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Post by artemis on Sept 29, 2005 9:58:16 GMT -5
Hi Artemis. Yes, the lack of response is really disappointing. yeah he didn't post there, either. maybe he saved the tapes to watch after the fest. ;D oh, right - i sort of remember now. i still wonder what's really been going on with M/V/D. it seems like a simple breakup is too, well, simple to explain all the tension and drama. did meg feel the same as others, that veronica had sold herself out? hee! indeed. me, too. but then, i've never liked the character. i wonder what his mother's being charged with. or is she just at the other house to be with his father? i thought he said "parents' trial", but again i might be wrong . i wonder how old CC's character is supposed to be. 25? 30?
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Post by Queen E on Sept 29, 2005 10:01:18 GMT -5
Well - I believe that Logan's character was taken on a path of redemption last year. And I think finding out your father is a murderer and being framed for a stabbing he didn't do is having things dumped on him. Oh, I agree. No question Logan's had a world of stuff dumped on him. Don't forget losing his mother, getting thrashed within an inch of his life, and not only having his girlfriend murdered but learning she was cheating on him with his father. All of these make me sympathetic to the character. They don't make me like him. I hope he slays his demons or at least encapsulates them way back in his amygdala. After the suffering is done, you have to make a choice how you'll live the rest of your life. I'm with you on this one; I was concerned how they were going to play this, because I was spoiled, etc. I guess, although I think Logan went a long way to character development last year...he's still got a long way to go, and is so angry, and so full of loss. But...I think it's healthier for Veronica, at this point, not to be with him; he needs SO much, and Veronica's got her own damage to heal, and I have very firm views about the idea of either part "rescuing" the other from themselves. I mean, after what happened with Aaron, when Logan freaked out, Veronica would have every right to wig...
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 10:09:29 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. No question Logan's had a world of stuff dumped on him. Don't forget losing his mother, getting thrashed within an inch of his life, and not only having his girlfriend murdered but learning she was cheating on him with his father. All of these make me sympathetic to the character. They don't make me like him. I hope he slays his demons or at least encapsulates them way back in his amygdala. After the suffering is done, you have to make a choice how you'll live the rest of your life. I'm with you on this one; I was concerned how they were going to play this, because I was spoiled, etc. I guess, although I think Logan went a long way to character development last year...he's still got a long way to go, and is so angry, and so full of loss. But...I think it's healthier for Veronica, at this point, not to be with him; he needs SO much, and Veronica's got her own damage to heal, and I have very firm views about the idea of either part "rescuing" the other from themselves. I mean, after what happened with Aaron, when Logan freaked out, Veronica would have every right to wig... I completely get what you and Sharky are posting here. I just feel that they are taking Logan's character down a path that we have already gone. Hey - I don't mind being Logan's sole cheerleader over here in the corner. ;D He really has no one to help him now. Dick and an affair with a slutty trophy wife (sorry CC I am talking about your character not you) is not going to help him cope with all the trauma he is going through.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 10:17:06 GMT -5
I'm with you on this one; I was concerned how they were going to play this, because I was spoiled, etc. I guess, although I think Logan went a long way to character development last year...he's still got a long way to go, and is so angry, and so full of loss. But...I think it's healthier for Veronica, at this point, not to be with him; he needs SO much, and Veronica's got her own damage to heal, and I have very firm views about the idea of either part "rescuing" the other from themselves. I mean, after what happened with Aaron, when Logan freaked out, Veronica would have every right to wig... I completely get what you and Sharky are posting here. I just feel that they are taking Logan's character down a path that we have already gone. Hey - I don't mind being Logan's sole cheerleader over here in the corner. ;D He really has no one to help him now. Dick and an affair with a slutty trophy wife (sorry CC I am talking about your character not you) is not going to help him cope with all the trauma he is going through. We'll see. Here's hoping we have a lot of episodes for Logan to grow. JD does the character so well that it may be the writers just aren't interested in letting go of the darker side of his nature yet. Are we really ready for a Logan whose spirit guide is happy bouncy Spike of "Life of the Party"? Sorry if you feel like we're all against you. I don't see it that way. Help me out with specifics if you'd like as to what Logan has done to show repentance; my memory isn't what it used to be and it wasn't good to begin with.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 10:25:09 GMT -5
I completely get what you and Sharky are posting here. I just feel that they are taking Logan's character down a path that we have already gone. Hey - I don't mind being Logan's sole cheerleader over here in the corner. ;D He really has no one to help him now. Dick and an affair with a slutty trophy wife (sorry CC I am talking about your character not you) is not going to help him cope with all the trauma he is going through. We'll see. Here's hoping we have a lot of episodes for Logan to grow. JD does the character so well that it may be the writers just aren't interested in letting go of the darker side of his nature yet. Are we really ready for a Logan who's spirit guide is happy bouncy Spike of "Life of the Party"? Sorry if you feel like we're all against you. I don't see it that way. Help me out with specifics if you'd like as to what Logan has done to show repentance; my memory isn't what it used to be and it wasn't good to begin with. Oh I don't feel you're against me. I'm just saying I am on Logan's side here. I felt Veronica was very much a podVeronica last night. She showed very little emotion and I honestly feel cheated. I didn't get the Veronica of season 1. Granted I get that's what they are trying to show us. She wants Normal and this is her idea of normal. (color me bored) I guess Normal = Stalker Duncan. I'm not asking to change Logan to a perky version of me for example. I'm just saying that his character was changing at the end of the season. He told Dick to evaporate if he didn't like his girlfriend. He told Veronica he was sorry about bringing the drug to the party. Suddenly he's back to hey - let's burn down the pool? I don't buy it and I'm not interested in that for his character. I understand that long-term they probably have things planned long-term but RT pissed off huge portions of his fan base last night. Not really the best of plans for a show struggling for ratings. I'm not saying give Logan a free pass but honestly KB showed so little emotion in her scenes with Logan (as compared to last season) and she was so all over Duncan that at times I was wondering what show I was watching. I knew all this was coming mind you as I was spoiled for this episode but I was hoping to see things played that showed more than what I was reading and sadly I think it played worse than we were expecting. We as in those who like Logan and his character. As I said - there was a lot I liked. I still love the show, I still love the characters. I'm just disappointed at the way they have kind of whitewashed Duncan's past (violent rages, sleeping with I thought that was my sister and leaving her alone the next day, breaking up with her without an explanation) and are painting Logan with the huge - Look -look it's the Bad Boy. He's so bad. He burns down pools. He sleeps with trophy wives. Did everyone see the Bad Boy? But I wasn't feeling picked on. I am happy being the lone voice here if that's what I am. I know this opinion is reflected elsewhere so it's okay if I'm the only one supporting Logan here. I was basically just saying I understand both you and Erin's viewpoint.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 10:31:58 GMT -5
As I said - there was a lot I liked. I still love the show, I still love the characters. I'm just disappointed at the way they have kind of whitewashed Duncan's past (violent rages, sleeping with I thought that was my sister and leaving her alone the next day, breaking up with her without an explanation) and are painting Logan with the huge - Look -look it's the Bad Boy. He's so bad. He burns down pools. He sleeps with trophy wives. Did everyone see the Bad Boy? But I wasn't feeling picked on. I am happy being the lone voice here if that's what I am. I know this opinion is reflected elsewhere so it's okay if I'm the only one supporting Logan here. I was basically just saying I understand both you and Erin's viewpoint. No problem here. I'd much rather have this discussion than the one going on at a previous haunt. I chose to abstain from that one.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Sept 29, 2005 10:38:32 GMT -5
Wowsa. I am going to watch VM over again tonight, as I know I missed bits in the middle. This is certainly one of the most interesting shows on TV right now. I like the character-layering - no one is all bad, or all good; very Joss-esque. I can't wait for next Thursday morning.
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Post by Queen E on Sept 29, 2005 10:39:55 GMT -5
We'll see. Here's hoping we have a lot of episodes for Logan to grow. JD does the character so well that it may be the writers just aren't interested in letting go of the darker side of his nature yet. Are we really ready for a Logan who's spirit guide is happy bouncy Spike of "Life of the Party"? Sorry if you feel like we're all against you. I don't see it that way. Help me out with specifics if you'd like as to what Logan has done to show repentance; my memory isn't what it used to be and it wasn't good to begin with. Oh I don't feel you're against me. I'm just saying I am on Logan's side here. I felt Veronica was very much a podVeronica last night. She showed very little emotion and I honestly feel cheated. I didn't get the Veronica of season 1. Granted I get that's what they are trying to show us. She wants Normal and this is her idea of normal. (color me bored) I guess Normal = Stalker Duncan. I'm not asking to change Logan to a perky version of me for example. I'm just saying that his character was changing at the end of the season. He told Dick to evaporate if he didn't like his girlfriend. He told Veronica he was sorry about bringing the drug to the party. Suddenly he's back to hey - let's burn down the pool? I don't buy it and I'm not interested in that for his character. I understand that long-term they probably have things planned long-term but RT pissed off huge portions of his fan base last night. Not really the best of plans for a show struggling for ratings. I'm not saying give Logan a free pass but honestly KB showed so little emotion in her scenes with Logan (as compared to last season) and she was so all over Duncan that at times I was wondering what show I was watching. I knew all this was coming mind you as I was spoiled for this episode but I was hoping to see things played that showed more than what I was reading and sadly I think it played worse than we were expecting. We as in those who like Logan and his character. As I said - there was a lot I liked. I still love the show, I still love the characters. I'm just disappointed at the way they have kind of whitewashed Duncan's past (violent rages, sleeping with I thought that was my sister and leaving her alone the next day, breaking up with her without an explanation) and are painting Logan with the huge - Look -look it's the Bad Boy. He's so bad. He burns down pools. He sleeps with trophy wives. Did everyone see the Bad Boy? But I wasn't feeling picked on. I am happy being the lone voice here if that's what I am. I know this opinion is reflected elsewhere so it's okay if I'm the only one supporting Logan here. I was basically just saying I understand both you and Erin's viewpoint. Gladness. But...I totally support Logan. I love the character and think the depths and heights that they show of him are fascinating. I would like to see him with Veronica at some point. I'd like to see them both be a little stronger and independent first, though. I think the PodVeronica was intentional...I think she's way more damaged by the events of the past 2 years than even she knows. So she goes for "safety" and "the known" with Duncan. And Logan has to get to the point where he is held up (morally or sanity-wise) only by the efforts of someone else. He needs a lot, and I don't think Veronica has it to give at this point. As for Kendall...definitely some mommy issues going on there. That would be a good thing NOT to bring in to a future relationship with Veronica. I loved last night's episode...I'm fascinated by the potential directions this can go in. With Rob Thomas, I'm not at the "Trust in Joss" stage yet, but I do think he has a plan and that it will be a hell of a ride.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 10:45:32 GMT -5
BTW, besides Meg, what other characters were on the bus? Anybody else who had ever gotten any screen time?
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 11:00:33 GMT -5
Here's a little something that popped into my brain last night. Since we had a musical montage.
To the Duncan musical montage to the tune of Dentist from Little Shop of Horrors:
Duncan:
When I was younger, just a rich little kid, Rob Thomas noticed funny things I did, Like gazing zombielike at everyone I'd sleep with Veronica and when I was done I'd go and break up with her without a word That's when Rob Thomas said
[Wallace, Weevil and Dick] What did he say?
Duncan: He said, "My boy, I think someday I'll find a way To make your pretty boy appearance save the day
You'll be the new boyfriend You have a talent to just kind of stand You'll be the new boyfriend People will pay you to be kind of bland Your charisma with Kristen is lacking But hey we still won't fire you or send you packing You'll be the new boyfriend And a success
[Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Here he is, folks Veronica's new romance! Watch him suck up that screentime! Oh, my god! He's the boyfriend, her singing, star-crossed love Who wants a boyfriend who's been burning down a pool?
[Veronica] Oh that's bad! We're all through!
[Logan] Hey I've got Kendall though I'm not over you!
Duncan:
I am the boyfriend And I know the fans will love only me
[Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Really love it
Duncan: I am the boyfriend And I've got Veronica all over me
[Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Really love it
Duncan: I thrill when I give her a cookie Hey she's my little smookie-wookie
Rob Thomas: And though it may cause my fanbase distress, Somewhere, somewhere in UPN headquarters I know, I know, that Joss Whedon loves me Cause I'm the director and Duncan is blessed
Say we love you Rob!
Fans: Ehhh
Say we love you Rob!
Fans: It was okay.
Say we love you Rob!
Now bow!!!!
I hope Duncan fans know this is just a parody and I mean no offense to Teddy Dunn or the character Duncan.
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 11:09:56 GMT -5
BTW, besides Meg, what other characters were on the bus? Anybody else who had ever gotten any screen time? No - I think the implication is they were all NOT 09ers except Meg, hence the implication that this was a result of the classwarfare tensions in town.
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Post by Sharky on Sept 29, 2005 11:21:04 GMT -5
Here's a little something that popped into my brain last night. Since we had a musical montage. To the Duncan musical montage to the tune of Dentist from Little Shop of Horrors: Duncan: When I was younger, just a rich little kid, Rob Thomas noticed funny things I did, Like gazing zombielike at everyone I'd sleep with Veronica and when I was done I'd go and break up with her without a word That's when Rob Thomas said [Wallace, Weevil and Dick] What did he say? Duncan: He said, "My boy, I think someday I'll find a way To make your pretty boy appearance save the day You'll be the new boyfriend You have a talent to just kind of stand You'll be the new boyfriend People will pay you to be kind of bland Your charisma with Kristen is lacking But hey we still won't fire you or send you packing You'll be the new boyfriend And a success [Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Here he is, folks Veronica's new romance! Watch him suck up that screentime! Oh, my god! He's the boyfriend, her singing, star-crossed love Who wants a boyfriend who's been burning down a pool? [Veronica] Oh that's bad! We're all through! [Logan] Hey I've got Kendall though I'm not over you! Duncan: I am the boyfriend And I know the fans will love only me [Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Really love it Duncan: I am the boyfriend And I've got Veronica all over me [Wallace, Weevil and Dick] Really love it Duncan: I thrill when I give her a cookie Hey she's my little smookie-wookie Rob Thomas: And though it may cause my fanbase distress, Somewhere, somewhere in UPN headquarters I know, I know, that Joss Whedon loves me Cause I'm the director and Duncan is blessed Say we love you Rob! Fans: Ehhh Say we love you Rob! Fans: It was okay. Say we love you Rob! Now bow!!!! I hope Duncan fans know this is just a parody and I mean no offense to Teddy Dunn or the character Duncan. #applaud# Cute! So.... you're not thrilled?
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Post by Pixi on Sept 29, 2005 11:34:06 GMT -5
Hey - they don't call me perky and passionate for nothing you know. When I feel something I really feel it. ;D
I liked the show. I didn't love it. I don't like Duncan. I don't like Veronica with Duncan. I wanted to see more of Logan's reaction to what Aaron did, I obviously would have liked to see more Logan/Veronica romance.
But I still love the show. Just wasn't overwhelmingly thrilled with last night's episode.
Oh and thanks for the clappage. I actually can see this song -with dancing Weevil, Dick and Wallace so clearly in my mind. Oh if only I could direct this.
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Post by Karen on Sept 29, 2005 11:39:02 GMT -5
Where's my turkey pot pie, Woman?!Hee! Well, I didn't get to watch every darn minute last night because of crzyhsestuff. Lots of surprises!! Logan was at the door - kind of? I mean Veronica expected Duncan, but was surprise it was Logan? Or did the "Logan?" question in her voice just refer to the fact that he had his back to her and wasn't turning around? Me confused. I was surprised when he kicked Weevil. Had he totally lost it at that point? And the knifing. Not sure what to make of that. I was totally shocked at the bus trip accident. I have to rewatch to see who else besides Meg was on it - altho, I get the feeling that there were no major characters. I knew Weevil wouldn't desert Veronica, even though he's disgusted with her return to the '09er group. WTF is up with that anyway? Logan/evil stepmother? Well, I really shouldn't comment until I've watched the episode in its entirety. Logan pretty. Weevil sexy (I didn't see the xtra weight, Sue - I'll have to check him out more closely). CC beautiful.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 29, 2005 11:51:17 GMT -5
I would agree here but I don't think that's the way they are going. I think we notice it because in this episode they are definitely playing DOWN the chemistry being JD and KB. Plus, IMO, KB and TD have very little to no chemistry. Therefore, the chemisty between KB and FC stands out clearly on the screen. When I *listen* to their exchanges, I get no 'shippy vibes from them but, as soon as I see the two actors interact, that's where I get the Veronica/Weevil undertone. <snip> i agree on all counts. besides, if i went by last year's weevil-y eps, i would think they were going to pair weevil with logan. Oh my yes!
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