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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 22:25:09 GMT -5
Plus the other photograph in Curly's box will probably have a great deal to do with the mystery too. Yea, when I first saw the second picture, I think, I thought it was Jackie's father, Terrence. I would have thought she would have noticed if it was him, but they could still potentially bring that up later... One of the Boatloads of Fun people? No one's last name was Enbom. <i> KEITH: Billy and Mary Jo Patton, Larry and Nancy Crawford, Milt and Milly F-over, Fo, uh, Mike and Lill Wacker, Esther Pomroy, and there's one more, Walt and Bunny Day.</i> John Enbom was the co-writer of this episode, and I wager it was the graphic designer's little joke like what was done last week, when the article Wallace was reading was written by 'Diane Ruggiero'. I believe John Enbom was also a name they used in the pilot as Veronica was going through the names of the 09ers at the lunch table. Not sure if it was the kid's name or his father's name but something about owning their own airline. Which completely doesn't relate, but that's fine. I like the detail-y amusements...
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 22:29:53 GMT -5
Methinks you're right. Is it Cheri or Sherry? And that guy was a cop right? Are we supposed to think he might be Wallace's father? Or was Cheri/Sherry in trouble with the law? See that's what I found so strange. When he first spots her, he calls to her like he knew her, personally, like an old friend, boyfriend, husband (even though he's suppose to be dead but they could always turn that one around). But anyway, then he walks to the front desk and all of a sudden he pulls out his badge and acts all official cop like and everything. And then the same later when he's looking through the phone book. So, mark me as extremely confused... I almost thought he might be an imposter cop or something. Like he got the badge illegally or something. I'm not sure...
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 13, 2005 22:41:09 GMT -5
Plus the other photograph in Curly's box will probably have a great deal to do with the mystery too. Yea, when I first saw the second picture, I think, I thought it was Jackie's father, Terrence. I would have thought she would have noticed if it was him, but they could still potentially bring that up later... One of the Boatloads of Fun people? No one's last name was Enbom. <i> KEITH: Billy and Mary Jo Patton, Larry and Nancy Crawford, Milt and Milly F-over, Fo, uh, Mike and Lill Wacker, Esther Pomroy, and there's one more, Walt and Bunny Day.</i> John Enbom was the co-writer of this episode, and I wager it was the graphic designer's little joke like what was done last week, when the article Wallace was reading was written by 'Diane Ruggiero'. I believe John Enbom was also a name they used in the pilot as Veronica was going through the names of the 09ers at the lunch table. Not sure if it was the kid's name or his father's name but something about owning their own airline. Which completely doesn't relate, but that's fine. I like the detail-y amusements... I've rewatched that scene a few times (the one with the photos). The name on the picture looks nothing like Terrence Cook. It looks more like Christopher or something like that. I first thought it was going to be Jackie's father but I think I'm convinced that it wasn't. For one thing, Veronica is specifically noting who she is looking at... we know Terrence is Keith's favorite bball player and she just met him. Then she specifically says that it looks like she and Curly have a friend in common when she sees Aaron's photo. That line doesn't really make sense if it was Terrence in the other photo - because she would have noted having him in common as well. However, it's important (I think) that she does note it's a sports player in the photo. It may not be Terrence but there could still be a connection there. Having a connection to Terrence show up right now would probably be too soon (assuming there is a connection - which I do since he's a new character and they wouldn't have made a point of introducing him in the first episode if he was just a throwaway guest). Also - John Enbom was the son of the airline pilot. While I did think it was cute that the movie was directed by John Enbom, it's a little bit of a continuity issue because they have already used that as a character name in the show... and a character name not associated with the movie biz. That's what leads to it being confusing even though we all know it's really just an inside joke having to do with the writer.
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 22:59:08 GMT -5
Since I already posted about all the things I loved - here are some of the things I didn't love: Too much voiceover. I get that they are trying to bring nubies up to speed but there were just too many voiceovers in this episode. KB can act some of the things we're having to listen too. Veronica doesn't like Jackie - check. Really didn't need the VO telling us that. Jackie - okay they are rubbing it in our faces now so she must bring about world peace at the end of the season. First she disses Jane Austen, then she's out with someone other than Wallace? (which I don't think was terrible at all - hello, they've been out what? Once? ) But I get the impression that we aren't supposed to like her. (which reminds me of a certain OPJ from last season we weren't supposed to like) Acting wise - better than last week, still not Cold Case knocking it out of the park acting. The ending scene. So anticlimatic. I would have liked it to end on the poster. We didn't need to see the very dull breakdown in Duncan's arms. I always love the Veronica voiceovers, 'cuz it's like peeking into her head. They are really leaning very heavily on Jackie - so you're right, we're definitely gonna see another side. Not terribly fond of the tears, but I think she needed to say her thoughts out loud to someone - had to make the icky idea feel "real" to herself, I think. Of course, I also think she's wrong about the true motive for the bus accident, but then . . . Well, I don't know about everyone else but I was pretty shocked at her long jumping conclusion that they all died because of her. I never would have gone that far in my thought, and seriously, I think she must have found more after she saw that poster to really jump to that drastic a conclusion. Unless it was something that she feared all along and therefore jumped to it right away. Still, I was left abit flabbergasted by that ending. And the way it was constructed, the way Duncan says, "Did you hear what happened to Mr. Casablancas?" and she says "It was me." and the audience and Duncan think she's talking about that until she explains and totally twists back to the bus accident. It made it feel like that was how they wanted it to be. Hopefully next week will expand upon this conclusion of hers and we'll see if it really has any weight or whether Veronica, yet again is jumping to conclusions....
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Post by zimshan on Oct 13, 2005 23:15:06 GMT -5
I've rewatched that scene a few times (the one with the photos). The name on the picture looks nothing like Terrence Cook. It looks more like Christopher or something like that. I first thought it was going to be Jackie's father but I think I'm convinced that it wasn't. For one thing, Veronica is specifically noting who she is looking at... we know Terrence is Keith's favorite bball player and she just met him. Then she specifically says that it looks like she and Curly have a friend in common when she sees Aaron's photo. That line doesn't really make sense if it was Terrence in the other photo - because she would have noted having him in common as well. However, it's important (I think) that she does note it's a sports player in the photo. It may not be Terrence but there could still be a connection there. Having a connection to Terrence show up right now would probably be too soon (assuming there is a connection - which I do since he's a new character and they wouldn't have made a point of introducing him in the first episode if he was just a throwaway guest). I guess it was the sports note that really perked my ears. But you're right. The name looks nothing like Terrance. But yes, I definitely believe Terrence will be intregral in the arc at some point down the line. There's no way he's just a throwaway. Interesting thought on the 'sports' thought being able to relate to Terrence somehow. At this point, I feel like they could do anything. Ah. The son. That makes things alot less fun. One wonders why they didn't just put the other writers name on the movie poster, since there were two. That would have made matters alot less sticky. Plus, damn, the guy already had an actual verbal shout out in the pilot, and then he gets this. Sounds like inequality in the writers room! Heads will be rolling! Hehe...
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Post by Pixi on Oct 14, 2005 9:10:51 GMT -5
Plus the other photograph in Curly's box will probably have a great deal to do with the mystery too. Yea, when I first saw the second picture, I think, I thought it was Jackie's father, Terrence. I would have thought she would have noticed if it was him, but they could still potentially bring that up later... One of the Boatloads of Fun people? No one's last name was Enbom. <i> KEITH: Billy and Mary Jo Patton, Larry and Nancy Crawford, Milt and Milly F-over, Fo, uh, Mike and Lill Wacker, Esther Pomroy, and there's one more, Walt and Bunny Day.</i> John Enbom was the co-writer of this episode, and I wager it was the graphic designer's little joke like what was done last week, when the article Wallace was reading was written by 'Diane Ruggiero'. I believe John Enbom was also a name they used in the pilot as Veronica was going through the names of the 09ers at the lunch table. Not sure if it was the kid's name or his father's name but something about owning their own airline. Which completely doesn't relate, but that's fine. I like the detail-y amusements... That's where it's from then. I kept thinking I know that name but was too lazy to do any research about it. Thanks zimshan! I love all the details too.
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Post by LadyDi on Oct 14, 2005 12:27:38 GMT -5
I kept thinking (re: Cassidy)...Oh, honey. I felt so bad for the poor kid.
Loved the FBLA guy. An honest, honorable man. So lacking (it seems) in the Real World. Insider trading, cronyism, polarizing politics...ugh! DeLay, Frist, Dubya...don't get me started.
Bball star must have something to do w/what's going on. Remember the OJ trial...met a guy who was deeply upset about the possiblity OJ was guilty (sure many others were as well). If he's Keith's favority player, will be hard for him to accept, but he'll suck it up (my speculation only).
Was having a hard time getting into this season, thinkin' that will change after last night's ep.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 14, 2005 12:46:37 GMT -5
Methinks you're right. Is it Cheri or Sherry? And that guy was a cop right? Are we supposed to think he might be Wallace's father? Or was Cheri/Sherry in trouble with the law? See that's what I found so strange. When he first spots her, he calls to her like he knew her, personally, like an old friend, boyfriend, husband (even though he's suppose to be dead but they could always turn that one around). But anyway, then he walks to the front desk and all of a sudden he pulls out his badge and acts all official cop like and everything. And then the same later when he's looking through the phone book. So, mark me as extremely confused... I almost thought he might be an imposter cop or something. Like he got the badge illegally or something. I'm not sure... I just keep thinking it's Wallace's dad and Alicia has, like changed her identity or something? Or maybe, Wallace's dad but not the guy she was married to? But those are very "last year" themes - who's the dad and so on. I may be making the wrong leaps in guesswork based on the past season.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 14, 2005 12:48:50 GMT -5
I always love the Veronica voiceovers, 'cuz it's like peeking into her head. They are really leaning very heavily on Jackie - so you're right, we're definitely gonna see another side. Not terribly fond of the tears, but I think she needed to say her thoughts out loud to someone - had to make the icky idea feel "real" to herself, I think. Of course, I also think she's wrong about the true motive for the bus accident, but then . . . Well, I don't know about everyone else but I was pretty shocked at her long jumping conclusion that they all died because of her. I never would have gone that far in my thought, and seriously, I think she must have found more after she saw that poster to really jump to that drastic a conclusion. Unless it was something that she feared all along and therefore jumped to it right away. Still, I was left abit flabbergasted by that ending. And the way it was constructed, the way Duncan says, "Did you hear what happened to Mr. Casablancas?" and she says "It was me." and the audience and Duncan think she's talking about that until she explains and totally twists back to the bus accident. It made it feel like that was how they wanted it to be. Hopefully next week will expand upon this conclusion of hers and we'll see if it really has any weight or whether Veronica, yet again is jumping to conclusions.... I too think she is jumping to conclusions, based on some of her (still not resolved/not over) feelings about Aaron and the events of end of last season.
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Post by Michelle on Oct 14, 2005 12:49:47 GMT -5
Ok. "She's in the rear view mirror." Continuity crack! Logan looking in the rear view mirror - Veronica seeing Aaron in the rear view mirror. People in those rear view mirrors? They are a bit deceiving. They just APPEAR to be smaller than they really are. She may be in Logan's rear view mirror but the dude may run off the road for as often as he appears to be glancing back there. (Ok, not totally true. Logan isn't stuck in the past but, she's there, lurking and he does keep glancing up at her. The fact that we have seen Logan stare into his rear view mirror last season? I'm fairly certain the line was intentional.) Good catch! I did not make the rear-view mirror connection to last season. Those two have issues, and Veronica will probably be forever entangled in those issues, but I agree, there are other things obstructing their friendship right now. It was telling to see Logan tear up afterwards, and Duncan merely roll his eyes and walk away. Hilarious! And it’s also pretty funny that Teddy Dunn’s best scene occurred off-camera: “You guys, come here quick. I think somebody just touched Lizzie’s glove.” Hee! His line reading tickled me. I didn’t mind it, but I agree, they used it far more than usual. Did anyone else think of Natalie Portman when Veronica was asking to switch headphones with Kendall? As I watched that scene, KB’s voice and facial expressions kept reminding me of someone, and I finally realized it was Natalie Portman. And then I remembered the scene in the film “Garden State,” where Natalie’s character asks Zach Braff’s character to listen to a song on *her* headphones, and the similarity struck me even harder. Does anyone else agree? Keith is no dummy, and he will TOTALLY start looking into Alicia’s background. Who knows, he may have even done a cursory check before he started dating her. I read comments in other places that some fans don’t want Keith to stop being a PI, because they like the noir-ish aspect and they like his stained-glass office as a setting. Maybe something in Alicia’s past will come out and ruin Keith’s chance for winning the sheriff position? I like the Lily/Jackie comparison. I hadn’t thought of that. People have commented that Tessa Thompson is a pretty decent actress, but I’ve only seen her on VM, and I’m not really liking her so far. For one thing, I think her voice is too soft, and she can’t pull off some of the snarkier lines she’s been given. (“The great panty-dropper!” for example) I thought the karaoke scene slowed the pace of the ep WAY down (and forced the solution of the MOTW to be rushed). I like the Dandy Warhols, but Courtney’s rendition of “Love Hurts” was terrible! When Veronica walked by the stage, I expected her to sneer at his singing, but nope. I only found out later that the guy singing was the lead for the Dandy Warhols, so that explains why she didn’t, I guess!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 14, 2005 12:55:07 GMT -5
I kept thinking (re: Cassidy)...Oh, honey. I felt so bad for the poor kid. Me too! We're getting a very different perspective on both Beaver and Dick this season. Which I just love - that they keep going deeper into the layers of characters. There don't seem to be any one dimensional people in RT's world. Something that he shares with Joss - can make you care about or be intrigued by even the minor-est of characters. I think sports and corporate finagling and politics could all somehow be mixed into this season's mystery. All of which could fit into the idea of a conspiracy - not just a single "bad guy".
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Post by leftylady on Oct 14, 2005 18:17:10 GMT -5
Good episode - lots of things happened, forward movement, etc. I liked the "shred it all" departure of Dick Sr - he and Kendall were obviously in it together - the fraud I mean, and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew about and didn't care about her doing Logan on the side. I liked that Duncan and Logan aired some things that needed airing, and Logan & Veronica - yikes. Love hurts, indeed. It stings. It burns. These two actors are doing a very nice job of showing us that. I wonder what Veronica is thinking, at the end, when she tells Duncan that the bus crash was her fault? She finds out the the guy who was dead is the guy who was at the cliff , and that he used to know Aaron Echolls, and was in a movie with him, in which he performed a stunt reminiscent of the accident itself. From this information, and knowing that her name was on the man's hand, she comes to the conclusion that the bus accident was all about her? She has obviously devised some sort of scenario - to do with . . . Aaron being after her somehow, and everyone else getting caught in the crossfire? That's a pretty wild supposition . . . but maybe I am missing something here, and that's not quite what she's thinking. That's my thinking too, Spring. The stunt man's connection had to be about the bus crash. Lynn jumped or so we have been lead to believe. But did he arrange the crash? or because of the similarities, does he suspect Aaron's involvement? The SUV at the bus stop over may not have been Logan but someone was up to something. other thoughts: Oh, if Dick Sr is on the lam (probably in some tax shelter island with no extradition) and the Feds are after him and his assets, what happens to Dick & Beav? Do they move in with buddy Logan? Cassidy would not likely be keen on that. And Kendall, what does a trophy wife do without money? Maybe she'll be the one to move in with Logan. Of course that's assuming she isn't swept up in the fraud investigation herself. Interesting comparision, the continuing theme of conspiracy in the stock/investment fraud and the teacher (one of the have nots) who refuses to conspire against innocent investors by dumping his stock before it collapses.
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Post by leftylady on Oct 14, 2005 18:31:51 GMT -5
I thought the karaoke scene slowed the pace of the ep WAY down (and forced the solution of the MOTW to be rushed). I like the Dandy Warhols, but Courtney’s rendition of “Love Hurts” was terrible! When Veronica walked by the stage, I expected her to sneer at his singing, but nope. I only found out later that the guy singing was the lead for the Dandy Warhols, so that explains why she didn’t, I guess! Did you notice the UPN plug for "featuring music by the Dandy Warhols" along with the ending credit? The network is really pushing the music connection.
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Post by Michelle on Oct 14, 2005 20:48:10 GMT -5
I thought the karaoke scene slowed the pace of the ep WAY down (and forced the solution of the MOTW to be rushed). I like the Dandy Warhols, but Courtney’s rendition of “Love Hurts” was terrible! When Veronica walked by the stage, I expected her to sneer at his singing, but nope. I only found out later that the guy singing was the lead for the Dandy Warhols, so that explains why she didn’t, I guess! Did you notice the UPN plug for "featuring music by the Dandy Warhols" along with the ending credit? The network is really pushing the music connection. Oh yes, I did notice that! The song playing at the end of the ep was by the group, I guess. I get why they do that; I know they do that kind of thing on Smallville and other teen-centric shows, too. Rob Thomas may be taking cues from Joss: Buffy utilized The Bronze to feature hip new bands, and now Veronica Mars has Java the Hut and karaoke night. Oh, and this random thought occurred to me after the last time I posted. When Logan and Kendall were getting it on in Logan's bed and Veronica called him on his cell phone, Logan said something like, "Sweet son of man, saved by the bell." That struck me as odd when I first heard it, because why would a teenage guy want to be "saved" from having sex? I don't think a line like that was written to be off-the-cuff. The more I think about it, I believe it's an indication that Logan does want to be saved from his downward spiral of skipping school and meaningless sex with his friends' stepmom. And this may be a stretch, but is being saved by "a bell" a reference to the actress who plays Veronica, Kristen Bell? TOO much of a stretch?
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 14, 2005 21:18:26 GMT -5
Did you notice the UPN plug for "featuring music by the Dandy Warhols" along with the ending credit? The network is really pushing the music connection. Oh yes, I did notice that! The song playing at the end of the ep was by the group, I guess. I get why they do that; I know they do that kind of thing on Smallville and other teen-centric shows, too. Rob Thomas may be taking cues from Joss: Buffy utilized The Bronze to feature hip new bands, and now Veronica Mars has Java the Hut and karaoke night. Oh, and this random thought occurred to me after the last time I posted. When Logan and Kendall were getting it on in Logan's bed and Veronica called him on his cell phone, Logan said something like, "Sweet son of man, saved by the bell." That struck me as odd when I first heard it, because why would a teenage guy want to be "saved" from having sex? I don't think a line like that was written to be off-the-cuff. The more I think about it, I believe it's an indication that Logan does want to be saved from his downward spiral of skipping school and meaningless sex with his friends' stepmom. And this may be a stretch, but is being saved by "a bell" a reference to the actress who plays Veronica, Kristen Bell? TOO much of a stretch? I thought the "saved by the bell" thing was an indication that part of Logan wants out of the whole messy "screwing your friend's stepmom for meaningless sex" thing. The Kristen "Bell" thing - might be a bit of stretch for that specifically. But who knows. I do think that overall, yes, Logan as a character is terribly unhappy, and wants to be with Veronica, not Kendall. He'd love for Veronica to "save him" from the empty way it all makes him feel underneath it all.
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