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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 30, 2005 8:35:33 GMT -5
Wow! Really excellent job on this one, Spring – and there was a lot to cover in this ep! Tying your ideas back to the images of water and pirates was a perfect link to the episode title and the theme of water that tends to run through the show. Thanks for the feedback, Lola. Yep. It was really everywhere - the examples of intrusion, outright torture, or both. Yes, nice catch on the "contrasting with reason" part. I really think that's what we were meant to think about: How do you best get at the truth (or whatever else it is you need)? Reason? Force? When to use what? What are the consequences and risks? Etc. I don't think Marcos was a PCHer . . . was he? Yes, killing everyone in the bus crash could be a way to disguise an individual murder, but . . . it seems like such a nutty way to do so. I mean . . . why not disguise it with "suicide," or a one-person "accident" or "victim of random violence/killed during a robbery" or some such thing? Well - it's still fairly early in the season. Hopefully, things will become clearer!
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Post by Lola m on Nov 30, 2005 8:47:25 GMT -5
I don't think Marcos was a PCHer . . . was he? Well, I probably have it wrong (heaven knows I do that often enough). I thought I remembered that there was mention of one of the PCHers being on the bus - a guy who was a "real good" kid, good student, etc. And I vaguely thought there was a reference to it being Marcos. But I could be confusing info from the ep with speculation that I read somewhere, too. Or, I could be completely insane. I mean, look at my avatar! ;D It was probably one of the other kids on the bus. If any of the kids on the bus was a PCHer then the idea of them "knowing too much" could be a motive and would be one link to the other mystery of what's going on with the Fitzpatricks and so on. But I still eetah with you and Weevil that crashing a whole bus is overkill to get to one kid.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 30, 2005 9:01:48 GMT -5
I don't think Marcos was a PCHer . . . was he? Well, I probably have it wrong (heaven knows I do that often enough). I thought I remembered that there was mention of one of the PCHers being on the bus - a guy who was a "real good" kid, good student, etc. And I vaguely thought there was a reference to it being Marcos. But I could be confusing info from the ep with speculation that I read somewhere, too. That was Cervando. I'm pretty sure. He was a PCHer, and he was on the bus. And the Fitzpatrick's had some kind of beef with him - he owed them money or something. He's the one that Weevil said the Fitzpatrick's would have taken care of with a "baseball bat in an alley" rather than "take out a bus full of kids." Something like that. And I gotta agree with Weevil, here. ETA: Interesting reference to baseball there . . . Yep. I think you were mixing up Marcos and Cervando, but we have the same idea here.
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Post by Sue on Nov 30, 2005 17:17:26 GMT -5
Spring,
Fantastic!Review!
Definitely an ongoing theme and that's a wonderful list of all the intrusions.
And I really loved this:
And, wow, great tie in to current events/debates:
Will Logan even let Weevil explain his strategy? Will Logan believe him? I so want these two to make some sort of truce and join forces. (I mean, if Buffy and Spike could overcome their natural animosity, then surely Logan and Weevil can work together, right?)
I am sooooooooo curious to learn more about what is up with Meg.
And, good observation about Duncan finally getting involved. Actually, he did that last week as well, when he suspected that a child was being abused. So, it's clear that there are some things Duncan cares deeply enough to get involved over. Have to say, tho, that in general it doesn't look like Veronica or that relationship is one of them.
Good Summary:
I have no evidence to back it up, but I can't shake the feeling that Dick Jr. was somehow involved with the crash. He's the one who got himself and his friends off the bus. He seems like the type to tape the rat there. Something else happened as well we know from the sound of the explosion but maybe the crash wasn't actually intended. Could it really have been an accident or some kind of prank gone horribly awry? Is that a cop-out?
Finally:
Or is someone/thing "standing in for" another? Someone was a substitution somehow?
Arrgh. I think my head is going to be spinning until May! I don't seem to have added much to the discussion except to quote large parts of your review and agree with you/ exclaim over your insight.
======
Going to check my two VCRs for tonight. Fortunately my "ghost/viewer" (daughter) will watch with me!
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Post by Lola m on Nov 30, 2005 17:31:14 GMT -5
Well, I probably have it wrong (heaven knows I do that often enough). I thought I remembered that there was mention of one of the PCHers being on the bus - a guy who was a "real good" kid, good student, etc. And I vaguely thought there was a reference to it being Marcos. But I could be confusing info from the ep with speculation that I read somewhere, too. That was Cervando. I'm pretty sure. He was a PCHer, and he was on the bus. And the Fitzpatrick's had some kind of beef with him - he owed them money or something. He's the one that Weevil said the Fitzpatrick's would have taken care of with a "baseball bat in an alley" rather than "take out a bus full of kids." Something like that. And I gotta agree with Weevil, here. ETA: Interesting reference to baseball there . . . Yep. I think you were mixing up Marcos and Cervando, but we have the same idea here. Cervando!! Thank you! I always get names mixed up (or forgotten) on shows (well, and in RL too). Whether it's mixing up Libby and what's her name on Lost, or confusing who was a PCHer, or (I am embarassed to admit) doing things like forgetting the names Meg or Mac (I tend to wait for someone else to post about them and then I get the name), I'm just generally lousy at names and faces. I go back and forth between thinking that we have two different "mysteries" here - the death of Felix and all it's complications and the bus crash - and thinking they are linked in some way. Like Weevil and you, I believe that it's much more likely that if Cervando's problem with the Fitzpatrick's was just some money, then the bus crash is not unlikely to be related. (Eetah on the intereting connection with baseball, though.) But, since Weevil doesn't know all that is going on with the PCHers, then Cervando's issues could have been something else. And, of course, I wonder how this all fits with the new county supervisor and his plans.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 30, 2005 23:54:35 GMT -5
brief thoughts:
car scene was really good
duncan and logan are equally messed up, but Logan is extroverted and Duncan is introverted so people Duncan escapes their notice.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 1, 2005 23:03:38 GMT -5
Spring, Fantastic!Review! Definitely an ongoing theme and that's a wonderful list of all the intrusions. And I really loved this: And, wow, great tie in to current events/debates: Will Logan even let Weevil explain his strategy? Will Logan believe him? I so want these two to make some sort of truce and join forces. (I mean, if Buffy and Spike could overcome their natural animosity, then surely Logan and Weevil can work together, right?) I am sooooooooo curious to learn more about what is up with Meg. And, good observation about Duncan finally getting involved. Actually, he did that last week as well, when he suspected that a child was being abused. So, it's clear that there are some things Duncan cares deeply enough to get involved over. Have to say, tho, that in general it doesn't look like Veronica or that relationship is one of them. Good Summary: I have no evidence to back it up, but I can't shake the feeling that Dick Jr. was somehow involved with the crash. He's the one who got himself and his friends off the bus. He seems like the type to tape the rat there. Something else happened as well we know from the sound of the explosion but maybe the crash wasn't actually intended. Could it really have been an accident or some kind of prank gone horribly awry? Is that a cop-out? Finally: Or is someone/thing "standing in for" another? Someone was a substitution somehow? Arrgh. I think my head is going to be spinning until May! I don't seem to have added much to the discussion except to quote large parts of your review and agree with you/ exclaim over your insight. ====== Going to check my two VCRs for tonight. Fortunately my "ghost/viewer" (daughter) will watch with me! Thank you, Sue! I look forward to reading your review of the latest ep!
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 13:00:14 GMT -5
brief thoughts: car scene was really good duncan and logan are equally messed up, but Logan is extroverted and Duncan is introverted so people Duncan escapes their notice. Nicely summed up!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 9, 2006 11:52:56 GMT -5
Bizarre dream
How Duncan sees Meg and Veronica? Ooookay
The Letter.
Bikers dealing, unbeknownst to Weevil.
So they're being haunted. Only not really.
Another rib on Veronica's bust. Hmm.
Uh oh.
Who was that that ratted her out?
Wow, Veronica got herself into too deep this time. And Logan to the rescue!!
Love the Veronica/Logan car scene.
Another thing Veronica's not telling her dad.
In my experience, most crime is personal, not these weird conspiracies. Well, in my experience, that's exactly what they want you to think.
Kept to himself; no one really knew him.
Marcos Oliveras- not pictured.
What would it be like to be some one who was forgotten?
Relationship with Wallace is still all about Veronica.
Keith phone call to tech support. BWAH!!!!!
So you're just a powerless factotum and I should talk to Principal Moorehead? Yes...exactly Hee.
There's a Pirate Radio show and Veronica's never heard of it?
Show went on haitus in August, and when it went back on, Captain Krunk wasn't on anymore.
Sorry, I was just seeing how long we could have a conversation with your side being only questions. Hee.
Nice camera effect.
Duncan: serial murderer or puppy strangler. Hee.
Weevil confronting his gang.
So Vincent/Butters is Imitation Crab. That would also explain why he wasn't to concerned about the people who harrassed him in Normal Is The Watchword.
Camp SelfQuest. Ick.
School bus in the fish tank.
trial by thugs. M reference?
So Marcos' dad planted the school bus in the fish tank.
Marcos' lover or crushee.
Marcos questioning his sexuality.
Marcos is dead because he was desperate to win his parents' approval.
What was in the letter?
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