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Post by Queen E on Mar 31, 2006 1:06:13 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS No indulgence necessary...interesting, cogent thoughts that have made me look at the character of Hannah in a different light! I hope you continue to post here; please register and delurk! We like smarties around here!
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Post by Sue on Mar 31, 2006 8:12:08 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS No indulgence necessary...interesting, cogent thoughts that have made me look at the character of Hannah in a different light! I hope you continue to post here; please register and delurk! We like smarties around here! What Erin said. I like the "compare and contrast" thought. Thinking back to the flashbacks of Veronica's sophomore year, when she was dating Duncan and before Lilly was killed she was somewhat Hannah-like. First love, happy, carefree, still unjaded. Mom still lived at home, she was buying sweet young girl dresses and growing her hair long. Then she lived thru the year of hard knocks and toughened up. Sadly, I suppose that will happen to Hannah eventually as well. -------------- We also like being posters' "first board." ;D We seem to attract innocent virgins.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 31, 2006 8:46:19 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS No indulgence needed! We love everyone's comments and thoughts, and these are certainly insightful, well-thought out ones. I think that seeing Hannah as a "glimmer of hope" in Neptune is really most excellent. To compare and contrast with the suspicion and wariness of not only Veronica, but so many of the folks we see. Please, stick around and post more, register and join if you'd like! We'd be happy to have you. **temps lurker with tasty comment-y treats**
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Post by Michelle on Mar 31, 2006 9:33:03 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS Welcome! I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Hannah is likely a flashback to the the Veronica that was. I'm curious about one comment your made. What do you see as the glimmer of hope in the Logan/Hannah relationship?
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Post by Onjel on Mar 31, 2006 9:59:09 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS No indulgence necessary! I found your observations very thought-provoking. Keep it up and please join us as a member whenever you're ready. ;D
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Post by Sharky on Mar 31, 2006 11:44:03 GMT -5
"Ice Man"? As in "Top Gun"? So, who is his wing man? This is actually another TWOP shoutout. Rob does love his shoutouts. Couch Baron - the recapper - called Troy (Aaron Ashmore) Icetwin in his season 1 recaps. And, for a little added geekery, Aaron's twin brother Shawn played Bobby "Iceman" Drake in the X-Men movies. Which is where the Icetwin reference at TWOP came from, I suspect. Shawn's IMDB bio says he's dating our Dawnie, BTW. Don't know if that's current, or not.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 31, 2006 14:13:51 GMT -5
This is actually another TWOP shoutout. Rob does love his shoutouts. Couch Baron - the recapper - called Troy (Aaron Ashmore) Icetwin in his season 1 recaps. And, for a little added geekery, Aaron's twin brother Shawn played Bobby "Iceman" Drake in the X-Men movies. Which is where the Icetwin reference at TWOP came from, I suspect. Shawn's IMDB bio says he's dating our Dawnie, BTW. Don't know if that's current, or not. Yes- I'm sure that was the origin. Hee on the Dawnie dating. She's on House next week, I'm looking forward to seeing her. Speaking of which - how is MT'sfan these days? Tell him I said hi.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 31, 2006 14:17:17 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS Welcome to the board Guest. I too am a diehard LoVe shipper so it's nice to have some company. I enjoyed your comments. Come back and play some more. Do you post anywhere else? I frequent several boards and LJ and may know you elsewhere.
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Post by Sharky on Mar 31, 2006 16:07:35 GMT -5
And, for a little added geekery, Aaron's twin brother Shawn played Bobby "Iceman" Drake in the X-Men movies. Which is where the Icetwin reference at TWOP came from, I suspect. Shawn's IMDB bio says he's dating our Dawnie, BTW. Don't know if that's current, or not. Yes- I'm sure that was the origin. Hee on the Dawnie dating. She's on House next week, I'm looking forward to seeing her. Speaking of which - how is MT'sfan these days? Tell him I said hi. He's fine. No worries. He generally makes the GMT, which is about the only time I visit any more.
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Post by KMInfinity on Mar 31, 2006 16:31:02 GMT -5
So many terrific things in this episode. Loved it.
I don’t ask this because I’m a LoVe shipper…really. But after reading all the posts commenting on Hannah’s innocence, her probable lack of sexual experience, her willingness to forgive Logan, her overall “goodness” I started to wonder….are we being played? Will another side of Hannah be revealed? I agree with DS guest that Hannah’s had her shades of gray, but the contrast between her and Logan sure point to him thinking she’s “too good” for him. The ultimate in angst would be for Logan to end up being disillusioned in Hannah.
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Post by Sue on Mar 31, 2006 17:21:19 GMT -5
So many terrific things in this episode. Loved it. I don’t ask this because I’m a LoVe shipper…really. But after reading all the posts commenting on Hannah’s innocence, her probable lack of sexual experience, her willingness to forgive Logan, her overall “goodness” I started to wonder….are we being played? Will another side of Hannah be revealed? I agree with DS guest that Hannah’s had her shades of gray, but the contrast between her and Logan sure point to him thinking she’s “too good” for him. The ultimate in angst would be for Logan to end up being disillusioned in Hannah. Personal opinion? I think her storyline is over. [Not that it couldn't be brought back especially if the Fitzgerald's take revenge on the doctor and she somehow blames Logan.] I like the idea that she sort of harkened back to sophomore age Veronica. Wonder if that is possibly part of what Logan saw in her? But even 2 years ago he was a bit of a bad boy. I'd hate for her to be "sullied". I like the idea that Logan knows there is someone that good out there; someone who believes in him even if he doesn't deserve it. I wonder if he is secretly relieved that he was prevented from "despoiling her purity" and that she has sort of been "saved from herself" (and his big bad self). Veronica was much more balanced. She also eventually took Logan's side and believed in him for a period of time. But she had the good sense to put a stop to their relationship when he proved he was too violent, immature and bent on revenge to put her (and them) first.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 31, 2006 17:27:50 GMT -5
This is actually another TWOP shoutout. Rob does love his shoutouts. Couch Baron - the recapper - called Troy (Aaron Ashmore) Icetwin in his season 1 recaps. And, for a little added geekery, Aaron's twin brother Shawn played Bobby "Iceman" Drake in the X-Men movies. Which is where the Icetwin reference at TWOP came from, I suspect. Shawn's IMDB bio says he's dating our Dawnie, BTW. Don't know if that's current, or not. Our little girl is all grown up! **wipes away a tear**
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Post by Guest DS on Mar 31, 2006 19:31:37 GMT -5
No indulgence necessary...interesting, cogent thoughts that have made me look at the character of Hannah in a different light! I hope you continue to post here; please register and delurk! We like smarties around here! What Erin said. I like the "compare and contrast" thought. Thinking back to the flashbacks of Veronica's sophomore year, when she was dating Duncan and before Lilly was killed she was somewhat Hannah-like. -------------- We also like being posters' "first board." ;D We seem to attract innocent virgins. No indulgence needed! We love everyone's comments and thoughts, and these are certainly insightful, well-thought out ones. I think that seeing Hannah as a "glimmer of hope" in Neptune is really most excellent. To compare and contrast with the suspicion and wariness of not only Veronica, but so many of the folks we see. Please, stick around and post more, register and join if you'd like! We'd be happy to have you. **temps lurker with tasty comment-y treats** Welcome! I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Hannah is likely a flashback to the the Veronica that was. No indulgence necessary! I found your observations very thought-provoking. Keep it up and please join us as a member whenever you're ready. ;D Welcome to the board Guest. I too am a diehard LoVe shipper so it's nice to have some company. I enjoyed your comments. Come back and play some more. There was a reason I chose you all for my very first time. I will definitely consider registering. I think I've even got this quote thing down. I'm curious about one comment your made. What do you see as the glimmer of hope in the Logan/Hannah relationship? Despite everything, Hannah not only sustained her good, she saw the good in Logan and forgave him. Maybe that'll be enough for him to start his climb from the abyss. Do you post anywhere else? I frequent several boards and LJ and may know you elsewhere. I frequent them too but just as a lurker. You all have taken my innocence and it's been great!
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Post by Lola m on Mar 31, 2006 22:29:07 GMT -5
No indulgence necessary...interesting, cogent thoughts that have made me look at the character of Hannah in a different light! I hope you continue to post here; please register and delurk! We like smarties around here! There was a reason I chose you all for my very first time. I will definitely consider registering. I think I've even got this quote thing down. Despite everything, Hannah not only sustained her good, she saw the good in Logan and forgave him. Maybe that'll be enough for him to start his climb from the abyss. Do you post anywhere else? I frequent several boards and LJ and may know you elsewhere. I frequent them too but just as a lurker. You all have taken my innocence and it's been great! #rofl1# Well, I'm glad it was good for you too.
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Post by Reetta on Apr 1, 2006 16:32:22 GMT -5
Damn it. I have no idea who is behind any of the mysteries anymore so I’m just going to type whatever ideas came to my mind on my first watching. I need and desperately want to rewatch, but haven’t yet had the time or the energy to really settle in and concentrate on the episode.
All in all this was a very likeable episode, but the reappearance of Troy might have just put the episode in the Top 3 of the season for me. I love me some Troy. I literally squeed and jumped up from my chair when I realized that Troy might be back, which is a weird reaction a bit, because I was only mildly interested in him in Season 1. I don’t know, maybe I was just primed for that exact kind of conflict only he could bring in. A while back, I unintentionally (and unfortunately, because I detest spoilers no matter how tiny they might be) read some vague spoilers that a person from Veronica’s past might be visiting but I would’ve never guessed it’d be Troy. I just figured it’d be Leo.
There were so many intriguing interactions in this episode. What was unusual about them was that I felt immediately intrigued, intrigued even before any words were uttered… I guess part of it was that so much was played through gestures (punches, for example) in this episode, and I was paying extra attention to the stares and looks and um, physical positioning and all those things and it just seemed to fit the mood of the episode. I was intrigued the exact moment the person in question first appeared onscreen - even before they had said any words - and not two or three minutes into the conversation. Does that make any sense?
There was lots of wishing about achieving something or being something or some way in this episode. Dick wishes he could write well, Wallace wishes that he knew something about Kierkegaard to impress the ladies and that he’d get the scholarship. Logan wishes he could be different and that things could be different. Troy wishes that Veronica believes he’s changed and so on and so on. Also, there were many questions of whether a person is different and/or has changed. Veronica and Troy throw barbs at each other about having changed and being true to yourself and others, and Logan (almost more than ever) gets gloomy and introspective and ponders whether he will always behave the same way etc.
Other things I liked:
Dick looks smug throughout the whole episode while Logan looks increasingly pissed off in Dick’s company. Life takers and heartbreakers who play video games all day, yeah that’s what they are.
I’m just so happy for any real (or even appears-to-be-real) Veronica/Logan conversations though they are still cut too short.
I love it that once again Wallace seems to fit right in at Hearst (“I’m going to like it here”) whereas Veronica (true to her roots) remains cynical. I’m not sure but it seems to me that in his scenes Wallace is pretty much always in the background first, hearing Veronica to talk to someone and then when he enters the scene he whooshes right in and tells you how it is. Suggesting, perhaps once again that he’ll always be Veronica’s backup, her confidant?
I liked all the everyday stuff (sleeping etc.) included in the episode. Makes it all feel so much more real.
I enjoyed seeing Lamb squirm. Pairing up Madison and Lamb. Loved it. True, maturity is like one of the two most overrated things on the planet.
I almost did a spit take when Keith opened the door to the suite in the Cliff-in-Trouble scene, and Cliff with his totally a hangover from hell voice. Even deeper than his usual voice… booze induced, I’m sure. Now, I would also find it funny that Cliff is all “Oh, I lost everything” casual about the missing murder files if it wasn’t our poor Logan and his well being at stake here.
While the idea of college parties has been used many times in many TV shows, I liked that the writers once again managed to make the party scenes at least a bit original. I can relate to the non-allure of the college parties. I felt excited about going to them parties for the first two years, then it kinda went downhill from there.
I don’t usually pay attention to clothing but I noticed that Veronica looked especially nice in this episode. Or it might be that I just like hoodies.
To sum it all up: I’d like to see Troy again next year, Veronica was Veronica all the way through - and that’s the way I like it (and that Emmy speech scene with the swelling music; brilliant without being over the top) and I generally liked all the references to what has changes and what’s going to change.
And I type way too much about nothing in particular. And I ramble. Anyway, on with the reading.
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