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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 6:23:04 GMT -5
Of course, having rewatched the pertinent season 1 eps and this premiere, I'm actually thinking that Veronica is going to end up with Weevil. I would agree here but I don't think that's the way they are going. I think we notice it because in this episode they are definitely playing DOWN the chemistry being JD and KB. Plus, IMO, KB and TD have very little to no chemistry. Therefore, the chemisty between KB and FC stands out clearly on the screen. When I *listen* to their exchanges, I get no 'shippy vibes from them but, as soon as I see the two actors interact, that's where I get the Veronica/Weevil undertone. <snip> i agree on all counts. besides, if i went by last year's weevil-y eps, i would think they were going to pair weevil with logan.
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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 6:29:39 GMT -5
Veronica looks so unhappy, doesn't she? Very unhappy a lot of the time. And oddly . . . clingy with Duncan. Could just mean she really does love him or could mean she's feeling . . . insecure? yeah, veronica-with-duncan kept reminding me of connor-with-cordelia. (and it's not just because both pairings make/made me feel queasy when i look/ed at them. ) she seems like she's either feeling insecure about her relationship or like she's trying so hard to prove it to everybody else. either way i'd say "normal is the watchword" is a very appropriate summary for this episode - normal is definitely what she's attempting to achieve here, though it's not surprisingly already falling apart on her. i can't begin to imagine what it's like to know you *didn't* die because someone else had a vendetta against you (and be left wondering if the other people *did* die for the same reason? or because someone had one against your ex?).
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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 6:47:46 GMT -5
Good news: Logan still loves Veronica. We don't think Logan did the murder. Logan likes older women (Pixiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii....) Or is that thing just too entirely Oedipal for words. Rob Thomas is a fiendish fiend who likes playing with our emotions and minds. ha ha. the show does go out of its way, doesn't it, to strongly imply that logan once again Is Not Over Veronica? ha ha. hey, i think it makes him look good. amen! i love how keith decided to exploit the system (i.e., the world of rubberneckers) to be able to pay his hospital bill (i guess they don't have insurance? ) and veronica's education. (plus the nod to what lianne did was great for us return viewers.) it seemed such a keith solution. i agree. it seemed like it was more to put out some facts - e.g., wallace and veronica are still best friends; veronica is trying to get out of the PI biz; veronica is now seen (perhaps accurately) as an 09-er; meg hates & blames veronica for . . . something (is it just the break-up? or are we only seeing veronica's opinion of why meg is acting that way, not meg's real reason?) - than for anything about the MOTW itself. good questions. but was the trap set after she declined? or did whomever set it maybe not know about the limo at all? was logan really supposed to go on the trip, or was he just being a jerk to VD? amen again. i find both characters irritating so far. though as a new englander, i thought veronica's johnny damon line was especially funny. ;D
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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 6:52:41 GMT -5
now that this episode has aired, i thought i'd stick this here. it's the clipped paragraph from the kristen bell article i posted yesterday.
"As a further sign of corporate support, Julie Chen, the "Early Show" host who is married to Leslie Moonves, the top executive at both CBS and UPN, appears in tonight's season premiere as herself. Ms. Chen interviews Keith Mars, who is promoting a book he wrote about Lilly's murder, which he and Veronica solved in the first season's finale."
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 7:14:56 GMT -5
Very unhappy a lot of the time. And oddly . . . clingy with Duncan. Could just mean she really does love him or could mean she's feeling . . . insecure? yeah, veronica-with-duncan kept reminding me of connor-with-cordelia. (and it's not just because both pairings make/made me feel queasy when i look/ed at them. ) she seems like she's either feeling insecure about her relationship or like she's trying so hard to prove it to everybody else. either way i'd say "normal is the watchword" is a very appropriate summary for this episode - normal is definitely what she's attempting to achieve here, though it's not surprisingly already falling apart on her. i can't begin to imagine what it's like to know you *didn't* die because someone else had a vendetta against you (and be left wondering if the other people *did* die for the same reason? or because someone had one against your ex?). No, that would be Logan & Mrs. Casablancas....
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Post by Onjel on Sept 29, 2005 8:15:18 GMT -5
Ok, Duncan is her boyfriend? Interesting. What's up with that? Logan and Charisma? To use a phrase I have heard somewhere before, whoa. ;D Veronica looks so unhappy, doesn't she? Very unhappy a lot of the time. And oddly . . . clingy with Duncan. Could just mean she really does love him or could mean she's feeling . . . insecure? Insecure, is my take. With Duncan to prove something to everyone.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 8:26:33 GMT -5
Hee, hee - are you ready? Here are my impressions (warning it's long and at times ranty)
Oh um and of course Logan Lurves older women. ;D
I liked the show but I must admit to a lot of disappointment. Too rushed and I'm sorry while the flashbacks worked with Lilly they didn't work for the whole who's Veronica's boyfriend at this point in the show for me.
The MOTW was lame. I do think this was all just a set up for the Bus mystery which I think is the big mystery with who killed Felix as the rape arc of last year for Logan. But hey - couldn't they have made it a little better? Lame.
TD and KB have absolutely no chemistry. I agree that she needs to resolve her long long love feelings and put me in the camp that although Logan loves Veronica, she doesn't love him. She didn't say it back and she never acted like she was in love with him in the very few flashbacks we saw.
Veronica was definitely all pod Veronica last night. She was trying to be preseason Veronica and I'm sorry -Meg was wonderful last night. She was Season 1 Veronica and Veronica was Meg. Completely and totally.
I agree Veronica certainly didn't look very happy most of the ep.
I've recovered from all the gagging I did during the VD. I'm glad Logan is getting some hot loving and Charisma looked great but sigh my heart broke for Logan. I kind of agree with him at the breakup - all this, plus a stabbing and she's breaking up with him? I see her point of view too - burning pools isn't exactly good behavior and Dick was never one of her faves.
May I say how much I love Dick? Hee, hee - I loved all his greetings to Veronica last night. He was priceless.
I'm upset that they seem to be setting up Logan again as the red herring bad guy. His I'm gonna miss you can be interpreted several ways but one of them is certainly that he knew the bus was going to crash. I've already read this theory all over the place and I for one am tired of Logan as the bad boy. And notice how all the 09ers except Meg who was asked got off the bus before the crash.
The Dick and Beaver come out to play line - I bet RT has been waiting since he named them to use this line.
Oh and it looks like shirtless Logan next week! Wheee! Though - as Hurely would say- Dude - you shave your pits? As I noticed in the cover my excitement with a pillow pool scene at the Casablancase.
I loved Keith - the nipples line was hysterical. Hee, hee.
I enjoyed seeing Wallace. Not sure what I feel about Weevil right now.
So corruption in a small town? Loved the title of Keith's book - Big Murder, Small Town.
Logan looked so lost and scared leaving the courthouse. I loved how Veronica took his hand in the limo. And I loved Logan's sincere I love you.
I've had the Who is at the door debate since I found out it was Logan. I've heard it interpreted all kinds of ways. May I just say it was Rob Thomas' attempt to put everyone at the door - hey he even threw in Leo. Hedging his bets and playing the lameass triangle game. I didn't like it but overall a good ep. Didn't grab me like last season's premier but I still love the characters.
All you VD lovers - I grant you your victory here. I do hope she ends up with Logan in the long run as I adore bad boy Logan and her Duncan kisses were so lacking in hotness as to be boring. Plus musical montage of Duncan staring at Veronica - yawn.
Okay I think I'm done. I liked it but I'm unhappy with the continual trashing of Logan. He redeemed himself last year - he has all this dumped on him and now he gets to play jackass again? I'm disappointed. So many better ways to have gone. While I agree the VD needs closure, I'm just not going to enjoy watching it.
Note to self: Rememeber shirtless Logan, shirtless Logan. ;D
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Post by Sue on Sept 29, 2005 8:40:02 GMT -5
Ok, Duncan is her boyfriend? Interesting. What's up with that? Logan and Charisma? To use a phrase I have heard somewhere before, whoa. ;D Veronica looks so unhappy, doesn't she? Very unhappy a lot of the time. And oddly . . . clingy with Duncan. Could just mean she really does love him or could mean she's feeling . . . insecure? Carolyn also noted the clinginess.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 9:09:03 GMT -5
Hee, hee - are you ready? Here are my impressions (warning it's long and at times ranty) Okay I think I'm done. I liked it but I'm unhappy with the continual trashing of Logan. He redeemed himself last year - he has all this dumped on him and now he gets to play jackass again? I'm disappointed. So many better ways to have gone. While I agree the VD needs closure, I'm just not going to enjoy watching it. Note to self: Rememeber shirtless Logan, shirtless Logan. ;D I don't know about "trashing", and I'm even less certain Logan "redeemed" himself. What he showed was that he had chemistry with Veronica. The boy has potential, and LoVe has passion that VD doesn't. I'm having this weird sense of deja vu all over again. While Logan isn't Spike, the two characters are similar in some ways. I have no qualms about Logan ending up with Veronica. I'd like him to show more respect and tolerance though. Growing up on the side of the non-09-ers makes me predisposed to disliking them, I guess. Could work on my own tolerance, always. Time will tell, I guess.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 9:12:19 GMT -5
Hee, hee - are you ready? Here are my impressions (warning it's long and at times ranty) Okay I think I'm done. I liked it but I'm unhappy with the continual trashing of Logan. He redeemed himself last year - he has all this dumped on him and now he gets to play jackass again? I'm disappointed. So many better ways to have gone. While I agree the VD needs closure, I'm just not going to enjoy watching it. Note to self: Rememeber shirtless Logan, shirtless Logan. ;D I don't know about "trashing", and I'm even less certain Logan "redeemed" himself. What he showed was that he had chemistry with Veronica. The boy has potential, and LoVe has passion that VD doesn't. I'm having this weird sense of deja vu all over again. While Logan isn't Spike, the two characters are similar in some ways. I have no qualms about Logan ending up with Veronica. I'd like him to show more respect and tolerance though. Growing up on the side of the non-09-ers makes me predisposed to disliking them, I guess. Could work on my own tolerance, always. Time will tell, I guess. Well - I believe that Logan's character was taken on a path of redemption last year. And I think finding out your father is a murderer and being framed for a stabbing he didn't do is having things dumped on him.
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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 9:13:17 GMT -5
TD and KB have absolutely no chemistry. I agree that she needs to resolve her long long love feelings and put me in the camp that although Logan loves Veronica, she doesn't love him. She didn't say it back and she never acted like she was in love with him in the very few flashbacks we saw. yeah - what's up with that? agreed. me, too. i mean, what did she really expect from him? yeah, although the show never explicitly stated that's what they did. maybe they were burning some other thing which will come out later this season ;D i honestly hadn't considered this interpretation at all till i read your post. i saw the scene as - first time logan actually talks to veronica since keith's ejection; logan being serious under the snark. indeed. was meg asked, by the way? i don't remember that (doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course!). i got the impression throughout this episode that duncan's dumping ejected her from the 09ers, much like had happened to veronica a couple years before. did anyone else see it this way? are there any on here? kinda like spike at the beginning of angel's s5. where's rae? did matthew stop watching? i missed his play-by-play commentary last night
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 9:28:16 GMT -5
Hi Artemis. Yes, the lack of response is really disappointing.
I imagine Matthew must have watched Lost last night since there is no stream of consciousness posting.
I haven't been to LJ yet so I don't know where Rae is. Hopefully this will pick up.
Meg was asked to go on the limo but when she saw Veronica with Duncan she said no. I imagine class division is a big theme this year - kind of because they rubbed our faces in it. ;D
I know I sound less cheerleader today but I was really, really disapointed. I expected far more from Rob. And not just in the Logan/Veronica way. I just feel like Duncan's past is whitewashed (hello sleeping with a girl you thought was your sister, no matter how trashed, leaving her alone in the morning, breaking up with her without a word and weird violent epiosdes last year) all swept away.
And Logan is suddenly - hey look it's the jackass again. Been there, done that so not interested in seeing it again.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 9:33:47 GMT -5
I don't know about "trashing", and I'm even less certain Logan "redeemed" himself. What he showed was that he had chemistry with Veronica. The boy has potential, and LoVe has passion that VD doesn't. I'm having this weird sense of deja vu all over again. While Logan isn't Spike, the two characters are similar in some ways. I have no qualms about Logan ending up with Veronica. I'd like him to show more respect and tolerance though. Growing up on the side of the non-09-ers makes me predisposed to disliking them, I guess. Could work on my own tolerance, always. Time will tell, I guess. Well - I believe that Logan's character was taken on a path of redemption last year. And I think finding out your father is a murderer and being framed for a stabbing he didn't do is having things dumped on him. Oh, I agree. No question Logan's had a world of stuff dumped on him. Don't forget losing his mother, getting thrashed within an inch of his life, and not only having his girlfriend murdered but learning she was cheating on him with his father. All of these make me sympathetic to the character. They don't make me like him. I hope he slays his demons or at least encapsulates them way back in his amygdala. After the suffering is done, you have to make a choice how you'll live the rest of your life.
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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 9:48:35 GMT -5
and not only having his girlfriend murdered but learning she was cheating on him with his father. i think they had already broken up (not that this makes it any less gross to the viewers or disturbing to logan). well - it seems the suffering's not done, though. after he gets not-really-cleared of a second murder,his girlfriend promptly dumps him, and then takes up with his best friend, whom he knows slept with her when thinking she was his sister. (and i'm sorry, but to quote rae, there's no drug that would make me sleep with a sibling. that excuse makes no sense to me at all.) that's gotta hurt. really, i see it as him having no positive role models (past or present) and no one he can trust. he still (same as last year) seems to hang out with dick because dick lets him act however without pressing him to open up or anything, not because he actually trusts him or confides in him. (i still haven't figured out why cassidy hangs out with them, though.) and i'm betting that he was perceptive enough to figure out veronica wasn't really in love with him. i think it's really, really hard to get over any difficulty without having anyone else to depend on.
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Post by zimshan on Sept 29, 2005 9:55:45 GMT -5
Hey guys! Hope you all have a great summer hiatus, one which is...no longer here!
I think I may have had a heart attack watching this last night. At very least, the whiplash in my back hurts SO bad. They twist and they turned and wow.
I went into this ep. completely in the dark. I knew nothing that was happening, saw no promos, trailers, or ep description, so for me, this was shocking to say the least!
Everything in Neptune has changed. And I'm not very good with change. Keith is an author now, and famous? Weird. Veronica not working at Mars Inv.? Sad. Dick, Beaver, and new girl in the credit? Wha? The Door twist, which I had totally predicted was going to lead to something bad, not good and shippy like most people thought, opened up a whole new can of worms. Kinda loved how RT played around with who Veronica was with, right up until the last quarter. I'm glad he didn't do a straight up, look she's with Dun now.
I kind of loved Duncan in this episode. And yes, Veronica did seem to be with him for a sense of normalcy and security, but can you blame her? The whole ep was her trying to stick into normalcy, and I just loved it. Come on, the last 15 minutes of the finale had to have had psychological effects on her. I completely understand all her actions in this premiere and I think RT just hit them right on the head.
I still haven't made up my mind about Logan. He doesn't seem to have reverted to full jackass though. He may be trying to, but he's just broken. That's the sense I got all throughout the scenes.
And if we thought last year was serious, guess again. Wow...
Love the new arc they are employing. I can see now what the cast was saying, it's much bigger than last year. Class warfare was one of the best themes they used last year, and kicking it up to center levels is just such a great idea. Plus the potential for an increase level of noirish tones can only be good.
But, OMGWTF?!?!?! THE BUS! RT FREAKIN KILLED EVERYONE!!! HOLY CRAP!
And LILLY APPEARANCE! How much do I love that Lilly saved her! And, omg, Duncan totally thought for the first couple seconds that Veronica was on that bus. Poor guy.
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