice little wordplay with crossing the borders...you are sooo cool Spring! (that was said in Joyce's voice but with less sexual stuff in the tone)
And you're right - the playing field isn't even with parent and child. I hated that Keith had to give up his new happiness with the counselor for Veronica's sake, but I so appreciated that he did.
I hope he gets rewarded too, and that in this instance, the Buffy/Veronica comparisons don't hold true.
Thanks Spring! As always you did us proud.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 27, 2004 22:18:39 GMT -5
UPN: Veronica Mars is struggling, but the numbers tick upward ever so slightly each week. I'm inclined to think UPN will be patient with this offbeat teen mystery.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 28, 2004 8:35:27 GMT -5
I am just filled with amazement at how you see so many themes. (Not to mention how you write about them coherently so quickly.) I especially loved this imagine of the truth spilling forth. Indeed the search for truth is clearly a recurring theme on VM. Well, it's a PI show, that's at least partially to be expected. But, there have been plenty of detectives out there in TV land and it's often less about finding the truth than it is solving the crime. It's a fine line, but Veronica wants more than to just "solve" the crime. In the midst of crime-solving she's also searching for the "truth"-- the truth about who she is, who her mother is, what love is, how her parents love her, maybe even the meaning of life type truth. Thanks for the nice words and feedback, Sue. I just try to plunge ahead without second-guessing myself too much, and let the words fall where they may. I agree with your well-expressed thoughts above about Veronica's search for truth being more than just a "who done it" search. Yes - the teens in particular - they are living in their own fictional worlds, and also to some extent, fictional worlds created for them, with honorable or not so honorable intent, by the adults around them. I agree but would add that underneath it all she is still very vulnerable and inclined, now and then, to close her eyes to unpleasant truths (as in the way she didn't ask the question that Wallace did, of Troy.)
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 28, 2004 8:37:45 GMT -5
I am so tempted just to quote Sue on your review Spring, but it was too good and deserves more than a ditto. GREAT stuff.... "Note that Wallace, who isn’t invested in the notion that Troy is a good guy, immediately asks Troy the question that Veronica should have been asking herself: Why would Troy’s parents send him to boarding school, when a good grounding might do the trick?" Yes! Proud to say I recognized the significance of that question immediately, but I had the advantage of not trusting Troy from the minute I saw him. "Veronica is trying to “believe lies for her own good.” Just look at her history with Angel and Spike– oh wait. I mean – her history with Duncan. " LOL!! loved this -and yes, so very apt a comparison... "Troy says he chooses fun for the last 72 hours, " yeah, an easy choice for him since he had his getaway already planned...what a creep. and uh...nice little wordplay with crossing the borders...you are sooo cool Spring! (that was said in Joyce's voice but with less sexual stuff in the tone) And you're right - the playing field isn't even with parent and child. I hated that Keith had to give up his new happiness with the counselor for Veronica's sake, but I so appreciated that he did. I hope he gets rewarded too, and that in this instance, the Buffy/Veronica comparisons don't hold true. Thanks Spring! As always you did us proud. Thanks, Patti. I did think that "the difference between being an adult and being a child" was being displayed in this episode, and despite Veronica's toughness and "adult act" with her father, we saw that she is clearly the child in the relationship (as of course, she should be.) I hated that he had to give up the girlfriend also. But like you, I was glad he did.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 29, 2004 16:39:48 GMT -5
Spring – great review!
Like Sue, I very much liked your piñata analogy. Because the whole show, not just this episode, hinges on the stuff that needs to come out. This week, Veronica cleared the air a bit with her dad. But there’s still stuff they each are keeping back. Logan, as you point out, is sure good at appearing to not be hiding his emotions (anger and snarkiness and um . . . anger), but he’s not getting at what is really bothering him. More importantly, beyond and behind Troy and Duncan and the wacky Mexican steroid caper, we have the Kanes. There’s a whole bunch of stuff that needs to come spilling out of that family – the truth about Lily’s murder is just the most obvious.
Boy. That line “sometimes the lies we let ourselves believe are for our own good” is just gonna have soooo many applications as the season goes on. I really liked your comments about people making choices, and linking that the implications of this “let ourselves believe” line.
Like Patti, I very much appreciated your comment that Wallace was the one to get right to the question Veronica didn’t want to ask.
Definitely loved the little Buffy fan moment.
When you were talking about the references to deals and agreements, I also flashed on the relationship between Veronica and Weevil. The way she’s introduced as someone who helped get him out of jail. It’s a sign of trust between them, yes, but there’s also an element of deal-making. He owes her for that and so some aspect of any help he provides now is in some way a pay-back.
Again, very thought provoking review, Spring.
Lola
**snicker** Veronica’s border.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 17:20:46 GMT -5
Spring,
Can I sit at your feet and learn how to write reviews?
How many high school kids know Brigadoon? Maybe the Neptune High drama club did that musical this year. Grease I could believe they might know.
True to TV form, no one gets to be happy for long. I really wanted Troy to be a good guy, but it's obvious that Veronica and Duncan still care too much about each other to really move on yet. [/quote]
I want to know where Veronica gets so much money. Buying all those phones can't be cheap. And, why would you jump over a chair instead of running around it? I still say that's a VERY fancy kitchen that Veronica & her dad have. That stainless steel fridge--very expensive
Quotes I really liked: "You make VIN sound so hot." "Change has a way of just walking up and punching me in the face." "No potential benefit to my grade point average." And, my favorite quote: "Love is an investment." Good idea to do some research and chose that investment wisely.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 30, 2004 19:23:20 GMT -5
Thank you! Yes, there was a lot of "deal making" going on in general, and the Weevil/Veronica thing was a definite example. I don't have much of a feeling for Weevil yet, either way. I'm not sure what to think of him. I was pretty put off by the "taping Wallace to the pole" incident that we started out with, so I'm still watching him with uncertain eye.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 30, 2004 19:33:25 GMT -5
FIRST - NICKI! Forgive me, but Vlad gave me moderator rights on this thread, and I don't really know to use them. So I accidentally modified your post above, when I meant to respond to it. I tried to put it back exactly as it was. Not sure I succeeded. Spring, Can I sit at your feet and learn how to write reviews? Certainly! I like this theory of how Logan might know Brigadoon . . . though he's the one whose father is some kind of Hollywood actor or something, right? So he could have exposure to the movie. I agree - though I can't say I want them to get back together. I don't have much of a feel for Duncan yet. She gets her money the same place Buffy did. Where's that, you ask? I don't know, but I sure wish I had known back in my penniless days. All good ones. I noticed that "change" one especially. Veronica is dealing with her first experience with traumatic change that is out of her control, so she is feeling how young people feel in time like that - kind of like she's the only one this has ever happened to, and like it's the end of the world. What she doesn't realize is that change punches everybody in the face, all the time, and the trick is to learn to roll with those punches.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 21:51:50 GMT -5
Well, Duncan may not be bad--just confused and medicated and in pain. Logan--hmm. Yeah, he's pretty gray--knew there were drugs and didn't give a rip. But, at least he's honest with Veronica--he's not over the past and he's not going to pretend that he is. Kids get given steroids by their coaches, probably don't think of them as "drugs" in the same sense as say, heroin. Not to mention that kids are well aware that sports "heroes" use them, so they don't think they're dangerous.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 21:52:58 GMT -5
Lola! Actually, I thought we found out in an earlier episode that they knew Troy. I'm probably imagining it. That's the bad thing about new shows, no transcripts out there I can go check for references. (In my head, I'm hearing some inference that Duncan and Troy knew each other - not sure if I'm imagining that or not.) I think maybe I assumed they knew each other from the way they joked with Troy in the earlier episodes and how comfortable Troy was in their cars, etc. None of those earlier scenes had a very 'new guy in town' vibe to them but I can't go back and rewatch (I haven't taped these episodes) to see if I'd take it the same way the second time around. Yeah, something about Troy's family spending summers there.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 22:01:12 GMT -5
Concerning Troy: I think we haven't probably seen the last of him. Wanna bet he blows back into town, needing Veronica's help? Over somethign serious?Also...Okay, who else thought the "IF I find the steroids, you are taking them backand refunding your dealer's money" sorta lame? We have already seen Veronica break many laws, from impersonating someone to the police, to breaking and entering, to commiting arson in the police station. All pretty serious stuff. But now we are to believe that she is all squeamish about some illegal steroids hitting the street and being bought by folks that want them? Besides, she has to know that would NOT be an acceptable solution to the dealer. He invested that 8,000 and he is going to want more back than 8. Either the drugs or a return on his dollar. Sorry, I jsut felt the breath of hte politically correct police breathing down the neck of the writers there and it didn't feel "right" for the character. She is way too practical for that. Finding hte drugs was simply a by-product of finding hte car for her boyfriend anyway, and I just don't see the Veronica we have seen thus far giving THAT much a hoot about what Troy's buddy did with hte drugs. Vlad ITA on all points, but especially the bolded part
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Post by Nickim on Oct 30, 2004 22:12:28 GMT -5
I have to think that Veronica's dad already knows about Lily's ticket. He was still sheriff when she got. I'm sure Veronica hasn't brought it up, because she doesn't want to upset him.
Sue, I think it was you who mentioned that Veronica's hair was long in the surveillance photos, but Veronica still had long hair when she went to report the rape, so those photos could have been taken after the murder.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 2, 2006 15:01:48 GMT -5
Tijuana! This ought to be good.
Were we supposed to think this guy might be Logan? Ah, there's Logan.
Brigadoon reference. Hee!
Car stolen. Dumbasses.
Wow, that was convenient.
Troy's not into the investigative thing. That should be a major red flag for Veronica.
Wallace got his license subspended last year.
Hey! Back-Up 2.0!
Not so good at predicting change. Yeah, you ought to work on that.
Hee! Nice segue
Keeping secrets in the Keith/Veronica relationship.
A safety deposit box plotline
Sneaky Veronica
So who will and won't Veronica help?
Beacon Corporation
Wow, kind of convenient he had a jogging suit on for this, and not, say, mini skirt and heels, huh?
Yay, Veronica knows Spanish, so she got the whole conversation. Awesome.
All The President's Men. Approriate.
Trust in the Veronica/Keith relationship. Good scene.
Mysteries and truth and trust and things unsaid and relationships.
Veronica's cooking skills. Hee.
Keith's birthday. with a question mark candle. Cute.
So the whole thing was a set up. Hmm. Explains why he wasn't interested in the whole investigative thing.
And Veronica figured it all out.
And Veronica misses her mom's phone call.
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