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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 9, 2009 9:19:30 GMT -5
I'd like to know why Topher programmed "Dr Saunders" the way he did, yes. Perhaps he was as attracted to Whiskey as everyone else ("number one girl" ) , and was trying to protect himself? I'd like to know what was up with Echo's putting her hand over Topher's heart. Does she have some remnant of Whiskey's upload, the one that Alpha uploaded? Was there something in that personality that was attracted to Topher? Taken together this might point to Topher being "undercover" guy, at least in some capacity. Even typing that I at first reject the premise because how could a "good guy" do what Topher does. On the other hand, if he believes/knows that the combined Dollhouses are planning something like world domination or the Apocalypse maybe he's convinced himself that the end justifies the means. However, he's doing what small things he can-- motivating Saunders to stay away from him (although that might also be self-protection because he knows something about her that he fears---like that she might be able to figure out what he's up to), allowing the dolls to retain some of their core personalities, programming Mellie and Echo to talk to Ballard. He's keeps protesting (too much) "that's not possible" and "this shouldn't be happening" but maybe that's just a cover. I mean, he's the obvious person to be doing all this stuff but I discounted him because: 1. what he does is just soooo reprehensible that I wouldn't consider him to be a "good" guy. 2. especially in the early eps I just really didn't like him at all --- even aside from his function -- it was sort of a visceral reaction 3. it was too obvious so it couldn't be him. Am beginning to think that the Topher actor is also quite good, like Victor. Joss seems to have a talent for spotting good actors. And he seems to like casting them so that they get to stretch: the good guy is then cast as a bad guy, etc. [Tudyk, Fillion, Zoe]. ED was cast perfectly in the role of Faith, I"m still waiting to see if she can play against type. So far she's competent, but not great, at subtle differences. Thinking out loud here: Amy Acker and Summer Glau both seem to be able, when necessary, come off as gorgeous sexpots but at other times to disappear into less extravagant, more mousy (?) identities. My sense is that ED is so extravagantly gorgeous that that works against her playing less than herself. But, maybe it really is just less acting ability. Julia Roberts manages it. She really needs to a have a role where she's not all made up in order to see whether she's more than all face and figure. Does that make sense? Topher almost has to be involved in the leaks - he's the only one who really knows how to program the dolls, and he's the only one who could hide the records of the special programming. Unless he's another doll, programmed by someone further up the chain of command, who is programmed by someone... My brain hurts. I fear that ED is actually rather limited in her acting - this show requires more depth than she's given the role so far. Cat wants in. Thought go bye-bye.
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Post by KMInfinity on May 9, 2009 13:13:46 GMT -5
Like everyone, I’m in awe…a fantastic episode. Random thoughts to follow… It's like Angel going to work for W&H. Yes. I have thought of the W&H parallels a lot. I NEED another season. Yes, I do. Not in the way I needed another Buffy season because I loved the people and would (do) miss them so much, but because it really has become so VERY intriguing. Like reading a good scifi or mystery book and only reading book 1 of a trilogy (or more). I really heart the way you stated this. I'd also like to know what the flaming they were thinking when they tested the equipment on someone who was, according to his criminal record, a budding serial killer. Pre-Alpha was already unstable and they messed around with his brain? I mean, really, guys! Yes, the hubris of the Dollhouse and their faith in science is a key theme. They really believe (or do they?) that there is no soul, that they are wiping people clean before imprinting them. Am beginning to think that the Topher actor is also quite good, like Victor. Joss seems to have a talent for spotting good actors. And he seems to like casting them so that they get to stretch: the good guy is then cast as a bad guy, etc. [Tudyk, Fillion, Zoe]. ED was cast perfectly in the role of Faith, I"m still waiting to see if she can play against type. So far she's competent, but not great, at subtle differences. Thinking out loud here: Amy Acker and Summer Glau both seem to be able, when necessary, come off as gorgeous sexpots but at other times to disappear into less extravagant, more mousy (?) identities. Joss’ ability to spot talent is nearly as amazing as his creativity. Amy Acker was terrific in this episode. Mark caught the episode with me and loved it. As a psych rehab specialist he's touchy about the portrayal of mental illness. He loved ST's line, "One of my personalities happens to be a multiple personality but that doesn't make me a multiple personality." If there's a followup season I'd like to know a great deal more about the background of Rossum and the science. For this tech to exist in the present day is starting to break my suspension of disbelief. I need a bit of background babble to make the leap.
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Post by Sue on May 9, 2009 15:45:11 GMT -5
Like everyone, I’m in awe…a fantastic episode. Random thoughts to follow… It's like Angel going to work for W&H. Yes. I have thought of the W&H parallels a lot. I really heart the way you stated this. Yes, the hubris of the Dollhouse and their faith in science is a key theme. They really believe (or do they?) that there is no soul, that they are wiping people clean before imprinting them. Am beginning to think that the Topher actor is also quite good, like Victor. Joss seems to have a talent for spotting good actors. And he seems to like casting them so that they get to stretch: the good guy is then cast as a bad guy, etc. [Tudyk, Fillion, Zoe]. ED was cast perfectly in the role of Faith, I"m still waiting to see if she can play against type. So far she's competent, but not great, at subtle differences. Thinking out loud here: Amy Acker and Summer Glau both seem to be able, when necessary, come off as gorgeous sexpots but at other times to disappear into less extravagant, more mousy (?) identities. Joss’ ability to spot talent is nearly as amazing as his creativity. Amy Acker was terrific in this episode. Mark caught the episode with me and loved it. As a psych rehab specialist he's touchy about the portrayal of mental illness. He loved ST's line, "One of my personalities happens to be a multiple personality but that doesn't make me a multiple personality." If there's a followup season I'd like to know a great deal more about the background of Rossum and the science. For this tech to exist in the present day is starting to break my suspension of disbelief. I need a bit of background babble to make the leap. www.newsweek.com/id/194583Nothing like the Dollhouse..... but it does speak to research being done on memory, and the alteration thereof.
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Post by KMInfinity on May 9, 2009 17:45:40 GMT -5
Thanks Sue.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 19:19:54 GMT -5
Teaser
Aftermath of Alpha's infiltration.
The Dolls have GPS and biotracker implants.
Alpha and Echo cruisin'.
Alpha's got a multiple personality thing going on. I wonder what his plan is or if he even has one. And which personality is "he" anyway?
Oh, they've got some one in the back. The owner of the car, I presume.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 19:36:53 GMT -5
Part I A few years ago. More incompetence on display from Dollhouse employees. First signs of Alpha cracking. More incompetence from Topher on display. Alpha's imprinted as an interrogator? Mafia/gang member/drug dealer? Tied up guy knows Alpha's a doll. Ah, Tied Up Guy paid for this scenario to fulfill a fantasy. This is what happens when you get what you pay for. This is the imprint that Alpha's got now. Or the primary one, or whatever. Sanders is a doll. And she was originally the one with the imprint that Echo's got now. Back in the present at the Dollhouse. Adelle and Ballard have a private chat. This is going to be good. Alpha situation is "an unfortunate technological anomaly." Oh, is that what it is, Adelle? For once, Ballard and I are on the same wavelength. Adelle shifts all the blame onto Ballard. "defiling the house." Interest choice of words. Ballard offers to diffuse the situation. Rossum is the front for the Dollhouse. Tries to tell Mark Shepherd but MS doesn't believe him. As Adelle expected. Alpha took all of Echoes imprints. Ah, he's built himself a chair of his own. Is he trying to be the Dollhouse's competitor?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 20:13:06 GMT -5
Part II
Victor's scars stitched up.
SandersWhiskey tending to Victor.
Victor is so worried about not being his best. So sad.
Whiskey is starting to crack. Does this mean that all the dolls are a hairs breadth away from going postal? That's not a very good business plan.
Your best is past. A past you can't even remember. You're ugly now. You;re disgusting. All you can hope for is pity, and for that you're going to have to look somewhere else. Ouch!
Ah ha! There *is/was* a real Dr. Sanders. And... he's a guy. Wasn't expecting that. Did they take a straight up imprint so Dr. Sanders now is actually a guy in a girl's body or did they do a little cocktail thing.
Also... I'm thinking that Alpha killed the real Dr. Sanders and since Whiskey's face was cut up and she couldn't go out on engagements, they imprinted her as the doctor until her scars healed, and they'll be sending her out again shortly.
WhiskeySanders never gives anyone a lollipop. *pout*
Dr. Sanders is like the epitome of the old timey country doctor.
Whiskey used to be the #1 active. Then Echo took that spot.
Ah, this is right before the ill fated BDSM engagement.
Caroline/Echo peaks Alpha's interest, kind of like Victor with Sierra. Interesting...
OK, this is Caroline. She gets a tour of the Dollhouse, like she's on a job interview or something. I didn't even think that Adelle would do that much.
Four stars, pampered to within an inch of your life, blah blah blah... Pity you won't remember any of it.
Caroline really peaked Alpha's interest right from the start. I wonder why he reacted so strongly.
Now Adelle's giving a Ballard a tour of the place. Just think, if Ballard had checked with the Visitors Center first he could have saved himself a whole lot of trouble.
Tall, morally judgmental man besides [Boyd] in my imprint room? Heh. Also, interesting that Topher's so proprietary about the chair and the room.
So stopping Alpha is taking priority over getting rid of Ballard, I guess.
Ballard is freaked out by blank slate November.
Back to Alpha. He's going to take Random Strangers personality.
OK, them kissing while Random Stranger is getting zapped is fuckin' creepy.
Alpha and Echo. Wow, he's pretty forward there.
Huh, handler knew about Alpha's abnormalities but didn't do anything about them. And is this Echo's handler or Alpha's? Ah, Echoes. Hmm.
The chair is like childbirth or watching some one die. Maybe both.
Ah, imprinting
Back to Alpha. Cracking again some more.
Ballard, Boyd, and Topher reviewing the case. Well, it's better than asking the Three Stooges to do it.
Can't profile Alpha because he's not a person. He's Soylent Green. Heh.
48 personalities. Wow, that's a lot.
Alpha killed his handler, half the staff, and the real Dr. Sanders (yep).
But first he killed "himself." So the "volunteers" personalities are stored in the imprint library or something.
And now he's smashed up Caroline's hard disk too. Oy. It's a good thing that none of us were really attached to the Original Caroline. And I guess we'll also never know who Alpha really was originally.
Back to Alpha. Ohhhh, Alpha took the original Caroline. And imprinted it in Random Stranger. Because...?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:13:52 GMT -5
Part III Caroline having an out of body experience. It's just a body. They're all pretty much the same. She's responsible for all the horrible things you can't remember. Huh? Ah, Alpha's blaming Caroline for giving in a signing the contract and becoming a doll, etc. I'm sure a lot of people are enjoying the cut of Echo's top right about now. Echo can "ascend." Um, yay? Whoa. Cut to a much younger Alpha. Or maybe not, just seems that way from this angle. Bonsai class. Handlers gossiping. Like moms at playgroup. And did we seen Asian handler in the Great Escape episode. Alpha flips out. So that's why Whiskey's face got cut up. Topher's flashback hair, LOL. Alpha was making "art." Hmm. Wait, this guy is Alpha's handler? I'm confused. Alpha was going to be sent to the Attic. Wow, that's horrific. Like a Frankenstein homage? I love the way this was shot. I understand hell now. And so it begins. Back to the present. Who is Alpha? Alpha is all of these. Yeah... I think that's the root cause of your myriad of problems here. There's so much about the human mind we don't understand. Clearly you're missing something, and it's not the 48 personalities. Wow, Ballard is actually being smart FBI man here. Too bad he's lost almost all credibility with me thus far. And then he looses me again with this talk about the soul. Unless he's using it as a catch all term for everything unknown about the human mind/psyche, but that just turns it into a God-is-in-the-gaps pitfall. Topher's all, "what is this 'soul' you speak of?" Heh. Adelle *really*doesn't want to reveal what Alpha was before. It must be personal. Back to Alpha's Nuthouse. Caroline talking to Echo. Alpha wants Echo kill Caroline. Just how deep does his self loathing go? The old gods are back. Alpha, meet Omega. More Frankenstein homage. Flashing to all of Echoes engagements. One perfect drop of blood on Echo's lip. Heh. Bet Alpha wasn't expecting that!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:31:53 GMT -5
Part IV
Carl William Craft. Ah, Alpha's original name.
Three names, always ominous. Heh.
THEY USED PRISONERS!?!? 1) Nothing could go wrong with that!! 2) Another Frankenstein reference. 3) Reference to unethical use of prisoners for experimentation throughout the 20th century and before.
Ballard and Boyd are rapidly becoming a buddy cop movie. Heh.
Back to Alpha vs Omega: This Time It's Personal.
Her is me. Her is the old you.
We're not multiple personalities, we're many personalities.
I'm looking for a little nuance here. Heh.
Alpha thinks he's the UberMensche.
EchoOmega does a little ruminating on identity.
Now we're on the set of American Gladiators.
Ballard and Boyd. It's light out already. Either this was the shortest night ever or they've been driving a really long time.
Ballard asks Boyd an Excellent Question.
Anita Walsh. And she's got the same kind of scars.
Back to Worst. Breakup. Ever.
Echo is nobody.
Caroline wants to honor her contract. Echo thinks that's hogwash.
We have a black president? Hee.
Oops, I guess Alpha wasn't knocked out after all.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:38:50 GMT -5
Part V
Topher trying different imprints.
Whiskey 1.1.
Ah, they've found where Alpha is hiding.
And Topher's discovered the personality that Alpha imprinted Echo with. Whiskey's eavesdropping.
Back to Alpha and Echo.
Alpha wants to keep killing Caroline over and over again. He wants to kill the object of his obsession. But that's not going to get rid of it.
Ballard and Boyd to the rescue.
I suddenly feel like we're watching a much different show. Like Law and Order or something.
Ballard saves Caroline. Just like he always wanted to.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:50:44 GMT -5
Coda
Whiskey's discovered her true identity.
Why did you decide it was so important for me to hate you? I think that's strange. Hmm...
Wow, what went on between Topher and Whiskey? Or between who Whiskey used to be.
Alpha is still at large.
Ah, November's term is is up. So I guess the Dollhouse really does honor their contracts. Oh, I guess that Ballard's agreeing to work for the Dollhouse in exchange for letting November go.
Echo is back to a blank slate. Or is she?
Poor Victor.
November doesn't seem to be any worse for the wear. Or is she?
Oh, I guess WhiskeySanders does give out lollipops. That's nice.
November's real name is Madeline.
Echo's still going above and beyond her blank slate state. Topher is oddly shaken.
And you are? I'm nobody. How apt.
Everybody's got to learn sometime.
Boyd looks at Ballard with pity? Did he have a similar experience?
Caroline.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:56:21 GMT -5
Oh, Doc Saunders . . . "I'm not just Bobby." Whoa! Flashback!! Whoa. So . . . this guy bought a cross-country crime spree with psychos?!? OMG! The folks who thought Doc S was an active, sooooooo right! "Whiskey, would you like a treatment?" Whoa!! Whoa!! Whoa!! "The alpha situation was an unfortunate technical anomaly." Well. That's one way to put it. Brought this thing in . . . to defile again. Hmmm.Ballard can make this go away. So, he's gonna claim he's helping them? Only, of course, he tries to spill the beans and no one believes him. Whoa. Every personality that was ever in Echo is gone? He took them? Does he want to build another multiple personality like him to be his girlfriend? Is Frankenstein's monster building his own bride? I think that for Adelle, her work is not just a job to her, it's a spiritual experience. Like she's the High Priestess or something.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 21:59:11 GMT -5
These composite events seem to be a lot like the taking of The Water of Life in Dune. Some can handle it, the Reverend Mothers, Paul Maud'hib, Leto II, and Ghanima (and Echo), while others, Abominations like Alia (and Alpha) cannot.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 22:08:54 GMT -5
Another connection to Dune... the idea of using programmed humans (Mentats as "human computers" and folks like Dr. Yueh who were conditioned somehow, I'm not really clear on that...) rather than more and more technology. Despite constantly underestimating humanity of the dolls, the Dollhouse folks seem to also recognize that problems are sometimes best solved by human ingenuity and creativity rather than applying more technology.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 9, 2009 22:14:21 GMT -5
Dear Joss, repeat after me: "I solemnly swear............... to never, ever, ever, write, direct or film.......... another scene involving the freaking gouging out of frakking eyeballs!
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