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Post by Lola m on Feb 3, 2004 21:36:07 GMT -5
Ah, Chocolatey Goodness, the first S/X I ever read. Really good story that I printed out and put in a binder. Do you really think it can't go any further? I would like to see a little more of it, just to wrap it up a little more. <snip> This site also has a page of Dominant Xander stories. I've read The Long Spiral Downward (WIP). I don't think it's written very well (the author is Australian and lets it come out in Xander at times), but if you want to read a story where Xander is a complete bastard, give it a read. Spike is also very out of character and is portrayed as an abused spouse. Really, the only reason I kept reading it, was because I wanted to see what happened. Mmmmm. Mad Poetess. So chocolately. So goodness....umm I mean good. I printed that one out myself, too. And I agee with Nan. Much as she (and we) would like it to go on - I think it's done. But, if she's still labeling it WIP, I continue to hold out hope that she'll pick up the concept and do more with it. 'Cuz I love it. Caraleigh - ITA. I tried The Long Spiral Downward. but just couldn't keep going after a while. I have a fairly high tolerace for stretching a character, but this one stretched them both until they snapped and couldn't be glued back together again. (And, yeah - the writing just wasn't all that good.) Lola
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Post by Lola m on Feb 3, 2004 21:40:28 GMT -5
Reading through some old favorites as well as posting some recs here has caused me to reflect a bit on what I think about fan fic and slash in particular. I thought I’d post some here just to try putting thoughts into words – this often helps me clarify things in my own head. This isn’t really a slash site, so didn’t want to put any of this on the main board, and have no idea if it’s even appropriate or if anyone else will care/be interested in what I’ve been mulling about. If not appropriate, just let me know or delete it. If not interested, I guess just feel free to ignore. If it's all just painfully obvious, well, I guess I knew that. But those of you who do read slash (at least sometimes) may have some feedback or might want to share their own thoughts. Basically, just wondering – am I the only one who thinks about stuff like this, or am I insane, or what? I know – “or what”.
I think most folks read fan fic for the alternative or additional view – alternative or additional to “canon”. A different take on a season or episode, a “missing” scene, or what happens after the show ends, etc. I’ve always loved stories that are based on “what if XX happened instead of XX or after XX?”. Probably why I’ve been a science fiction fan all my life. It’s the kind of thing I always did in my own head way before I knew such a thing as fan fic existed. I was always mentally re-writing books or shows or movies, etc. - changing endings or scenes or re-casting them, etc.
When I think about slash fan fic, I guess it’s kinda the ultimate “alternative” that I’m never gonna see on the show itself. In other words, when I want vicarious Spuffy thrills, I can watch seasons 6 and 7 (for down and dirty or noble true love – take your pick). But I’m never gonna be given vicarious Spander thrills shown with the same depth. Not on network; not usually on cable; not often even on most premium cable shows. It’s just not going to happen. Joss had to work so hard to get even the minor amount of affection shown between Willow and Tara on the air – and theirs was definitely a serious, healthy, committed relationship lasting for years. When you compare this to the amount of physicality shown for any heterosexual pairing, whether serious (such as Buffy/Riley) or shallow (for example, Buffy and Parker – to name a particularly not nice relationship) the limitations become obvious. And television has a relatively easier time airing F/F sexuality than that of M/M. Gay or Bi male characters on television tend to be limited to either one per show – so that they never have to deal with any type of sexual situations – or short timers – limit the relationships to one-offs that can’t work for some other reason, again to remove the need for affectionate scenes. Let’s face it, most M/M interaction is gonna be done as a joke or misunderstanding. Hollywood may hate to show realistic physical interaction, but they’ll jump on any opportunity to get the comic character mistaken for gay, or in a dress, or in an innuendo laden conversation – anything that’s not “real”. If I want Xander and Spike rolling around in bed like Buffy and Riley in “The I in Team” or “Where the Wild Things Are” (and boy do I), I’m gonna have to get it elsewhere – in fan fic.
Now, the personal “why slash” for me is easy. M/M slash obviously is one of the things I “like” – it pushes my buttons – it’s one of my “kinks”, as Anna S says. Everyone has their preferences, this is one of mine. C’est la vie or what have you. As far as actual canon relationships, I always liked Spike/Buffy best, but now would prefer Spike to figure out his own life first before getting involved with anyone!
I’ve got other half formed ideas, something like: can canon “jokey” scenes with slash overtones be considered to have as much if not more weight than heterosexual UST because they are more “forbidden” and therefore, to have appeared at all, must be important? But I won’t go into that ‘cuz I’ve bored everyone to tears by now as it is.
Whew. Didn’t mean to get all serious and dull. I’ll go post fanciful off topic stuff on the main board now. And some long overdue appreciation for fan fic on this site that I’ve read so far.
Lola
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Post by karalee on Feb 5, 2004 22:08:22 GMT -5
Reading through some old favorites as well as posting some recs here has caused me to reflect a bit on what I think about fan fic and slash in particular. I thought I’d post some here just to try putting thoughts into words – this often helps me clarify things in my own head. This isn’t really a slash site, so didn’t want to put any of this on the main board, and have no idea if it’s even appropriate or if anyone else will care/be interested in what I’ve been mulling about. If not appropriate, just let me know or delete it. If not interested, I guess just feel free to ignore. If it's all just painfully obvious, well, I guess I knew that. But those of you who do read slash (at least sometimes) may have some feedback or might want to share their own thoughts. Basically, just wondering – am I the only one who thinks about stuff like this, or am I insane, or what? I know – “or what”. I think most folks read fan fic for the alternative or additional view – alternative or additional to “canon”. A different take on a season or episode, a “missing” scene, or what happens after the show ends, etc. I’ve always loved stories that are based on “what if XX happened instead of XX or after XX?”. Probably why I’ve been a science fiction fan all my life. It’s the kind of thing I always did in my own head way before I knew such a thing as fan fic existed. I was always mentally re-writing books or shows or movies, etc. - changing endings or scenes or re-casting them, etc. When I think about slash fan fic, I guess it’s kinda the ultimate “alternative” that I’m never gonna see on the show itself. In other words, when I want vicarious Spuffy thrills, I can watch seasons 6 and 7 (for down and dirty or noble true love – take your pick). But I’m never gonna be given vicarious Spander thrills shown with the same depth. Not on network; not usually on cable; not often even on most premium cable shows. It’s just not going to happen. Joss had to work so hard to get even the minor amount of affection shown between Willow and Tara on the air – and theirs was definitely a serious, healthy, committed relationship lasting for years. When you compare this to the amount of physicality shown for any heterosexual pairing, whether serious (such as Buffy/Riley) or shallow (for example, Buffy and Parker – to name a particularly not nice relationship) the limitations become obvious. And television has a relatively easier time airing F/F sexuality than that of M/M. Gay or Bi male characters on television tend to be limited to either one per show – so that they never have to deal with any type of sexual situations – or short timers – limit the relationships to one-offs that can’t work for some other reason, again to remove the need for affectionate scenes. Let’s face it, most M/M interaction is gonna be done as a joke or misunderstanding. Hollywood may hate to show realistic physical interaction, but they’ll jump on any opportunity to get the comic character mistaken for gay, or in a dress, or in an innuendo laden conversation – anything that’s not “real”. If I want Xander and Spike rolling around in bed like Buffy and Riley in “The I in Team” or “Where the Wild Things Are” (and boy do I), I’m gonna have to get it elsewhere – in fan fic. Now, the personal “why slash” for me is easy. M/M slash obviously is one of the things I “like” – it pushes my buttons – it’s one of my “kinks”, as Anna S says. Everyone has their preferences, this is one of mine. C’est la vie or what have you. As far as actual canon relationships, I always liked Spike/Buffy best, but now would prefer Spike to figure out his own life first before getting involved with anyone! I’ve got other half formed ideas, something like: can canon “jokey” scenes with slash overtones be considered to have as much if not more weight than heterosexual UST because they are more “forbidden” and therefore, to have appeared at all, must be important? But I won’t go into that ‘cuz I’ve bored everyone to tears by now as it is. Whew. Didn’t mean to get all serious and dull. I’ll go post fanciful off topic stuff on the main board now. And some long overdue appreciation for fan fic on this site that I’ve read so far. Lola This is a good post. I have to admit that for me, it's a kink. Pure and simple One I didn't even know I had until I discovered fanfiction.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 6, 2004 16:40:55 GMT -5
OK, Giles is loved by a tree. You haven't seen this before! Strange, well-written, lovely, fey, sad, but it all comes out all right in the end. The Waking, by MadPoetess at: www.hawksong.com/~mpoetess/stakes/fic/waking.htmlHer main site is at: www.hawksong.com/~mpoetess/stakes/fic/She seems to specialize in Giles/Ethan slash, but that's only vaguely hinted at in The Waking. I now notice I commented on her "Chocolatey Goodness" WIP-so called, but she's not a writer whose work I've read much of. So I came to her site from a different direction this time.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 6, 2004 16:50:08 GMT -5
Lola, I was interested in your statement about why slash appeals to you. I never saw/read slash until I read some Highlander fanfic, much of which was awful but some of which was excellent.
Anyway, I read omnivorously in any fandom I'm interested in and slash is just one of the flavors. I'm interested in literate, insightful, well-crafted writing, whatever its subject. And I tend to read despite explicit sex, of whatever flavor, rather than because of it. I'm interested in the subtleties of character and relationship no matter what the pairing, and I walk quickly away from those that don't have the qualities I'm seeking.
So slash isn't a favorite of mine. It's just one of the kinds of good fanfic I'm always seeking. The plottier the better.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 7, 2004 11:40:19 GMT -5
OK, Giles is loved by a tree. You haven't seen this before! Strange, well-written, lovely, fey, sad, but it all comes out all right in the end. The Waking, by MadPoetess at: www.hawksong.com/~mpoetess/stakes/fic/waking.htmlHer main site is at: www.hawksong.com/~mpoetess/stakes/fic/She seems to specialize in Giles/Ethan slash, but that's only vaguely hinted at in The Waking. I now notice I commented on her "Chocolatey Goodness" WIP-so called, but she's not a writer whose work I've read much of. So I came to her site from a different direction this time. Hey Nan. Oh my! The Waking is really quite lovely. And the final bits that match up to Buffy events.... Willow trying to destroy the world - the world wide scream; and then the healing earth magic later. Very well done. Mad Poetess seems to be really good at creating unique magical or fey characters. When I was reading this, I thought back to the dream stealing ghostlike entity - Reikawa Reikoko - that we meet toward the end of Chocolatey Goodness. I have always found that part of the story fascinating; how Rei is "created" and the bits with Spike and Dru and her during WWII. Thanks for also including a link to her site's fiction. All I had were some old bookmarks to other people's archives containing some of her older stuff, but I didn't have this one. Now I can browse to my heart's content. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Feb 7, 2004 11:47:15 GMT -5
This is a good post. I have to admit that for me, it's a kink. Pure and simple One I didn't even know I had until I discovered fanfiction. Kind of went the other way 'round for me. As I mentioned, I was always kind of re-doing shows and movies and so on in my head - and sometimes I'd find myself putting two of the really cute guys together as part of my plotting. I just thought I was weird to re-work stuff at all, much less the stuff with the boys. Then I discovered fan fiction and was like "well, if I'm a freak, then lots of others are too! 'Cuz look at all the people reading and writing the kind of stuff that's been in my head!" And then I did the dance of joy! I'd put in a little image of dancing Numfar here, but I'm trying to ease back on my Numfar addiction. I don't know why, but I just crack up everytime I see that - no matter how many times. ;D Lola
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Post by Lola m on Mar 5, 2004 22:53:10 GMT -5
Hey everybody (especially Rob and all other Xander fans, like me) Had to post a quick note about Xander Appreciation Day. I had seen it mentioned a time or two on sites or LJs, but hadn’t remembered where and wanted the details before I posted something about it here. So I googled and found the site devoted to it. (Side note: don’t you love google? Google finds anything. Always. Actually it’s a little scary what google finds. OK, I admit I am a little afraid of google. But yet I still love it. Love and fear. I am a sick puppy. ) Back to my point. Buddy / whimsicalnotion has declared May 1st to be Xander Appreciation day and is calling all the folks out there to get creative and Xander-centric. Celebrate the Xander within, or whatever. (For those who have come to know and fear me, the site does say that stuff DOESN'T have to be slashy. ;D ) I hope this results in a nice burst of new Xander stuff. ‘Cuz I can always appreciate that. I mean, come on - Rob is only one man - he can't do it all by himself! And that started to sound a little..............Wednesday, didn't it? Anyway, for the interested parties, here’s a link to the site. www.precious-kisses.co.uk/paranoia/xander.html Posting this on both of fiction threads - as it looks like they are calling for slash and non-slash. In case you are a fic writer and want to participate. Or a fic reader and want to go there when stuff starts getting posted. (It’s not going to be just fic, tho' – site is also looking for pics, vids, etc.) Lola
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makd guesting early
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Post by makd guesting early on Mar 20, 2004 5:04:37 GMT -5
Hi, everyone I've found a WIP that's hooked me! I started reading a chapter on break and just realized that 6 hours had passed and I'm still reading,and still in awe. Here's the URL: www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=thebratqueen&keyword=Pet&filter=allIt's The Brat Queen's LJ memories; the story, which has 28 chapters, is called, Pet. Set in an AU Season 5 AtS; It's Wesley/Angel/Spike, and, aside from Jenny, I'd never read any of this 'ship before. It's awesome. It's got plot, great characterization, dialogue that you'll swear comes from AtS episodes, humor, the scary, everything. Go there now. Read. Come back and post! MHAHAHA. This is primo. I guarantee: you'll be reading till the wee hours. The sex is sometimes subtle, sometimes overt. It's not as overt sex as Jenny, but it is, Goddess help me, HOT! There's BDSM, there's Spike at his Spikiest, giving love advice, to Wesley and Angel, there's Gunn standing up to Angel to defend his friend, there's Angel as you haven't seen him since Season 2 -, there's Harmony, ditzy as ever; there's Fred (ahh. Fred) being just. herself., oh..... It's ....gah!!!
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Mar 21, 2004 22:56:30 GMT -5
Hi, everyone I've found a WIP that's hooked me! I started reading a chapter on break and just realized that 6 hours had passed and I'm still reading,and still in awe. Here's the URL: www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=thebratqueen&keyword=Pet&filter=allIt's The Brat Queen's LJ memories; the story, which has 28 chapters, is called, Pet. Set in an AU Season 5 AtS; It's Wesley/Angel/Spike, and, aside from Jenny, I'd never read any of this 'ship before. It's awesome. It's got plot, great characterization, dialogue that you'll swear comes from AtS episodes, humor, the scary, everything. Go there now. Read. Come back and post! MHAHAHA. This is primo. I guarantee: you'll be reading till the wee hours. The sex is sometimes subtle, sometimes overt. It's not as overt sex as Jenny, but it is, Goddess help me, HOT! There's BDSM, there's Spike at his Spikiest, giving love advice, to Wesley and Angel, there's Gunn standing up to Angel to defend his friend, there's Angel as you haven't seen him since Season 2 -, there's Harmony, ditzy as ever; there's Fred (ahh. Fred) being just. herself., oh..... It's ....gah!!! I thought, from your description, it was complete; it's not--it's a WIP. Nevertheless, entirely readable, as you say, makd. And there *is* a plot. Domination isn't something I much enjoy reading, but as you say, the Spike is quite nice. The dialogue and humor are good. So except that I don't care much for the premise, I echo your praise.
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Post by makd on Mar 21, 2004 23:44:23 GMT -5
I thought, from your description, it was complete; it's not--it's a WIP. Nevertheless, entirely readable, as you say, makd. And there *is* a plot. Domination isn't something I much enjoy reading, but as you say, the Spike is quite nice. The dialogue and humor are good. So except that I don't care much for the premise, I echo your praise. I know; I know. I am NOT into that whole domination thing, but that whole first Part? Angel's response to Wes just roped me in. Then, the dialogue and the humor - and the wonderful ability TBQ has to write dialogue totally in character for everyone: Spike, Angel, Wes, Harmony (I love her Harmony!), Fred, Gunn, etc. I especially enjoyed three scenes: 1. Wes being drunk - with Spike and Angel trying to make some sense of it without themselves laughing too much. 2. Angel's glee at not having to sit through any more meetings for the rest of the week, followed by a meeting of the entire Team Angel, which now includes Harmony and Spike. 3. Wes and Spike snarking about Cambridge vs. Oxford. These scenes had me laughing outloud! I think I've read each of them four times, just for the humor.... And, really, they could be inserted into any episode of AtS and they'd fit, and we'd be laughing like Smiletime. I've never gotten the whole Wes/Angel 'ship. I still don't - and yet...I read this, loved it, and bookmarked the LJ to check on updates once a week.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Mar 28, 2004 1:33:13 GMT -5
Herself has a WIP, originally untitled, now called "Where They Have to Take You In," a part of her BitterSweets series, which I've generally but not universally enjoyed. Her Buffy is rather a pill, to use an old phrase. In it, Spike deals with Buffy's being unfaithful and with his 21-year-old son, John, being turned by Dru. It has one of the most sympathetic portrayals of Angel around. It does contain some M/M sex, but that's not the point of the story, any more than it is in Herself's other work that involve Spike with a guy. It's in her LiveJournal and runs already to some 35 brief parts at this point (mid-March). www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=herself_nyc&keyword=Untitled+WIP+About+Spike+%26+Buffy%27s+son&filter=all You'll need to paste the URL above into your browser, eliminating any space following the question mark (bml?), rather than using it as a link: it's so long it made the whole page distort.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 31, 2004 8:26:11 GMT -5
Hi, everyone I've found a WIP that's hooked me! I started reading a chapter on break and just realized that 6 hours had passed and I'm still reading,and still in awe. Here's the URL: www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=thebratqueen&keyword=Pet&filter=allIt's The Brat Queen's LJ memories; the story, which has 28 chapters, is called, Pet. Set in an AU Season 5 AtS; It's Wesley/Angel/Spike, and, aside from Jenny, I'd never read any of this 'ship before. It's awesome. It's got plot, great characterization, dialogue that you'll swear comes from AtS episodes, humor, the scary, everything. Go there now. Read. Come back and post! MHAHAHA. This is primo. I guarantee: you'll be reading till the wee hours. The sex is sometimes subtle, sometimes overt. It's not as overt sex as Jenny, but it is, Goddess help me, HOT! There's BDSM, there's Spike at his Spikiest, giving love advice, to Wesley and Angel, there's Gunn standing up to Angel to defend his friend, there's Angel as you haven't seen him since Season 2 -, there's Harmony, ditzy as ever; there's Fred (ahh. Fred) being just. herself., oh..... It's ....gah!!! Thanks for the rec! I really like her Spike - all snarky and annoying with Angel and the gang on the surface and so really sweet and mushy about Wes and Angel underneath. And it's got plot! I'll be reading this to see how her unique idea about resolving the W&H problem compares with the actual season. Her guys have just decided to be much more take charge and organized than the real fang gang has been - good on Wes for coming up with the plan - so it'll be neat to compare outcomes. And the sex is very nummy. So, bonus. Lola
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on May 3, 2004 18:35:34 GMT -5
There's a very new S/X/B developing on wisteria's LJ, www.livejournal.com/users/wisteria_/ - called "Mescla"; only three eps so far, plus a bit of random randiness which has the distinguishing characteristic of being the first slash I read. Two very broken humans and a screwed up vampire trying to keep from hurting or getting hurt. Wisteria writes some of the most emotionally convincing fic I've read, and this is shaping up nicely, although she's only updating once a week or so, darn. Julia, also "Correspondance" is up to Chapter 17, and Spike and Buffy (and Spike and Xander) have been writing now that Fred is Illyria (because, who'd want Email from Illyria?
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on May 12, 2004 19:45:12 GMT -5
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