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Post by Becky H on Apr 1, 2006 19:38:16 GMT -5
Not much to add to what's been said so far. I especially am taken with Guest's (who really needs to register!) take on the Hannah-Veronica comparison. You put into better words than I had the time to formulate what was also rattling around in my brain. It did occur to me that Hannah, divorced parents, cokehead father, controlling mother and all, is what passes for normal in Neptune.
About the college party: even as an impressionable (and possibly drunk) prospective student, I doubt I would have thought a guy's ranking of my potential booty points as a come-on. Even if he did call me sassy. That seems the sort of thing that the guys would keep to themselves and not be so blatant about until the girl had been bagged. I actually did know of two guys who kept lists of the women they'd been with written on the wall of their closet and they would compare to see whose list was longer. No idea (and I don't want to know, even twenty years later) if points were involved.
Gotta give a shout-out to Metro-Nashville Davidson County! (Hi, Sue!).
The only real tidbit I have to offer: I caught Michael Muhney in an excellent cameo on Numb3rs last night (tv home for David Krumholtz/"Mr. Universe"). He played an Army officer who had gone AWOL when his Iraqi wife was murdered in an honor-killing. He's only convinced to turn himself in rather than avenge the murder himself after a kick-ass Army Ranger-style hand-to-hand fight with a former Army Ranger who's now on the FBI team. Woo hoo! Try to catch this one in re-runs (2-18) to see another side of our Sheriff Lamb.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Apr 2, 2006 11:00:37 GMT -5
So, Wallace is down with Hearst. Veronica objects, but we know she'll end up going there anyway (don't think she can runaway; wherever she goes she won't be able to help digging up mysteries and corruption. Logan is too busy with the Hannah and the murder charge to be dealing with college at this point.
Good for Veronica ignoring all the tours and meetings and stuff, because all that information is going to be repeated in the admission packet, online, orientation weekend, and the "welcome to Hearst packet."
Hearst, named after newspaper mogul Hearst?
ProFro = Prospective Freshmen. Stanford shout-out. At least I think it is; is there any other college who uses that term? Stanford is very much into abbreviating and smushing words together like that. At Rice they are called "Owls."
Are there more connections to Palo Alto in the show?
Also, the drunken intellectual conversations mention, though I suppose that a general college experience.
Haven't seen the other episodes with Troy, so I'm guessing I missed a lot.
18- It's Legal campaign poster was AWESOME!
Logan probably should have held out for more with the cokehead doctor.
Dick keeps dropping hints that he's closeted-gay.
Also, "ass of a rat."
I'm thinking Logan's going to at least try to find Hannah in Vermont.
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Post by Jan on Apr 4, 2006 8:52:53 GMT -5
Word...Cliff and Keith were amazing last night! I disagree that Veronica was blowing off the experience of the girls in favor of proving Troy's innocence; I did get the sense that scenes were deleted for time, though, and generally I don't get that sense from VM. I'm betting that the Logan/Veronica conversation at JAVA the Hut was omitted, as well as Veronica's response to the girls at the dorm. And I have a feeling that the rapist will be part of next year's storyline. I agree, the rapist plot will most likely be picked up next season. And I realize that Veronica can't solve every mystery put before her. Because it bugged me though, I re-watched the scene where Veronica figured out that others beside the girl at the party had been raped. Here is Veronica's voice over as she walks in to the wig store: "So if someone sent Stacy a box of hair that wasn't hers, there's a chance that she's not the only victim and there's another girl at Hearst forced to wear a wig." How does she know the hypothetical girl would decide to wear a wig? Stacy didn't wear one. Well, I'm being nit-picky again I guess, but to me, this is another example of jarring edits and awkward progressions to move the plot along. I briefly browsed TWOP, and found most people raving about this episode. But a few people felt as I did: the episode had some very enjoyable moments, but was marred by flaws that were impossible for me to ignore. About the red: It's a good guess that someone who hasn't reported a rape complete with shaved head would try to cover the assault with a wig, rather than a hat. My 2 cents.
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Post by Michelle on Apr 4, 2006 10:24:53 GMT -5
How does she know the hypothetical girl would decide to wear a wig? Stacy didn't wear one. About the red: It's a good guess that someone who hasn't reported a rape complete with shaved head would try to cover the assault with a wig, rather than a hat. My 2 cents. Good point. It's kind of ironic, though, that Veronica *was* right about there being another rape victim even though she jumped to that conclusion using faulty information. She assumed the hair in the box was from a girl's head, when it was actually the frat boy's hair. Hmmm...that's kind of a running theme this season, isn't it? Dick assumed that the parent who propositioned him at the carnival was a woman. Veronica discovered that Vinnie's bowling team mate wasn't a guy...just in need of a stylist. Have there been any other instances of mistaken identity?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 4, 2006 12:04:36 GMT -5
About the red: It's a good guess that someone who hasn't reported a rape complete with shaved head would try to cover the assault with a wig, rather than a hat. My 2 cents. Good point. It's kind of ironic, though, that Veronica *was* right about there being another rape victim even though she jumped to that conclusion using faulty information. She assumed the hair in the box was from a girl's head, when it was actually the frat boy's hair. Hmmm...that's kind of a running theme this season, isn't it? Dick assumed that the parent who propositioned him at the carnival was a woman. Veronica discovered that Vinnie's bowling team mate wasn't a guy...just in need of a stylist. Have there been any other instances of mistaken identity? Keith assumed the guy coming into the house of the parents of one of the dead kids being harrassed was the guy leaving messages. But it was the neighbor coming to borrow beer.
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Post by Karen on Apr 4, 2006 21:56:22 GMT -5
Not much to add to what's been said so far. I especially am taken with Guest's (who really needs to register!) take on the Hannah-Veronica comparison. You put into better words than I had the time to formulate what was also rattling around in my brain. It did occur to me that Hannah, divorced parents, cokehead father, controlling mother and all, is what passes for normal in Neptune. About the college party: even as an impressionable (and possibly drunk) prospective student, I doubt I would have thought a guy's ranking of my potential booty points as a come-on. Even if he did call me sassy. That seems the sort of thing that the guys would keep to themselves and not be so blatant about until the girl had been bagged. I actually did know of two guys who kept lists of the women they'd been with written on the wall of their closet and they would compare to see whose list was longer. No idea (and I don't want to know, even twenty years later) if points were involved. Gotta give a shout-out to Metro-Nashville Davidson County! (Hi, Sue!). The only real tidbit I have to offer: I caught Michael Muhney in an excellent cameo on Numb3rs last night (tv home for David Krumholtz/"Mr. Universe"). He played an Army officer who had gone AWOL when his Iraqi wife was murdered in an honor-killing. He's only convinced to turn himself in rather than avenge the murder himself after a kick-ass Army Ranger-style hand-to-hand fight with a former Army Ranger who's now on the FBI team. Woo hoo! Try to catch this one in re-runs (2-18) to see another side of our Sheriff Lamb. Michael Muhney rocked the house! Loved the fight scene, too. They need to have one of those in every episode of NUMB3Rs. Totally agree that what passes for normal in Neptune is far from good.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2006 0:17:05 GMT -5
S’cubies! Did you watch Veronica Mars last week? Quite an episode, no? It had hookers, handcuffs, forbidden romance, and Elle Magazine . . . though I forget why. Want to read all about it?[/size] Check out the new VM Review:
THE RAPES OF GRAFF: Enough with the lies – by Spring Summers (that would be me)
by going to our homepage at www.soulfulspike.com, or more directly, by clicking on the picture, below.
Page on through the review, and stop by the VM ep2.16 thread, to give me any feedback you might have.Enjoy!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2006 7:38:41 GMT -5
I've been lurking for awhile and love reading all the thoughts and insights. Recently I've found it very difficult to contain myself regarding Hannah. This is the first board I've ever posted on and I'm exposing my soft underbelly. For part of this episode, I felt I was in a compare and contrast essay: Compare and contrast Veronica and Hannah on their willingness to forgive. Does the willingness or unwillingness to trust play a role? IMHO, of course Logan is drawn to Hannah. She's an oasis in the desert. She's in stark contrast to the characters that inhabit Neptune, not necessarily a cliche or an archetype. She's open, honest, tender, caring, trusting, forgiving. And we see her maintain these traits despite difficult circumstances. She has shades of gray, just not as pronounced as as our heroes. We see her defy her parents, tell a lie to surprise someone she cares about, use black humor to express her concern for an absurd situation, and we know she's very interested in having sex. She may be saccharine but she's not on a pedestal. Of course Logan uses Hannah, falls for her, confesses his sin, is forgiven, only to have her seized from his tender embrace. Cliche? Contrived? What other way could you introduce a glimmer of hope in the cesspool that is Neptune? I absolutely loved it! And full disclosure, I'm a diehard LoVe shipper. Thanks for your indulgence. DS No indulgence necessary...interesting, cogent thoughts that have made me look at the character of Hannah in a different light! I hope you continue to post here; please register and delurk! We like smarties around here! Ditto! And welcome!!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2006 7:40:34 GMT -5
Good questions. And why the friggedy fuck didn't Keith and Cliff get a physical description of the guy who paid the escort to steal the briefcase? Amen yes, possibly [ Oh, not so hard for me to believe: --She's 16. A young, naive, sheltered 16 by the look of it. --He's 18: handsome, rich, "man of the world", "bad boy". He worked hard at dazzling her at the carnival and she fell hard. --She's a romantic. Her parents have split and she desperately wants to believe in true love. --She really believes what she told her mom about nobody else seeing and understanding the "real" Logan. (She does know for a fact that her father's accusation of him is bogus, why not all the other.) --A knight is a knight, even if slightly tarnished; especially if he himself tells you he's tarnished and tries to push you away for your own good: definite proof that he loves you and wants what best for you even if it causes him pain. --I guessing it's her first experience of a strong strong physical attraction and she has no clue how to use her brain to overcome the hormones, physical and emotional maelstrom. --I'm guessing she thinks she can "save" him; from himself, the world, his past. --She may think her love can "make him a better man." --And there is the additional lure of rebelling against both mom and dad who she's already angry at for divorcing, lying to her and trying to control her (keep her young and sequestered.) Lots and lots and lots of reasons for her behavior, IMO. ( My girls would never fall for it......but I've got a niece..... oh yeah.) As to the sex scene. Well, yeah, I'm beyond thankful that the doc burst in and halted THAT. Again, on the one hand I can definitely see her giving herself to her one true love and being swept away by passion. (assume rising music and italics!) On the other hand----16 years old, first time (?)---really shouldn't there have been a bit more awkwardness?It wasn't their first time - right? The implication was that Logan and Hannah had sex . . . was it last week, when she volunteered to go to his place with him for sex? That was my read, anyhow.
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Post by Pixi on Apr 5, 2006 8:38:43 GMT -5
#clap#
Bravo - another excellent review. I loved the way you tied the 2 truths and a lie into a theme and I agree - we have definetely been misled. Very nice. I have also read the freedom theme out there and I think that one was very definetely promoted. Also the contrast between Troy and Logan.
Interesting that she helps Troy but is not - at this point in time - helping Logan. Both former boyfriends, both having done things wrong in the past (though I have to go with drug dealing as the worse offence) and yet she does find a way to free Troy.
As I said in the thread - I like that she doesn't solve the mystery. It's nice that's she's not a super Nancy Drew and doesn't always solve the crime. Much, much more realistic.
Lots of spec that this will play into the season 3 (if there is one) mystery but I have to say if this is true - I hope he does go with 2 or 3 mysteries as I can't see how this would engage our interests all year.
Dick sure seemed to be playing the role of closeted gay isn't he? Again - this is being specced around a lot and I think Rae did a wonderful long post about it.
It's obvious someone is a closeted gay. I mean we have had all the gay themed episodes, the outing of all outings hint and now Dick is playing the lone wolf card with Logan and ripping out his spine on the video. It will be interesting to finally see where they go with Dick. At this point he seems too obvious but who knows?
But he is clearly much more than the casual jackass he started the season with.
I really liked this quote/comparison:
Nice, very nice. Looks like explosion and implosions up ahead.
True- nice catch, nice parellel.
It's always so fun to look at these episodes from a Spring or Sue perspective.
And I'm totally with you on the Cliff/Keith love. Best buddy pairing ever.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2006 17:00:55 GMT -5
Bravo - another excellent review. I loved the way you tied the 2 truths and a lie into a theme and I agree - we have definetely been misled. Very nice. I have also read the freedom theme out there and I think that one was very definetely promoted. Also the contrast between Troy and Logan. Yes - the teacher at the beginning writing "FREEDOM" in big letter across the blackboard was definitely sending us a message about ep themes. Veronica has helped Logan when called upon - for example, she was the one who found out about the Tom G/Fitzpatrick connection, and when Weevil and Logan came to her in the coffee shop about "bugging the confessional," she helped. She's snarked, but she's helped when asked. Yes - I too thought the "unsolved rape" could be set up for next year's mystery, when (I guess) the gang will be at Hearst. I know that "season 3" is not a "definite" but I hate to even think of that. I will be so disappointed if VM is cancelled. Yes, I had the same feelings about Dick - the "closeted gay" vibe. Also, like you, I wondered if this might be a mislead. Looks like our hunky sheriff is definitely hetero. I loved this Don/Madison reveal. It just . . . fits, with both characters. I know. They could have a spin-off. Thanks for the feedback, Pixi.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2006 17:05:50 GMT -5
#claps# #claps# #claps# Spring! Love the idea that we may also be looking at "2 truths and a lie" this season. The fact that Dean was a "tour guide" does seem to imply that we should all be listening to him, doesn't it? I mean, I think they were definitely implying that we should pay attention for hints of what a third season could hold, but I'll also bet there were clues and connections to what is going on this season. For example, once again we also had a group or conspiracy as the possible guilty party (the frat and it's not-so-secret competition). And your list of all the lies that we and the characters had to decypher was wonderful! Definite theme here. You've got me scouring my thoughts and notes about previous eps looking for the big mislead. ;D Even more interesting to me was your mention of the theme of rage. I hadn't really noticed all these ever escalating examples. This must be a clue, much as the scene with Aaron beating up Tina's boyfriend last year was one of the things we were meant to notice as a clue to solving the mystery. "Scenes from next week" seemed to indicate we'll see what happened between Curly and Weevil - more rage. Surely Felix's murder on the bridge was born out of rage. Perhaps we're being told that the bus crash, while it might seem like more of a distanced or cold calculated action, was also motivated by rage. Bombs, explosions, implosions. Hmmmmmm. Very neat anlogy - comparing Logan's emotional state to the imploding stadium. I was also very intrigued and impressed by your comments regarding the theme of freedom. Is freedom just "not being locked up"? Getting out, or staying out, of jail is not enough. Lots of eetah on your descriptions of Wallace (always himself, always makes the best of it) and Dean (love love love that actor - he was just so perfect for this role). Great job, Spring! Great!! **snickers over Spring's lies and not-lies in the opening and closing paragraphs** ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Apr 5, 2006 18:25:49 GMT -5
**snickers over Spring's lies and not-lies in the opening and closing paragraphs** ;D ;D ;D #metoo#
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2006 18:48:03 GMT -5
Spring! Love the idea that we may also be looking at "2 truths and a lie" this season. The fact that Dean was a "tour guide" does seem to imply that we should all be listening to him, doesn't it? I mean, I think they were definitely implying that we should pay attention for hints of what a third season could hold, but I'll also bet there were clues and connections to what is going on this season. For example, once again we also had a group or conspiracy as the possible guilty party (the frat and it's not-so-secret competition). And your list of all the lies that we and the characters had to decypher was wonderful! Definite theme here. You've got me scouring my thoughts and notes about previous eps looking for the big mislead. ;D Even more interesting to me was your mention of the theme of rage. I hadn't really noticed all these ever escalating examples. This must be a clue, much as the scene with Aaron beating up Tina's boyfriend last year was one of the things we were meant to notice as a clue to solving the mystery. "Scenes from next week" seemed to indicate we'll see what happened between Curly and Weevil - more rage. Surely Felix's murder on the bridge was born out of rage. Perhaps we're being told that the bus crash, while it might seem like more of a distanced or cold calculated action, was also motivated by rage. Bombs, explosions, implosions. Hmmmmmm. Very neat anlogy - comparing Logan's emotional state to the imploding stadium. I was also very intrigued and impressed by your comments regarding the theme of freedom. Is freedom just "not being locked up"? Getting out, or staying out, of jail is not enough. Lots of eetah on your descriptions of Wallace (always himself, always makes the best of it) and Dean (love love love that actor - he was just so perfect for this role). Great job, Spring! Great!! **snickers over Spring's lies and not-lies in the opening and closing paragraphs** ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the feedback, Lola. There were triangles and lots of mention of "three" and shots of threesomes in the ep. I wonder about the "clueiness" of this. One thing I meant to mention in the review - I only referred to it obliquely in comparing Veronica and Hannah and "Dad's watchful eye," but I felt that the whole Tom/Logan/Hannah confrontation was very reminiscent of the Keith/Logan/Veronica confrontation that lead to the break-up, and that Keith's mention of his attitude toward Veronica's visits to Duncan at the Neptune Grande, was meant to drive home the "father/daughter" protectiveness thing. Both Dads sure seem to have gotten in tight with the security guys at the Neptune Grande. I mean - how did Tom know Hannah was there, and why did they give him a key to Logan's room? The same reason they gave Keith that tape - Tom's got a daughter visiting a rich boy at the hotel, and he's gotten tight with the security team. Will father/daughter relationships be involved in the mystery? Gia & Woody? Jackie & Terrence?
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Post by Michelle on Apr 6, 2006 8:31:07 GMT -5
Good point. It's kind of ironic, though, that Veronica *was* right about there being another rape victim even though she jumped to that conclusion using faulty information. She assumed the hair in the box was from a girl's head, when it was actually the frat boy's hair. Hmmm...that's kind of a running theme this season, isn't it? Dick assumed that the parent who propositioned him at the carnival was a woman. Veronica discovered that Vinnie's bowling team mate wasn't a guy...just in need of a stylist. Have there been any other instances of mistaken identity? Keith assumed the guy coming into the house of the parents of one of the dead kids being harrassed was the guy leaving messages. But it was the neighbor coming to borrow beer. Oh, good one, Lola! Also, I think it was in that same episode that Veronica received an email that referred to a jealous boyfriend, and so she initially assumed the anonymous sender was a female. I wouldn't be surprised if mistaken identity and male/female role switching plays a part in solving the mysteries this season.
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