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Post by Queen E on Nov 30, 2004 22:36:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm thinking they don't know it yet, but bringing back old snotty Casey - now with a heck of a lot of resources at his disposal? Not such a good idea. Another great example of fairly lousy parenting skills among the rich and famous of Neptune. Not a real big surprise that so many of the kids are either messed up or not very nice - or both. Lola Very good point; although his turn around was so quick, I'm wondeirng if he's getting his parents to "drink the Kool-Aid" until he's old enough to be on his own and to get his parents and their freaky deprogrammer off his back. It did seem like less of process than his initial turnaround.
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Post by Karen on Nov 30, 2004 22:56:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I liked that it really was just a bunch of excessively nice people. This show is doing a nice job of keeping me guessing whether folks will turn out to be the good guys or the bad guys. Lola LOL! I was sure that the "cash crop" was going to be maryjane. But nope - pointsettias. They sure were a happy bunch. Especially that smiley teacher. It was kind of freakin' me out how "nice" she was - like it was really just a face she was putting on. I wish I had taped it so I could rewatch the scene in the greenhouse where the leader of the 'cult' was talking about how money was important. I can't help but think that there is a clue there to solving the whole Veronica/heiress question.
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Post by Karen on Nov 30, 2004 22:58:10 GMT -5
If I remember right, it was a flyer about a sale or coupon for a Chinese resteraunt or something like that. **sigh** Man, I sure love Veronica's dad. He is just one great guy. Lola *nods* He really is. I love how he listens to Veronica. They really are on the same page about most things.
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Post by Karen on Nov 30, 2004 23:00:40 GMT -5
He had his car back, and his walk. I think he'd really been 'deprogrammed'. He really loved his grandmother, tho. I can see where he might be 'playing the game' until he sorts things out. Was that flashback that Veronica had with Weevil reciting a poem in front of the class for real? I mean, couples snuggling with each other during class?
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Post by Karen on Nov 30, 2004 23:02:50 GMT -5
no more deprogramming shows for you! LOL!
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Post by Rob on Nov 30, 2004 23:34:08 GMT -5
He had his car back, and his walk. I think he'd really been 'deprogrammed'. Ah, see....I'm not so sure about that. From what I know of it, reprogramming is a pretty lengthy process...can't imagine him being his old self so quickly. I think he's pulling something to stay out of his parents' clutches. On another note, if I were Veronica, I'd much rather view the test results, myself. Doesn't change who her real father is...but it sure might win them a guaranteed hot shower every day. Why am I thinking Lily's murder might be related to Veronica's paternity question, either directly or indirectly? Assuming Keith knows the source of the target pictures (if Veronica can figure it out in a few hours' time, there's no doubt in my mind he could), could that explain his fixation on Jake Kane as the prime suspect? And why would anyone target Veronica for anything at all (Celeste as the jealous wife seems too obvious)? I have the feeling Duncan knows something...possibly without even realizing it. I like the whole case of the week thing; it resembles some of the BtVS monsteriffic eps that do little to further the seasonal arc, but enhance character development. Still...I'm ready for some answers. There are just too many damn questions and loose ends.
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Post by Matthew on Dec 1, 2004 3:22:06 GMT -5
More thoughts: I think Veronica is drinking the kool-aid in a couple of instances: 1) You can see her being seduced by the cult because of the loneliness in her life, and not seeing clearly. 2) Her readiness to believe that she's a Kane. I don't think it's any accident that this is the subplot in this episode, and makes me believe even more that Jake Kane isn't her father. I think you are probably right, but I thought that she came to the conclusion that it mattered not a whit who her father was: Keith Mars was, had been, and always would be her Dad.
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Post by Matthew on Dec 1, 2004 3:25:15 GMT -5
If I remember right, it was a flyer about a sale or coupon for a Chinese resteraunt or something like that. **sigh** Man, I sure love Veronica's dad. He is just one great guy. Lola It included the term "happy family" in the meal title.
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Post by raenstorm on Dec 1, 2004 7:17:44 GMT -5
Awww, I missed posting with everyone!
I'm with Rob on the de-programming issue. There's no proof that he hasn't reverted back to the old Casey but, given Veronica's current social state at Neptune, I don't know that the old Casey would have said hi to her either.
Time will tell, maybe.
Oh, and also, I don't think he needed 'de'programming since I think we were given the hint that it was what happened with his grandmother that probably led to the change in his ways. The "cult" didn't change him, he changed himself. I don't think it'd be so easy to change him back but, if he felt his parents were a threat to his friends, I could see the 'new' Casey deciding to make the effort to change back for the sake of protecting them.
As for the shredding... I get the symbolism there but it was a dumb move. There was more to those results than finding out who her true father was... first, as someone hinted at, it would have confirmed whether or not she needed to continue shuddering at any romantic thoughts she's had (and will continue having) about Duncan. Second, it was a major clue in Lily's death and there's no way she's giving up on that mystery just yet. After all she's done to find the answers, she shreds something that could have changed the entire investigation? Dumb. (I'll be happier with the shredding if on the next new episode Veronica acknowledges that it probably wasn't the best move on her part, symbolism aside.)
My favorite quote of the night... that I can't remember exactly was Keith's comment about Veronica being super hero action figure (did he include ass-kicking in that description??) daughter. It was a cute moment.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 1, 2004 7:21:38 GMT -5
He really loved his grandmother, tho. I can see where he might be 'playing the game' until he sorts things out. Was that flashback that Veronica had with Weevil reciting a poem in front of the class for real? I mean, couples snuggling with each other during class? Yeah, that seemed very . . . 60's. ;D And I also loved the multiple misdirections we got there too. Ahhh, Weevil is a sensitive poet guy! And mean Chase is laughing at him. But wait, Weevil was just scamming the teacher by reading song lyrics. . . . . Or did Weevil really feel the words he was reading, just didn't think he was able to write them himself? ;D Lola
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Post by Lola m on Dec 1, 2004 7:25:46 GMT -5
Ah, see....I'm not so sure about that. From what I know of it, reprogramming is a pretty lengthy process...can't imagine him being his old self so quickly. I think he's pulling something to stay out of his parents' clutches. **nods** **nods a lot, very vigorously** I like the case of the week stuff too. (Although I want to see more regulars more often - Weevil, Duncan, Logan, etc. At least they are making sure that Wallace is always there.) Like you said, it's doesn't always advance the "arc" stuff (although, I bet when we look back at eps, we will find that it was commenting on it, or giving us hints in some way), but really lets us see the characters develop and give us a better picture of Veronica's whole world. Lola
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Post by Sue on Dec 1, 2004 8:57:36 GMT -5
Ah, see....I'm not so sure about that. From what I know of it, reprogramming is a pretty lengthy process...can't imagine him being his old self so quickly. I think he's pulling something to stay out of his parents' clutches. On another note, if I were Veronica, I'd much rather view the test results, myself. Doesn't change who her real father is...but it sure might win them a guaranteed hot shower every day. Why am I thinking Lily's murder might be related to Veronica's paternity question, either directly or indirectly? Assuming Keith knows the source of the target pictures (if Veronica can figure it out in a few hours' time, there's no doubt in my mind he could), could that explain his fixation on Jake Kane as the prime suspect? And why would anyone target Veronica for anything at all (Celeste as the jealous wife seems too obvious)? I have the feeling Duncan knows something...possibly without even realizing it. I like the whole case of the week thing; it resembles some of the BtVS monsteriffic eps that do little to further the seasonal arc, but enhance character development. Still...I'm ready for some answers. There are just too many damn questions and loose ends. Timeline-wise: 1. Lilly and Veronica have conversation in car (flashback) where Lilly tells V to watch out for Mama Kane because she hates and fears anyone who "Duncan might love more than her." 2. Duncan breaks up with V out of the blue with no explanation and acts weird. 3. V asks Lilly to check out #2. 4. Lilly reports back to V and says to drop it (giving strong impression that Duncan has in fact explained himself to her but no way is she passing the explanation on to V.) My conclusion: Celeste told Duncan that Veronica is his half-sister to break them up; Duncan told Lilly. So--why did that lead to Lilly's death? Going with the Celeste did it theory, either: A) Because Lilly was going to blab about V being Jake's daughter and Celeste didn't want Veronica to become acknowledged by Jake and share in the inheritance. (This still doesn't prove anything about V's parentage. Celeste may believe Lianne carried Jake's baby but that doesn't make it true.) B.) Because Lilly was going to blab about V being Jakes' daughter and Celeste knew it was a lie and didn't want Duncan to hate her for making up such a horrid lie. ( If Celeste is the murderer I definitely see it as a "crime of passion"--she and Lilly were fighting and she went nuts) C.) Lilly found out it was a lie and was going to expose Celeste. All of these account for Celeste using the head of Kane security to follow and send threatening pictures of Veronica to Lianne. Because Lianne knows (well, maybe she doesn't!) who the real father is, but either way she can bring down Celeste by exposing the truth or exposing her lie. ---------------------------- Other possibilities: Lilly went to Lianne and Lianne killed her because it wasn't true but would ruin her life and Keith's and V's. Lilly found out it wasn't true and went to Lianne and Lianne killed her because she wants Jake to believe it is true, which is why he was paying her off at the motel in the first episode. ---------------------- Here ends today's theories. And, I still think, like last week, that now that the show has been extended to 22 episodes the info about Lilly's murder has slowed to a trickle.
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Post by Sue on Dec 1, 2004 8:59:25 GMT -5
Awww, I missed posting with everyone! I'm with Rob on the de-programming issue. There's no proof that he hasn't reverted back to the old Casey but, given Veronica's current social state at Neptune, I don't know that the old Casey would have said hi to her either. Time will tell, maybe. Oh, and also, I don't think he needed 'de'programming since I think we were given the hint that it was what happened with his grandmother that probably led to the change in his ways. The "cult" didn't change him, he changed himself. I don't think it'd be so easy to change him back but, if he felt his parents were a threat to his friends, I could see the 'new' Casey deciding to make the effort to change back for the sake of protecting them. As for the shredding... I get the symbolism there but it was a dumb move. There was more to those results than finding out who her true father was... first, as someone hinted at, it would have confirmed whether or not she needed to continue shuddering at any romantic thoughts she's had (and will continue having) about Duncan. Second, it was a major clue in Lily's death and there's no way she's giving up on that mystery just yet. After all she's done to find the answers, she shreds something that could have changed the entire investigation? Dumb. (I'll be happier with the shredding if on the next new episode Veronica acknowledges that it probably wasn't the best move on her part, symbolism aside.) My favorite quote of the night... that I can't remember exactly was Keith's comment about Veronica being super hero action figure (did he include ass-kicking in that description??) daughter. It was a cute moment. Yes on the deprogamming being convenient for the moment. Yes on the shredding being stupid. And, regarding quotes--I keep hearing "Who's your daddy?" from several episodes ago. (Rae--did you make that snow angel in FL? Very strange weather! ;D )
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Post by Karen on Dec 1, 2004 10:21:21 GMT -5
It included the term "happy family" in the meal title. Oh, yeah! My brain automatically went to the Happy Meal place, and missed the connection. We're sure being given a lot of "family" connection clues/misleads.
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Post by Sara on Dec 1, 2004 10:51:16 GMT -5
It does mean things though. It means a lot to how she's going to react to Duncan and her feelings about him if she still has them. It could be a huge clue to the murder of Lily...I think it was not brave of her to shred it. But, braver yet would be telling her dad what the creepy guy said and asking him the truth. Yeah, I had a real problem with the idea that Veronica shredded the test results. She's been presented all along as someone to whom the truth is important, particularly when it comes to her friend's death. I just don't see the character as I understand her being willfully blind to something so important not only to herself but as the potential answer to so many of her questions regarding Duncan's sudden cold shoulder and Lily's death.
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