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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 4, 2004 14:03:01 GMT -5
Spring I enjoyed your review! Your pick up on the 'water' theme' was great - I hadn't (natch) gotten that, but it definitely fits doesn't it? In this case, the koolade was harmless...even refreshing and healthy, like water. Thanks, Patti. The Collective did seem to be harmless - though I found the kiss between Josh & Holly kind of disturbing. But then, people aren't perfect, so this group isn't going to be either. They didn't have any of the usual big red flags that tell you a group is bogus, though (e.g., that focus on fundraising that is so obviously more important the supposed stated mission to spread God's Word, or whatever it may be.) Yes - I can't believe Veronica can truly just "put this out of her mind" and go on. Though one good thing about shredding the test results was that it represented a rejection of using that "conceived by deception" method of finding the truth. Veronica was very wrong to trick her father into giving his blood and try to sneak her way to an answer. So she was right in rejecting that road to the truth. But if she is further rejecting the idea of finding out the truth, ever, period - well, that isn't going to work.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 4, 2004 14:08:24 GMT -5
Spring, once again you stun me with your ability to find the metaphor, dig beneath the surface, pull the ideas together. Like Veronica, you are helping us to figure out the angles, sit in the chair, make some shrewd guesses and decisions. Like Patti, I missed so many of the water references. Or rather, not so much missed them as missed their importance – how many of them there were. The water bed, the shower, the water guy, etc. etc. Up to and including the girl name – Rain. Wow!! I saw all those things, but I didn’t see them! Thanks, Lola. Now that I've spent over a year immersed in trying to understand the complexities of the Jossverse, that kind of thing (the repeated water references, and their relevance to the theme) tends to just pop out at me. Though I'm sure I miss stuff. Yes - good point. Rejecting the test results wasn't such a bad idea, but turning away from the truth is. Somehow she's got to find the courage to talk to her dad about this. Duncan is too young and in the same position she is, and Wallace, though he could be a kind listening ear, can't really help her either. Her Mom is gone. Her dad isn't perfect but he keeps proving time and time again that he loves her and that he is steadfast in that love. I hope she turns to him for the truth, without trying anymore "tricks" as she did with the bloodtest.
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Wasnt sure where to put this
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Post by Wasnt sure where to put this on Dec 7, 2004 21:40:07 GMT -5
What up guys! I have been trying to find some Veronica Mars fans that can lead me to soundtrack info. I found this cool new website java.com that has EVERYTHING on it. I need to find out the names/artist of some of the songs from the show so I can download them to my phone...can any of you help me?
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 7, 2004 23:35:18 GMT -5
What up guys! I have been trying to find some Veronica Mars fans that can lead me to soundtrack info. I found this cool new website java.com that has EVERYTHING on it. I need to find out the names/artist of some of the songs from the show so I can download them to my phone...can any of you help me? Hello! The only info I've ever seen about the music on VM is at the "Temple of Veronica Mars" site: free.hostdepartment.com/v/veronicamars/index.htmlClick on the link that says "Music." There's not a whole lot there, but its a start. Thanks for stopping by, and stop by again for ep discussion if you are so inclined!
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Post by Nickim on Dec 8, 2004 4:05:57 GMT -5
Re-programmed. (As opposed to "de") $80,000,000 will do that to you--even without the scary guy in black. Somehow I don't think he's going to be very nice to his parents. They would probably have been better off with nice-but communal-son rather than it's-all-my-money son. Very good point, Sue. Just like Veronica is better off with cold showers in a crappy apartment with Keith, than with a chunk of the Kane billions?
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Post by Nickim on Dec 8, 2004 4:14:22 GMT -5
How about that "friendly welcoming kiss," between Josh and Holly, right in front of Veronica. I'm still not sure what to make of that. Well, Holly said she's 32 and Josh looked about that age, so there's nothing wrong with them being a couple. There was no evidence to back up what the exgirlfriend said that Holly and Casey were having sex.
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Post by Nickim on Dec 8, 2004 4:23:23 GMT -5
Thanks, Patti. The Collective did seem to be harmless - though I found the kiss between Josh & Holly kind of disturbing. But then, people aren't perfect, so this group isn't going to be either. They didn't have any of the usual big red flags that tell you a group is bogus, though (e.g., that focus on fundraising that is so obviously more important the supposed stated mission to spread God's Word, or whatever it may be.) Yes - I can't believe Veronica can truly just "put this out of her mind" and go on. Though one good thing about shredding the test results was that it represented a rejection of using that "conceived by deception" method of finding the truth. Veronica was very wrong to trick her father into giving his blood and try to sneak her way to an answer. So she was right in rejecting that road to the truth. But if she is further rejecting the idea of finding out the truth, ever, period - well, that isn't going to work. Why? They're both adults, and as members of the same community, it's seems normal that they might hook up. I like your use of the term "collective." I think it fits the Moon group much better than "cult." As far as Casey's programming or deprogramming, I'd say the Moon group days were just to drive his parents insane, not a real change. He told Veronica she wasn't "faking the being nice." I think that's a major clue that he was faking.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 8, 2004 9:25:56 GMT -5
Why? They're both adults, and as members of the same community, it's seems normal that they might hook up. I like your use of the term "collective." I think it fits the Moon group much better than "cult." As far as Casey's programming or deprogramming, I'd say the Moon group days were just to drive his parents insane, not a real change. He told Veronica she wasn't "faking the being nice." I think that's a major clue that he was faking. Why this kiss was a bit disturbing to me - two reasons: It wasn't clear to me they were a couple, and it was a bit much for right in front of your 16 year old student. Good theory on Casey's quick transformation, though I don't think it was a very conscious thing on his part.
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Post by Nickim on Dec 8, 2004 9:54:28 GMT -5
Why this kiss was a bit disturbing to me - two reasons: It wasn't clear to me they were a couple, and it was a bit much for right in front of your 16 year old student. Good theory on Casey's quick transformation, though I don't think it was a very conscious thing on his part. What, teachers don't get a personal life? I think it was suppposed to be obvious that Casey's ex was wrong and Veronica was being paranoid about the "sharing spouses." About Casey: I think it was a very conscious. He knew for a year he was going to inherit $80million. What's one Porsch next to that? I'm sure he knew his parents only cared about the money, so what better way to get back at them, than play with their heads that he might give away that money? I do think he really appreciated Veronica being there at his grandmother's funeral. I didn't see any of the other Neptune High kids there, and even a cold-hearted snake needs a little support at his grandma's funeral. I just think he let himself be kidnapped without too much protest.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 8, 2004 10:02:40 GMT -5
What, teachers don't get a personal life? I think it was suppposed to be obvious that Casey's ex was wrong and Veronica was being paranoid about the "sharing spouses." Yeah. That's what I meant. Teachers don't get a personal life. No - I meant that I think a teacher should be more discreet in front of her young student who is meeting her and her boyfriend(?) for the first time. I'd go with a "Veronica, this is my boyfriend Josh," not give him an intimate kiss and hope she figures it out. You asked me why I found it a bit disturbing - that is why: She never makes it clear he's her boyfriend, and it's in front of her young student. I understand that not everyone would find it disturbing, and I even qualified it with "a bit." But I found it a bit disturbing. I lean toward the "subconscious" motivation when I look at his overall behavior. Mostly, that's to do with his consistent niceness, even when he could have gotten away with much less. I do love the theory, though.
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Post by Nickim on Dec 8, 2004 14:10:33 GMT -5
Yeah. That's what I meant. Teachers don't get a personal life. No - I meant that I think a teacher should be more discreet in front of her young student who is meeting her and her boyfriend(?) for the first time. I'd go with a "Veronica, this is my boyfriend Josh," not give him an intimate kiss and hope she figures it out. You asked me why I found it a bit disturbing - that is why: She never makes it clear he's her boyfriend, and it's in front of her young student. I understand that not everyone would find it disturbing, and I even qualified it with "a bit." But I found it a bit disturbing. Okay, that makes perfect sense. I'd say Casey had everyone around him, including his parents, "drinking the Kool-Aid." The whole episode was about no one & nothing being what it seemed, including Casey. He had to pretend to go all the way into the Moon group for his parents to believe it. So, he pulled the ultimate "Cult Leader" betrayal--everyone "swallowed" the Kool-Aid (his changing), while he just poured his glass out on the ground.
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Post by Sue on Dec 13, 2004 10:42:24 GMT -5
What, teachers don't get a personal life? I think it was suppposed to be obvious that Casey's ex was wrong and Veronica was being paranoid about the "sharing spouses." About Casey: I think it was a very conscious. He knew for a year he was going to inherit $80million. What's one Porsch next to that? I'm sure he knew his parents only cared about the money, so what better way to get back at them, than play with their heads that he might give away that money? I do think he really appreciated Veronica being there at his grandmother's funeral. I didn't see any of the other Neptune High kids there, and even a cold-hearted snake needs a little support at his grandma's funeral. I just think he let himself be kidnapped without too much protest. and As far as Casey's programming or deprogramming, I'd say the Moon group days were just to drive his parents insane, not a real change. He told Veronica she wasn't "faking the being nice." I think that's a major clue that he was faking. and Okay, that makes perfect sense. I'd say Casey had everyone around him, including his parents, "drinking the Kool-Aid." The whole episode was about no one & nothing being what it seemed, including Casey. He had to pretend to go all the way into the Moon group for his parents to believe it. So, he pulled the ultimate "Cult Leader" betrayal--everyone "swallowed" the Kool-Aid (his changing), while he just poured his glass out on the ground. Nicki, I'd say that's not a bad theory. It certainly hadn't occurred to me because I was looking at the final change-- is he faking now (back at Neptune) just until he can get control of the money and away from his parents rather than considering whether the commune was a fake-out. I think we all want to assume it's one or the other because he changed his tune so drastically and so quickly. In some ways thinking he was faking the commune behavior certainly makes as much sense as the other, and you've actually pointed to some possible evidence in his remarks to Veronica. Excellent thinking "outside of the box." 80 million. That kid's life is only going to get more screwed up. He'll never trust anybody. Just always assume "they" are after the money. However, given the way WM treats it's guest-characters I doubt we'll ever see Casey again to find out. Which is just way too bad. I think I've complained several times about how characters pop in and then never show again. And I know that's all because of Buffy. Most shows don't revisit guest characters.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 3, 2006 21:25:15 GMT -5
Thoughts running through Veronica's head. What we've all been thinking
First week in February. Feb 4th.
Would a restaurant actually show some one their receipts upon request
Clarence Weidman
Veronica plans to get even. Something Meg advised her not to do.
A waterbed
What would I have given for the water bed to start leaking when she pulled up the masking tape.
Cults. Hence the title? Shudder.
Highlighting the Keith/Veronica relationship in an episode where Veronica is questioning her parentage.
Tricking Keith into giving a blood sample. Nicely done.
You've been sexually active, I haven't. OOOH!!
So now Veronica is treating Duncan the way he was treating her the year before.
Joined a cult but still goes to school.
Wow, other people in the bathroom when Veronica is conducting her interrogation.
Hot water problem. Eh?
Oooh, No partner, that sucks.
Stay out of the barn.
Love Veronica's voice-overs during these cult scenes.
Damn, Kristin Bell is short.
Secret ingredient's love.
milking the cow. BWAH.
Cash crop. Ah ha.
So Veronica is definitely a junior.
So there's just a horse in the barn?
The cash crop is poinsettias.
Isn't there something that can be made from poinsettias?
You just want me to be happy. Strange.
Oooops!!!
It seemed so harmless.
It's like listening to the Brady Brunch with a raggae soundtrack.
Deprogamming. CREEPY!!!!!
Episode title!!!
Listed as missing?!!??
We answer to our clients. Interesting. Business model.
She's a lot better off where she is. About family.
Veronica and Keith reconciling.
So was he "deprogrammed" or not? And is it really possible to "deprogram" some one who hasn't been programmed?
Damn, that's one cool looking shredder.
About inheritance issues and who your family is.
So, was Enrico Colantoni really injured and they couldn't cover it up?
So this is the episode that everyone hated? I didn't think it was that bad.
Kind of interesting portrayal of the collective. Interesting commentary on our society, I mean Neptune, when a behavior/personality change for the better, one could argue, raises warning flags with pretty much everyone.
And about Ms Mills and the collective leader guy making out like that, when Veronica first gets to the commune, that only made me uncomfortable as much as everything else about this group made me uncomfortable. Ms. Mills told Veronica to call her by her first name, indicating that at the commune, they weren't on a teacher/student basis. The group clearly has different concepts of appropriate displays of affection. Based on how they interacted with Veronica the rest of the time, I'm guessing if she had spoken up about it making her uncomfortable, they probably would have backed off and apologized.
I like the ambiguity about whether Casey had been deprogrammed or reprogrammed or not towards the end.
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