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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:21:20 GMT -5
DLM had ALL of them up there. Okay, DLM could have been a shout-out to Angel as well, but...there are lots of above the city shots. I think they're about isolation, myself. Eetah. There's also that element of protection (even if it is a deluded idea of protection). **nods a lot**
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:22:37 GMT -5
Yuh-huh. Jack is quite isolated from the denizens of the planet he (and Torchwood) is supposedly protecting. Gwen is their re-connection to that after the-disaster-that-was-Suzie so comprehensively lost it. The other two were headed down that path as well, what with the sneaking out of the devices and, er, the hedonostic etc the doctor fella was engaged in. And no. For the sake of the tradition of DW, I don't ever want to see Jack as a permanent companion to the Doctor. He was good as a sketchy flirty-pseudo-nemesis for an ep or so, but that's only because they were two big personalities in conflict and that was the actual story and made it interesting. The relationship between two personalities that large couldn't exist in as small a space as the TARDIS on a long-term basis and still have traditional DW stories go on around it. OTOH, there are probably thousands upon thousands of Jack/#9 fics in existence with at least one still being posted every 3.2 seconds. Eetah again! Jack would not work as a permanent companion. He did show some deference to the Doctor; in "Bad Wolf" he evens calls the Doctor "Sir" - how the slash people must have pounced on that one! The thing is that the Doctor is 900 years old and a member of the oldest and most advanced civilisation in the Universe - ultimately he's always going to be in charge on the TARDIS, and that would stiffle Jack's character. Yes, I can totally see that. Each needs too much to be . . . in charge, so to speak. Um. And I'm really not saying that in a slashy way.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:23:25 GMT -5
*whispers* That was the second ep...Anyway, I can see that Jack's bisexuality "interests" you. ;D I like it that Jack is just...Jack. I don't see him as bi-sexual because that's not the main feature of either him OR the show. Which...kind of what Erin was getting at, I think, with liking the "no big deal" part of it. Yup.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:26:14 GMT -5
Reason #642 that British TV is not American TV: I swear somebody just dropped the F-bomb. I'm at the 10-minute mark and already fascinated. The poor dead guy, realizing that he'd been dead and there was nothing beyond... Yup. Dark. Yep. Dark. Noir. And with the rain. Jack being able to taste the estrogen in it, telling us right off that he is not the biggest fan of humans with his sarcastic -"Love this planet ". Not like Dr. Who, who seems to be a bit of a fan. Jack's bitterness is more surfacy than The Doctor, I'm thinking. I think the Doctor is more likely to see the full spectrum of humanity and be, well, OK with it. Know that the heights and depths of good and bad and all points in between are there and just accept it. Whereas Jack is maybe more hurt by it? Like the difference between a cynic (who, IMHO, is a disappointed romantic) and a realist? Or, you know, I could be totally insane.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:29:55 GMT -5
I liked the pteridactyl - a pet, maybe? I forgot that!! Loved how they used that as an other chance for the Torchwood folks be all blase and la la, oh yeah, in front of Gwen. (Cop's name is Gwen, yes?) Mmmmmmm and he did look very lovely in the suit, too. ;D So very cool it is positively frozen! Oooh, good point. I'm assuming all human too, but we don't really know, do we? Sooooo wanting to know more about that and betting that Gwen will find out. ;D Very!
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:31:14 GMT -5
Whereas, for me, his character was elevated by this. Please try to contain your surprise. ;D Seriously, I imagine that he asked because he can't die himself. It's very hard to know what effect that would have on someone. He's generally such an action-based persona, and often avoids the serious stuff, that he may never have stopped for long enough to truly consider the issue of death. Now, however, that issue defines who he is, and so he's scrambling about and trying to understand what has happened. Because Jack did die. Did he see nothing? Did he see something, and can't fathom what it was? I thought back to that scene when he let Gwen know he couldn't die. After, of course, I picked myself back up from the ground where I lay sobbing at Captain Jack's death. ;D Seriously, perhaps his death experience was nothing and he's trying to confirm it or get something to indicate that his experience was unique and thus explains his inability to now die. I don't know. I just know that he seemed genuinely interested. He wasn't interested in having the dearly departed i.d. his killer. **nods** On the reaction to Jack being shot ( ) and on looking back at his questioning and thinking that his previous death and/or inability to die was the reason for asking.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:33:43 GMT -5
My thoughts: It's got a dark physical feel, what with the rain and clouds and rain, and a somewhat darker ambience. But, it doesn't strike me as bleak. I get more of feel of adventure and exploration from it than darkness. Loved it and loved the arrogance and hotness of Captain Jack. Now, to watch the next one! I'm looking forward to angst and darkness and hottness and ambiguous ethical issues and the hawt sexay goodness. Now, to see if I continue to get that. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:34:36 GMT -5
Yep. Dark. Noir. And with the rain. Jack being able to taste the estrogen in it, telling us right off that he is not the biggest fan of humans with his sarcastic -"Love this planet ". Not like Dr. Who, who seems to be a bit of a fan. Catching up now. Yes, definitely; I think Jack, if not sees more clearly, at least sees less optimistically. A Time Lord would have seen the whole of human development, or, at least, a lot of it. And the Doctor tends to be in extreme situations which either bring out the best or worst in people, and then he's back in the Tardis. Jack, on the other hand, is forced to live day to day, with all that entails; the "slow path," if you will. I think it would definitely make for a more shaded perspective. Oh, very good point!
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:38:04 GMT -5
Hee! It makes me want to write a whole paper on it. (That's how i express my admiration these days.) And really? That's awesome and flattering; I love Gwen. I really like how she follows her instincts in this episode; she knows something is off, even through her amnesia. I'm wondering, too, if Jack told her about the amnesia pill as a sort of test. He knew, he had to know what she would do, because Yanto accesses her computer and turns it off. And yet she still has the sense to write "Remember" on the brochure for the bill wall thing with the Welsh writing on it... I'd read that paper. It's true. Gwen really does remind me of you. I love her. Smart, tenacious, sassy and blessed with courage. Tenacious! Yes! And in a very practical "what about this" kind of way. Maybe even more than "hoping" she'd find them? Maybe push it along a bit? That is a good, yet disturbing, question. I mean, what's the path from covering up murders and not caring that much about the individual dead person to actively killing?
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:38:50 GMT -5
Oh, and can we just take a moment to appreciate the hotness that is Captain Jack? Ok. And, we're done. Defabricate him, stat!! **decides not to be done, goes back to taking a longer moment**
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 12:40:05 GMT -5
He lived in the USA since he was 8 until after college, and then again other times. Huh. His dad worked at Caterpillar in Aurora, just north of me about 45 minutes. At the same plant that my stbx works at. I bet he's talked to him (the dad) a time or two. That's only, what, 4 degress of separation? ;D Oooh, you lucky pup! ;D
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Post by Onjel on Sept 11, 2007 20:50:50 GMT -5
Whoa. Shot in the head; I actually gasped...so Bad Wolf saved Captain Jack. Unaware of the side effects, perhaps? Or was that the intention all along? Now we have two who can regenerate, after a fashion. Maybe Jack is the ultimate companion, seeing as he can't be killed either. This is excellent, really. Dark, yes; but I really liked how the character of Suzie underscored the point of being too insulated and how that warps your sense of reality. I may have to re-watch. But, if memory serves, Jack was around when all his men got killed either in Africa during one of the wars of the late 19th early 20th centuries and was "killed" as well, but somehow wasn't. Either he traveled back in time after "Bad Wolf" or this whole inability to die gift imparted by the Tardis happened long before "Bad Wolf" and those DW eps. Becca? Riff? Anyone around to clarify this for me so when I re-watch I can just sit back and enjoy the the hotness that is Jack show rather than look for the answer? ;D
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 21:38:23 GMT -5
That's an interesting way of of pronouncing estrogen. contraceptives in the rain. John Tucker. CSI: Cardiff. Hee. It's an alien! Or a mutated human. A man in a big gray coat. Vague enough? ;D Secret passageways are very cool. I always wanted a house with a secret passageway. I found that really really interesting. Like, they're experimenting with stuff, but jumping right to the "use it" type of experimentation before they really know how it all ticks. Which is . . . perhaps useful sometimes but a bit scary, too. Heh! Nicely put. ;D I want to embroider that on the other side of my "candles and pretense" pillow. I like the idea that the whole thing was a sort of test to see if she'd remember or find a way to remember. I can't help but love any show that gives me a threesome in the very first ep. Even if it was an ethically questionable threesome, what with the not really consent thing. I like that they had us think she would be the one joining them, and then no she's not 'cuz they made her forget, and then she does end up joining them, but with an additional strong reason to do so. Because Jack has realized they need someone to onnect them more. Gave it just a bit more oomph than her just being the person the plucky cop who keeps digging and so they say "join us".
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 21:41:22 GMT -5
I LOVE LOVE LOVED this but kind of random, not in any particular order of importance, thoughts: .... I don't think it's all that dark. I don't know why, it just doesn't feel bleak and hopless or...whatever. There are a lot of things to look forward to, IMO, and the characters seem to present that. Jack is quite taken with Gwen. Perhaps for the same reason I am: she's intensely curious, intelligent, gutsy and connected. And Gwen herself is the antithesis of dark, gloomy, etc. She's thoughtful. Thoughtful is different from dark and doesn't necessarily lead to it. We have all the Jack backstory to look forward to. Gwen will start digging for it, this we know. I agree, not exceedingly dark. I do see Jack as scarily amoral however, but imagine someone who can't be killed would be that way. Again, I agree about the relative non-shock about the kissing. I had never heard that story about Joss though! That is interesting. I had no idea he had such a struggle with the network over that. The Season 7 Willow/Kennedy scene shows how much things had changed in two years. And being that it was a different network, I'm guessing Joss made sure that W/K scene was in there to thumb his nose at the WB. I was shocked when Jack took a bullet to the head and immediately recovered, but Susie telegraphed her suicide, so that just seemed like a convenient writing ploy to get rid of the Bad Guy. Good episode! I hope the quality prevails in ensuing eps. The two most shocking moments to me, oddly enough, were Jack being shot (because of the sudden just turn and shoot thing - I think I acuatlly gasped) and the moment when Jack looked up at her standing in the parking ramp (I acually jumped a bit, just like her).
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Post by Lola m on Sept 11, 2007 21:44:09 GMT -5
I watched this again late last night. My first viewing was on my computer. What a difference a larger screen makes. I was absolutely on the edge of my seat when Gwen was walking toward the Weevil. Even knowing that she wouldn't be killed by it. I love how Jack was nattering on about the rain while the crew was working with the stabbing victim. It was just as good, if not better, this time around. The more I watch Who and TW the more invested in the stories and the characters I become. The whole opening scene, with the rain and the odd speech and the light on the guy, then coming to life and their frantic questioning and Gwen looking on, etc.? Was an excellent way to start off, IMHO. It had the "just throw you into this world and you'll figure things out on your own" thing that I love. And it was visually very cool.
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