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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:38:43 GMT -5
Kerrie, Just read your post and I agree. I'm also upset that Ellie left and I am hoping that she will come back. As far as I can tell, the situation was over her posting something SMG said to the effect of "Buffy loves Spike but I don't think she is in love with Spike." My question: what is the big deal about that? How is that a spoiler? It's the actress's opinion, the same actress who, in every article, talks about how Angel was the great love of Buffy's love, there will never be another, yada, yada, yada. This is all her opinion. SMG didn't state, "Buffy and Spike do NOT end up together" and she didn't state, "Buffy and Spike DO end up together" - she just stated her opinion that she doesn't think her character is in love with Spike. Back to Kerrie's concern (sorry for the above digression): I think we need to do some soul-searching if we want this board to keep growing. I know with the end of Buffy so near (only one more week! NOOOOO!!!), we're all a little on edge and might be a bit more snappish than we would normally be. I know I'm guilty of this. I do sense a division between the older posters and the newer posters but I think that is an only natural division. The problem comes when this division rears its ugly head and allows people to think that because they have been here since the beginning, their opinions matter more. Now, before anyone jumps on me, I DON'T think that is what happening on this board. I just think, since it is a possibility, that it is something we need to be aware could happen. Some of the problem does come from the fact that many people respond to posts as they read them. I'm not advocating everyone read all the posts before they post - that would just be too difficult. I know I don't do it, especially after a new episode airs. I just start posting away (whether anyone wants me to or not!). One thing that might help is, if someone does read a post that they think might contain a spoiler or makes them mad in some way, maybe read the next few posts to see if the person apologizes or if the issue is addressed. I think that could help with a lot of these issues. Like I've said before, I received nothing but hearty welcomes when I first de-lurked and I think that has been true for everyone. Since we have become a tight-knit group, I think we treat each other as good friends. We kid and tease and we also get in snips - par for the course. I know with my friends, we tease each other mercilessly and we can also get in fights like cats and dogs but part of that is because we are such tight friends and we know how to set each other off. I think the same is true for this board - we feel like we know each other so well that we just treat everyone like old friends. And that's not a BAD thing, it's just that some people may not recognize it for what it is. Kerrie, I'm glad you spoke up. The concerns NEED to be addressed before more people leave. Thank you for speaking up and forcing us to examine the issue. Off to post my thoughts about the episode. Probably no one will want to read them now though. -L :-) Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/14/2003 9:23:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:40:14 GMT -5
Mary, as soon as the words were out of his mouth I thought of you. You called it. If I'd have had access to a computer last night I might have beat you in posting this acknowledgement. Go ahead and gloat. You earned it. deborah cohen
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:40:53 GMT -5
Kerrie - Glad you aired your thoughts. I was unhappy about ellie leaving, but I admit, in that slew of posts, I got fairly confused about the issues. I think that posting - especially on a very busy board - can be a tricky medium of exchange, and misunderstandings are very common. If something hurts your feelings, there is no quick opportunity to look the offender in the eye and tell them so and ask what they meant - and the quick resolution that can then follow. You can post that you're upset, but by the time it is seen and (maybe) properly understood, the person who is upset just gets more upset, feels ignored, etc. I can understand why ellie's feelings were hurt - but I can also see that no one meant to hurt her feelings. In reading that huge flow of posts, I hadn't paid a lot of attention to it - and then when ellie left, I could have kicked myself for not noticing and not saying something sooner to let her know she was valued and noticed, etc. I don't discount your "not quite equal" feeling as a relative newbie; that is the experience of newbies the world over, I suppose. It takes time to establish yourself and even for you to know if you really want to, etc. It is a two way street, and "getting to know and feel comfy" with a group can take time. I know it does for me. But I think of this as a very welcoming, inclusive group overall. Not a perfect group, and sometimes people over-react to something or misunderstand something, but we're human, so that is going to happen. David is a great example of someone who came here with skepticism that showed in some of his originally questionable comments - and that got involved in a major misunderstanding that had several of us going right for his throat. He rode it out and after several not so pleasant posts, all was resolved. Hope you stick with us. You are a very interesting addition - you have a unique perspective on life and love and I have enjoyed reading your posts.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:41:54 GMT -5
Good points Lee. But I gotta say that I think the best we can do is ask everyone to 1) Be civil and polite and 2) Ask people to give it a chance and some time when they are upset about something. I didn't blame ellie at all for being upset. You know I agree with you that her post was not a spoiler. But it was such a busy time on the board, such a hard time to address feelings and specific hurts. I know the folks on this board well enough to know that no harm was meant. I wish ellie had given it a little more time and a chance. Who hasn't had their feelings hurt on this board? It is almost impossible not to, because it is such a very, very, very, imperfect and incomplete means of communication. I loved ellie's posts and I am going to miss her. But there is no way to avoid this in the future if a poster isn't willing to maybe - give it a day or two, let some back and forth happen after they have expressed their upset.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:42:40 GMT -5
Good morning, all. I've waded my way through all of the posts and am, as usual amazed by the perceptiveness of everyone's writings (plus the fact that you all stay up so late!) Anyway, here's my small contribution: "shirty" is British slang dating from the 19th century meaning "angry" or "irritated."
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:43:16 GMT -5
Why, oh why, is there only ONE more episode left?!?! Question: did Buffy see TFE with Caleb in the beginning. Upon first view, I thought she didn’t, that she was just confused Caleb was talking to no one there. However, upon second viewing, it almost seemed as if she did see TFE - after TFE said something about “Faith go boom!” Buffy took off. I could be completely wrong and I might need to watch it again. Seeing the bomb wreckage, my immediate thought was “Yippee! Kennedy’s dead!” and I broke out into a rendition to Handel’s “Hallelujah Chorus”. Sadly, I spoke too soon for who soon pops up her good-for-nothing, should-have-been-dead-10-episodes-ago head? That’s right! Vlad’s girlfriend Kennedy. Oh, and look, she’s being bossy. Who’s shocked by this turn of events? Anyone, anyone? Sorry, Vlad, I know you love her so, but c’mon - chick needs to be iced. All kidding aside, someone did need to take control of the SiTs so they could fight the Ubervamps but why Kennedy? :-) Loved Willow’s “scythe matters” joke. OK, joke wasn’t that funny but I loved the little smile and look Buffy and Willow exchanged. It’s those tender little moments between the Scooby Gang that I miss the most and am desperately craving! Buffy telling Xander how important he is - first thought was of Rob. THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE!! This is what I miss and this is what I want to see. Hell, the freakin’ SERIES FINALE is next week - this moment between Buffy and Xander is what I long to see, not injured SiTs laying around. Willow has got to get over her fear of using magicks - though from the preview for next week, it appears she does. I understand her concerns and reluctance but SUCK IT UP! Their lives, heck the WORLD’S lives, might depend on it. Whee-hee! A mention of Miss Kitty Fantastico. Though Dawn, the genius of cross-bows, appears to have harmed the aforementioned Miss Kitty Fantastico. OK, want to hear how smart I am? When Xander first drugged Dawn, I immediately thought, “Damn! Xander’s evil?!?” Then I remembered Buffy’s plea to him and I put 2 and 2 together. Yep, that’s me, the smart one. When Caleb is angry does he break TWO barrels of wine instead of the one? Buffy’s and Faith’s conversation - very enlightening. I am so glad the issue of the Slayer being alone and how Buffy both fits that and rejects that was addressed. “Thank God we’re hot chicks with superpowers.” “Takes the edge off” “Comforting” - priceless! Buffy and Spike in the kitchen - what can I say but WOW!!! Their tender interaction almost made me renounce my B/A ‘shipper status (but then I saw Angel at the end and my heart went pitter-pat). Buffy was so going to tell Spike she loved him. If she doesn’t tell him next week, I am finding Mr. Whedon and we’re going to have a nice l-o-n-g talk. Can I go on record and say I completely and utterly ADORE JM? That man has more charisma than just about anyone I’ve ever seen on screen. Buffy loves Spike, Buffy loves Spike.... How did Buffy know where to go to find out information about the scythe? Oh, yeah..probably one of those off-camera conversations they have ALL THE TIME! Here’s an idea (just pure speculation on my part): the old woman told Buffy she already had “weapons” and Faith and Buffy talked about Slayerhood as a burden one can’t share. Here comes some speculation: taking this, and what appears to be Willow performing a spell, what if somehow each Potential becomes a Slayer? Buffy’s and Faith’s Slayerness is somehow shared among all the Potentials and that is how they defeat TFE? Just a thought and someone might have already discussed this. More later. -L :-) Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/14/2003 10:15:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:44:03 GMT -5
I've watched the B/S kitchen scene about 5 times now, and have cried EVERY time. JM is a god. He forced me to like Spike, then forced me to love him and care about him - a character I just couldn't stand until sometime in season 5. Now, admitting to being firmly in the B/S camp, but I've never hated Angel, and still don't. I sometimes hate the disparity with which the two characters are treated by the other characters, the writers, some fans, etc. , but that's a different issue. That said, I gotta say, I felt funny about BOTH the crossovers this year (Angel's & Willow's). When Willow was on Angel she seemed too perky - 'you need a witch', etc. She's been AFRAID of her powers all year long, terrified of what might happen when she uses them. And, as we saw in Becoming, restoring Angel's soul was major mojo. But in LA she didn't seem to have those concerns at all. Angel, too. He just erased Connor, Cordy's fate is hanging by a thread (and regardless of whether you're A/C, you can't deny these two really care about each other), and committed, without their permission, his 'gang' to W&H. Then he pops up on Buffy cracking jokes. Even the kiss seemed off. 'Aren't you glad to see me?" It just felt Not!Angel. He's always been more diffident with her (is that the word I'm looking for?), a little more concious of the fact that he knows he hurt her deeply by leaving, etc. This attitude and the prolonged kiss seemed almost - cruel - in a way. 'Keep panting after me, Buffy, even though I broke it off, and we can never be together.' Callous or something. Or at least odd. I don't watch Angel religiously, but it has also seemed VERY MUCH on the shows I have seen, that Angel has MOVED ON. Certainly more than Buffy probably has (though, yes, I do think she loves Spike - SHE might not know it, but...). And since he does seem to have moved on, this type of greeting is even less appropriate. Does anyone get what I mean? Or am I just a rabid B/S'er ranting? Which, you know, is entirely possible. LOL. Loved the ep. Loved it. 'Honey, you're home.' 'Best night of my life.' 'Terrified.' 'Never been close to anyone.' Even if we DON'T get the great love declaration (and we'd damned well BETTER), this scene established B&S as having a real connection, deep and profound. Wonderful acting/writing. JM's EYES, for god's sake...Again, that man's ability to speak with his eyes, his face and body is what pulled me into the Spike camp, and I remain constantly in awe of his talent. Just when I think I've seen everything he can give Spike, he gives him more. Mary Statz
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:44:41 GMT -5
You may remember that about a month ago, I sent an admiring letter to peasant, the originating author of the Original Evil Family Angelus/Darla/Dru/Spike historical fiction I think so highly of. I included a copy of Vampire Sex, the essay, as an attachment. She has sent a very cordial post back saying that she'd independenly become intrigued with much the same topic and found in my essay food for thought. She expressed an interest in linking to our site, and I told her we'd be honored and gave her our URL. I told her how we'd have a posting board there by the end of June, and that she was most welcome to visit us if she'd like to, once it was up and running. Just thought you might be interested in knowing. Nan Dibble
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:45:11 GMT -5
Did I miss something? Since when did Angel and Cordelia HAVE SEX??? Did I miss an episode or something?
Betsy Buckmaster
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:45:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I did the fist thing 'Yes!' last night as soon as the words were out of his mouth! And I could actually SEE them coming in his eyes. It was great! Mary
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:46:13 GMT -5
Well all I can say to that, Dave, is watch out for that slippery liquid soap!!!
Betsy Buckmaster
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:47:04 GMT -5
I am sensitive to your concerns. But what was the brou-ha-ha about? I admit I've had to skim the boards more than once recently (like TODAY!) but I didn't find anything offensive. What was Ellie upset over? The matter of a spoiler? If she's read the boards she should have some idea what our feelings are about them. An apology, "oops, I goofed" and all would be forgiven. Goodness knows, I've blundered now and then, so have many (all?) of us. Did WE overreact? (Gee, I've never done THAT!) Please 'splain. This be one confused Scubie.
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:47:59 GMT -5
I am sensitive to your concerns. But what was the brou-ha-ha about? I admit I've had to skim the boards more than once recently (like TODAY!) but I didn't find anything offensive. What was Ellie upset over? The matter of a spoiler? If she's read the boards she should have some idea what our feelings are about them. An apology, "oops, I goofed" and all would be forgiven. Goodness knows, I've blundered now and then, so have many (all?) of us. Did WE overreact? (Gee, I've never done THAT!) Please 'splain. This be one confused Scubie.
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:48:35 GMT -5
I missed your response last night because I was off in my regular post Buffy chat group til 1:30 am. Okay, okay, you don't have to bow! LOL. I WAS trying to picture your face when he said it, though... *snort* I agree that men and women sometimes see the holding thing differently. But I also agree with others who've said that it isn't just male/female difference, it's a PERSON difference. I would go further than that and say that it varies within that person, too. As someone who was married for a very, very long time, I know there were nights when only sex would do, and nights when only holding could meet my needs or my husband's at that particular time. Now that he's gone, and I look back, I remember both types of nights with equal happiness/fondness/sorrow/longing/whatever. Let's hope now that Spike will have many of BOTH types of nights to look back on, and will have so many great nights, that choosing a best will be impossible! Which, really, is what we all want, isn't it? Mary
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Post by Dalton on Oct 24, 2003 14:49:03 GMT -5
Alexandra just started a new part. Moving' on up, movin' on up, to the east side, to that de-luxe apartment in the sk-y-y-y.... See you in Part 28! -L
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