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Post by Pixi on Oct 13, 2005 10:58:51 GMT -5
Since I already posted about all the things I loved - here are some of the things I didn't love: Too much voiceover. I get that they are trying to bring nubies up to speed but there were just too many voiceovers in this episode. KB can act some of the things we're having to listen too. Veronica doesn't like Jackie - check. Really didn't need the VO telling us that. Jackie - okay they are rubbing it in our faces now so she must bring about world peace at the end of the season. First she disses Jane Austen, then she's out with someone other than Wallace? (which I don't think was terrible at all - hello, they've been out what? Once? ) But I get the impression that we aren't supposed to like her. (which reminds me of a certain OPJ from last season we weren't supposed to like) Acting wise - better than last week, still not Cold Case knocking it out of the park acting. The ending scene. So anticlimatic. I would have liked it to end on the poster. We didn't need to see the very dull breakdown in Duncan's arms. Huh.. I didn't even notice the excessive VO on the episode. I think it's perhaps because I really ENJOY VO type stuff: some of my favorite movies are loaded with it. Fight Club, Blade Runner (NON-director's cut)... Of course, I also really like First-person written novels, too. *Shrugs* Yeah, some of the VO didn't really serve plot purposes, but it didn't stand out to me as much. It's not a convention I covered in any of my film classes, so I've never thought too deeply on it. Interesting. Durnit, now there's another thing I'll be paying attention to. Well - I know it's not just me because there are comments about the excessive voiceover all over fandom so hopefully I'm not just being weird. I just think that KB is such a terrific actress that we don't need alot of the VO. I do think it's to draw in more viewers so I do understand where it's coming from but still - just way, way too much this episode. Though at least it was snarky. Loved with a passion the monkeys must have finally written King Lear since Lamb was right line. Hee, hee. But then I adored that entire scene. I also really liked the teacher. I felt so sad for him when he took the picture of the boat down after Veronica left his office. And he was so perky and into his subject - I like teachers like that. I am also going to miss Big Dick if he's gone for good because that actor was terrific. The gun range last week and the Oh son to Beaver. And his way cool Alias style escape off the roof. He didn't seem surprised to see the pics of Kendall boinking Logan so I think he was behind the boinking. Or at least I wouldn't be surprised to find out he knew about it. Obviously Kendall was in on the real estate scam so I wouldn't be surprised to see that she was part of the seducing and setting up Logan for murder. Because it just all feels off to me. I've read numerous commentary as to why Kendall would even want a boy toy with Big Dick around. And yeah Logan is hot but Big Dick is also hot. It just all reeks of hidden agendas to me but then after last year everything reeks of hidden agendas. I kind of loved Wallace's Colin Firth comment. Didn't we have a Colin Firth = #thud# day on the boards awhile back? I know I remember Shan and I agreeing that he is hot. I find it kind of funny the shoutout to all the love Firth gets for his Darcy role with the girls getting it and guys not getting it. Hee, hee.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 13, 2005 11:42:10 GMT -5
Where the hell WOULD you put a camera on an iPod nano? He's not gonna like it if you do tell him..(wallace). Don't worry, he'll find it out on his own soon enough. Veronica is trying to save your life.. "To love and win is the best thing: to love and lose, the next best" Thackery... huh, a comment.... Is that the chicago "cop"? BREAK IN, V.or he's gonna get killed. I think that Mr. C has given him.. permission. Stunt sent over a bridge...
Mrs. Echolls!!!!Heh, Cassidy did not expect THAT reaction.. So that's what panic looks like in a fraudulent company when the boom comes down.. There was no shredding in ours when the FDLE came in and took the accounting computer and stuff, but that's because my old boss was a lot more small-time than Casablancas.. And just abandons his son on the spot..... At least he didn't hurt him... too quick of a need to do a bunk to do it.. huh. Maybe he (Curly) didn't arrange the accident.. maybe he arranged for Mrs. Echolls to fake her death, and was trying to find Veronica to let her know.. I dunno, my friend. I didn't go to Mrs. Echolls (whose car was found parked), but instead to the bus that plummeted off the cliff. Intrigingly, my mind is now mulling over both . . . oh, the possibilities . . . !!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 13, 2005 11:42:56 GMT -5
He didn't seem to resent him - I thought he was going to deck him when it all went down. But nope - he ran away. Poor Cassiday. Lost a dad and a friend all in one day. "Ward, I'm worried about the Beaver..." Someone had to say it . . .
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Post by Lola m on Oct 13, 2005 11:46:26 GMT -5
Since I already posted about all the things I loved - here are some of the things I didn't love: Too much voiceover. I get that they are trying to bring nubies up to speed but there were just too many voiceovers in this episode. KB can act some of the things we're having to listen too. Veronica doesn't like Jackie - check. Really didn't need the VO telling us that. Jackie - okay they are rubbing it in our faces now so she must bring about world peace at the end of the season. First she disses Jane Austen, then she's out with someone other than Wallace? (which I don't think was terrible at all - hello, they've been out what? Once? ) But I get the impression that we aren't supposed to like her. (which reminds me of a certain OPJ from last season we weren't supposed to like) Acting wise - better than last week, still not Cold Case knocking it out of the park acting. The ending scene. So anticlimatic. I would have liked it to end on the poster. We didn't need to see the very dull breakdown in Duncan's arms. I always love the Veronica voiceovers, 'cuz it's like peeking into her head. They are really leaning very heavily on Jackie - so you're right, we're definitely gonna see another side. Not terribly fond of the tears, but I think she needed to say her thoughts out loud to someone - had to make the icky idea feel "real" to herself, I think. Of course, I also think she's wrong about the true motive for the bus accident, but then . . .
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Post by Pixi on Oct 13, 2005 12:01:39 GMT -5
Since I already posted about all the things I loved - here are some of the things I didn't love: Too much voiceover. I get that they are trying to bring nubies up to speed but there were just too many voiceovers in this episode. KB can act some of the things we're having to listen too. Veronica doesn't like Jackie - check. Really didn't need the VO telling us that. Jackie - okay they are rubbing it in our faces now so she must bring about world peace at the end of the season. First she disses Jane Austen, then she's out with someone other than Wallace? (which I don't think was terrible at all - hello, they've been out what? Once? ) But I get the impression that we aren't supposed to like her. (which reminds me of a certain OPJ from last season we weren't supposed to like) Acting wise - better than last week, still not Cold Case knocking it out of the park acting. The ending scene. So anticlimatic. I would have liked it to end on the poster. We didn't need to see the very dull breakdown in Duncan's arms. I always love the Veronica voiceovers, 'cuz it's like peeking into her head. They are really leaning very heavily on Jackie - so you're right, we're definitely gonna see another side. Not terribly fond of the tears, but I think she needed to say her thoughts out loud to someone - had to make the icky idea feel "real" to herself, I think. Of course, I also think she's wrong about the true motive for the bus accident, but then . . . I like the Voiceovers too - I just think the device was overused last night.
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Post by Sharky on Oct 13, 2005 13:48:40 GMT -5
"Ward, I'm worried about the Beaver..." Someone had to say it . . . Never let it be said I miss an obvious quip... No matter how trite and hackneyed.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 13, 2005 15:16:53 GMT -5
This is what Michael (Sheriff Hottie) has to say about several posters (including myself) suggesting that RT needs to get Lamb out of the uniform and into some street clothes on the Rack of Lamb website:
"Let's start a "Lamb out of sheep's wool and into street clothes!" campaign. Whaddaya think? Let's let TPTB know that Lamb has got to own a pair of jeans and a t-shirt somewhere in his closet!"
Hee, hee.
To which another poster suggested a Sheer the Sheep campaign.
Okay - Karen, I know you're on the Lamb love train with me. Shall I sign you up? ;D
I mean we've got Logan shirtless, now I think we need to add in some Shirtless Lamb.
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Post by Karen on Oct 13, 2005 15:45:35 GMT -5
This is what Michael (Sheriff Hottie) has to say about several posters (including myself) suggesting that RT needs to get Lamb out of the uniform and into some street clothes on the Rack of Lamb website: "Let's start a "Lamb out of sheep's wool and into street clothes!" campaign. Whaddaya think? Let's let TPTB know that Lamb has got to own a pair of jeans and a t-shirt somewhere in his closet!" Hee, hee. To which another poster suggested a Sheer the Sheep campaign. Okay - Karen, I know you're on the Lamb love train with me. Shall I sign you up? ;D I mean we've got Logan shirtless, now I think we need to add in some Shirtless Lamb. LOL! I don't know about the jeans. I'm kind of a fan of a man in uniform. But shirtless, you know that I'm on board with that. ;D Funny how some of the actors really get involved in what the fans think about their character. I read where the actor on KC (name escapes me - played on Alias) was crushed when some of the fans turned against him. Made him want to leave Alias.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 13, 2005 18:32:13 GMT -5
Good episode - lots of things happened, forward movement, etc. I liked the "shred it all" departure of Dick Sr - he and Kendall were obviously in it together - the fraud I mean, and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about and didn't care about her doing Logan on the side.
I liked that Duncan and Logan aired some things that needed airing, and Logan & Veronica - yikes. Love hurts, indeed. It stings. It burns. These two actors are doing a very nice job of showing us that.
I wonder what Veronica is thinking, at the end, when she tells Duncan that the bus crash was her fault? She finds out the the guy who was dead is the guy who was at the cliff , and that he used to know Aaron Echolls, and was in a movie with him, in which he performed a stunt reminiscent of the accident itself.
From this information, and knowing that her name was on the man's hand, she comes to the conclusion that the bus accident was all about her? She has obviously devised some sort of scenario - to do with . . . Aaron being after her somehow, and everyone else getting caught in the crossfire? That's a pretty wild supposition . . . but maybe I am missing something here, and that's not quite what she's thinking.
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 20:32:48 GMT -5
Just my quick initial thoughts! Figured I'd post before I read through everyone else's.
I have SOO many questions now. There's so much on these season's plate. First we have someone stabbing Felix and framing Logan. Then a bus of kids goes off a cliff. Then there's a dead guy with VM's name on his hand. Now somehow Aaron Echolls factors into this. Alicia's got a cop after her. The Casablancas family and empire is destroyed. And we are three episodes in. RT's making my head spin…
As the episode closed my immediate reaction was, 'What the hell was that?' How are they going to proceed now? What the heck are they going to be doing next, after this? Looks to me like RT destroyed the Casablancas, within the first three episodes. SO what the hell are they gonna do with them now? Isn't Big Dick jailbound already? I would imagine along with Kendall. SO does that mean she had no ulterior motive with boinking Logan? I can't hardly see them coming back if they are arrested for major felony. But isn't CC supposed to be in at least six episodes? I can't hardly believe they would introduce Mr. C so well less week for him just to be in this episode. But how will they come back?
Aaron's involved in this year's mystery? If this is true, I can't tell you how happy I am to see this year's case be an extension of last year's mess. And Hamlin came back! Even if only in pictures. SO, is Aaron indirectly responsible for that bus going off the cliff? Is he trying to have her killed before the trial that I'm so glad did not happen yet? Is the whole year going be about finding out who's Aaron's lackey? Who out of all these new people can he trust? And why are people setting up Weevil for Curly's death? Was it his 'boys'? The man was beaten to death. Hmmm… do the bikers relate to back to Aaron somehow? Nah, that doesn't work…
And Alicia! What the hell is up with that? They can't even let Keith and Alicia be happy! And all of their scenes were so good too. I love them so. Them and their pretty jazz music. So what exactly is she hiding? Cher? She has another name? Does Wallace know this? Was that guy really an officer of the law?
I guess this is all just me thinking 'I have no clue where this season is going.' It's quite nerve wracking.
There were so many things I did love about the episode. First off….
The overabundance of tiny Season One references! Preserving continuity to the extreme. And sometimes just overly amusing. Did you see them all? I loved them! Every little tiny bit. The 'Excellent' impression. Unicorns. The use of the word 'tawdry'. Rearview mirrors. That outside shot of the county courthouse. Alicia/Keith jazz. Karaoke. Logan's Inspirational Message. More hidden messages in Aaron movie posters. Logan and apples. I swear, I think the writers are having some sort of contest for the person who fits the most season one references into their script. And I think these guys won. They understand the fans love for references. And I just love that.
Logan and Duncan confrontation! So now we get more of an understanding of what happened. The fact that it wasn't all about Veronica, at least not to Logan. And I jumped up and down when Duncan mentioned Logan's father had killed his sister! They're actually letting them address these issues! Because yes, them not talking because of VM is so much more mundane then them having their own issues with each other also.
Cassidy! Oh, he broke my heart it this episode. I love that boy to death. The end.
The messy gray ending to Veronica's Casablancas investigation. Beaver hired Veronica to help his family and protect his father's money and instead causes the whole house of cards to fall. But Veronica. Guilt for doing what's right. Hurting other people in the process. The mess she gets involved in here. She finds out things she wish she hadn't yet must turn in because it's the right thing to do. Even when it will result in hurting a ton of people who were merely standing on the sidelines. Relate much to "it was me. They all died because of me." ending revelation?
The problem for me was this episode was all about finances, and since I'm completely not on the understanding level of the stock market, I'm afraid a bunch of stuff went straight over my head. I've got to rewatch and maybe utilize some Wikipedia...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 21:29:34 GMT -5
Coming back to say that the earring is Weevil's. Not sure if V recognized it or not. I can't remember where Lamb said they found it... at the biker bar or at the cliff? If it was at the bar, I wonder if it's the matching one to the one he was wearing that day. If they found it at the scene, was it the actual earring he was wearing? Actually, I suspect it'll be a matching earring because that way Veronica can see him wearing it again. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. What part does Weevil play, if any? Is it a red herring? The moment I saw that earring, my mind went back to the Xterra flashback in 201. She had had on these damn shiny gitszy earrings and I had wondered each time I watched that why the hell those earrings were so shiny. So un-Veronica. So when Lamb showed that earring, I thought that was one of them, and I was jumping up and down at the little things that look weird become important, and how fun is it that Veronica was intentionally framed. And then the diamond line came up and I was like, "Crap. It's Weevil's." They killed all my fun... Still, the fact that this guy was beaten to death and that Weevil's earring was found there, it sounds to me like his 'boys' are setting him up for murder too. Curiouser and curiouser...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 21:38:14 GMT -5
Stunt sent over a bridge... Mrs. Echolls!!!! Maybe he (Curly) didn't arrange the accident.. maybe he arranged for Mrs. Echolls to fake her death, and was trying to find Veronica to let her know.. Oh, I can't believe I didn't see the reference to Mrs. Echolls. While I don't think they are going to go there now (I'm pretty sure this here has something to do with the accident) it sure does leave things wide open for the possibilities whenever they might want to revisit that storyline.
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 21:42:10 GMT -5
I felt bad for both Logan and Duncan. They seem to take the opposite stance when dealing with hurt. One withdraws and the other lashes out. Wow. Yea, that is so true. In everything. When Lilly died. Their seperate breakups with Veronica. Great, great thought there!
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 21:46:23 GMT -5
I think that Mr. C has given him.. permission. Yea, I definitely had the same thought. Which leaves me quite...unsettled. But Mr. C. didn't bat an eye at the pictures themselves. Maybe he was trying to set up Logan for a fall too? Hmm...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 22:13:04 GMT -5
My initial thoughts before reading everyone else's posts in a general reactionary - not analytical way of things I liked: Loved, loved, loved the scene with Lamb. I had watched it on the preview on tvguide.com but still .. . . .bwah!!!!!! That was terrific. Every line was full of snark and a fabulous give and take between Bell and Muhvey. I want to sit every one of my acting students down and say here - watch this! Oh, how beyond excellent was that! Their scenes so far this year have been so reminiscent of the early Logan and Veronica scenes of last year it's almost abit scary. But seriously, why is it that Veronica only ever taps into her old Season One self around Lamb? Karma still? Watching the guy that enjoyed throwing you down in your darkest hour squirm? I don't know, but it sure is entertaining and one of the only indications that VM 2.0 is alive and kickin' somewhere. Little shippy Lamb/VM bits? I had thought it was coincidence but after this episode, I think it's proven that RT and co is having fun throwing out as many bones as possible... I was kind of amazed at how this whole thing played out. Duncan flying through the air was STRANGE. And, you know, REALLY funny! But it was realistically lame, and then they actually let them talk out at least what they're so mad at each other about. I've been curious about the details of this split since the premiere so I'm glad to see it's being addressed. Not just the stupid, 'You took my girlfriend!' but 'You left me high and dry when I needed you.' and 'Your father killed my sister'. Now those are the issues I want to hear about! Wasn't that one of the UPN's notes? To get the ANTM crowd to keep the channel on? I must say, as much as I enjoy it, I used to be so proud of my little show that didn't resort to shallowness to keep people watching. Last year, I was like, 'Haha, Lost. You have to show shirtless Sawyer scenes to keep people watching while my little show just sticks to smart, intelligence to keep us watching.' So, I'm abit saddened that they've resorted to it this year along with every other show on network television. But I guess, if we've gotta have someone in a towel, we should feel lucky that it's JD. Hehe. [/quote]
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