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Post by betsyAB on Nov 19, 2003 22:51:05 GMT -5
Eve with Lindsay. I NEVER would have guessed it. And she's really playing Fred. Guess Eve knows who really holds the power in that group. Lindsay - I'm so glad to see that boy. The tatoos, the hair, the smile. I wonder how he got his hand back. So many questions. I know! That was the last thing I expected to see. But it was so awesome! I'm totally glad I didn't read that on the spoiler board! And how great was that when Spike grabbed Harm and pulled her into the office? I know we were all against that happening, but the context was perfect and didn't bother me at all. This show was the best one yet. I wish other staff writers like the ones on Smallville would watch Angel so they could get it right. Already I'm getting bored with the Lana/Clark love story and they're losing me with the Lex in an insane asylum story. Bored now.
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Post by makd on Nov 19, 2003 22:53:08 GMT -5
Eve and Lindsay took advantage of Wesley's absence. The gang has to stick together if they're going to beat this thing, whatever that is. So where did the cat and the conduit to the SP go? Do Eve and Lindsay have that much power? What did Gunn say - that he looked down into the "howling abyss"? Gunn seemed to see the real Eve, too. Harmony was channeling something with her comment to Spike about Buffy. I think the bloody-eye/rage attack prompted people's fears and rage to manifest. Thus, Harmony, normally sweet and ditzy, became enraged and angry because she knew that Spike was using her. Of course, prior to this, as Spike was pulling her to an empty office, she was all smiley cause, you know, Boink!Spike. Gunn manifested his fear and rage about Eve toward her. I think it (the minor apocalypse) released fears and rage. and, not the last question of the hour: So then, E/L sent the envelope to Spike? which means, they also sent the amulet to Angel? Yes, Yes, Have I finally got it, Dr. Higgins?
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Post by ellie on Nov 19, 2003 22:56:12 GMT -5
.")
Did the fight between Angel and Spike remind anyone else of the classic Batman/Joker fight at the end of the first Batman movie? (Michael Keaton/Jack Nicholson fight.) I mean the whole "Dru sired me, but you made me a monster" "I didn't make you, I just opened the door" (or something like that -- I didn't get it all). It just echoed the Joker saying to Batman "You made me." And Batman's response "I made you -- you made me first."
. evening Laura- That scene did spark a memory for me too but until you mentioned the Batman scene I couldn't put my finger on it. By George I think you've got it. I am wondering how that is going to play out for the 2 vampires? I loved the interplay- they both have such a rich reservoir of memories and resentments- it is going to be delicious.
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Post by Laura on Nov 19, 2003 22:56:36 GMT -5
Well....Sirk translated the end of the prophecy (but of course, he was a minion for Eve and Lindsey [oops! Sean]), as "it ain't over till the fat lady sings". Like all Wagnerian operas. so---Wagnerian opera....Isn't there a legend in one of the Wagnerian operas about a cup/chalice? Was that Parsifal? Laura, I know you are an opera buff --- Help? and Opera --- doesn't that mean, "work" or "task"? If so, isn't TPTB's champion one who does the work, performs the task? am I brain-bubbling here? must take breath. must take breath. must take breath. Yes -- it is Parsifal -- and it involves the Holy Grail. I'm posting the summary from the Metropolitan Opera website:Parsifal Richard Wagner ACT I. Medieval Spain. In a forest near the castle of Monsalvat, Gurnemanz, knight of the Holy Grail, rises with two young Esquires from sleep. Two other Knights arrive to prepare a morning bath for their ailing leader, Amfortas, who suffers from an incurable wound. Kundry, an ageless woman of many guises, rushes in wildly with balsam for Amfortas. The king and his entourage enter, accept the gift and proceed to the nearby lake. As Gurnemanz bewails Amfortas' wound, his companions ask him to tell about the sorcerer Klingsor, who once tried to join the knightly brotherhood. Denied because of his worldly lust, he tried to gain acceptance by castrating himself and again was rejected. Now an implacable foe, Klingsor entrapped Amfortas with a beautiful woman: while the king was lying in her arms, Klingsor snatched from him the holy spear (which had pierced Christ's side) and stabbed Amfortas. The wound can be healed only by an innocent youth made wise through compassion. Suddenly a swan falls to the ground, struck by an arrow. The Knights drag in a youth, Parsifal, whom Gurnemanz rebukes for shooting the bird. The young man flings away his bow and arrows in shame. Kundry relates that his father, Gamuret, died in battle; his mother, Herzeleide, reared the boy in the forest, but now she too is dead. As the Knights carry Amfortas' litter back, Gurnemanz leads Parsifal to the castle, wondering if he may be the prophecy's fulfillment.
In the lofty Hall of the Grail, Amfortas and his Knights prepare to commemorate the Last Supper. The voice of the leader's father, the aged Titurel, bids him uncover the holy vessel, but Amfortas hesitates, his anguish rising in the presence of the blood of Christ. At length Titurel orders the Esquires to uncover the chalice, which casts a glow about the hall. As bread and wine are offered, an invisible choir is heard from above. Parsifal understands nothing, though he clutches his heart when Amfortas cries out in pain. Gurnemanz angrily drives the uncomprehending youth away.
ACT II. Klingsor summons his thrall Kundry to seduce Parsifal. Having secured Amfortas' spear, he now seeks to inherit the Grail by destroying Parsifal, whom he recognizes as the order's salvation. Kundry, hoping for redemption, protests in vain.
In Klingsor's magic garden, Flowermaidens beg for Parsifal's embrace but disappear when Kundry, transformed into a siren, enters to woo him with tender memories of his childhood and mother. As she offers a passionate kiss, the youth recoils, understanding at last the mystery of Amfortas' wound and his own mission. Kundry now tries to lure him through pity for the weary life she has been forced to lead ever since she laughed at Christ on the cross, but again she is repulsed. Cursing Parsifal to wander hopelessly in search of Monsalvat, she calls on Klingsor, who hurls the holy spear. The youth catches it and makes the sign of the cross, causing the castle to vanish.
ACT III. Gurnemanz, now an old hermit, finds the penitent Kundry exhausted in a thicket. As he revives her, a knight in armor approaches. Gurnemanz recognizes Parsifal and the spear. The knight describes years of trying to find his way back to Amfortas and the Grail. Gurnemanz removes Parsifal's armor. Kundry washes his feet, drying them with her hair. In return, he baptizes her, then exclaims at the beauty of the spring fields. Distant bells announce the funeral of Titurel. They walk toward the castle. The Communion table has vanished from the Hall of the Grail. No longer able to uncover the chalice, Amfortas begs the Knights to end his anguish with death, but Parsifal touches him with the spear, which heals the wound. Raising the chalice, he accepts the homage of the Knights as their new leader. Kundry, released at last from her curse of wandering, falls dying.
-------------------------------------------------------------- courtesy of Opera News
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Post by Karen on Nov 19, 2003 23:00:44 GMT -5
I think the bloody-eye/rage attack prompted people's fears and rage to manifest. Thus, Harmony, normally sweet and ditzy, became enraged and angry because she knew that Spike was using her. Of course, prior to this, as Spike was pulling her to an empty office, she was all smiley cause, you know, Boink!Spike. Gunn manifested his fear and rage about Eve toward her. I think it (the minor apocalypse) released fears and rage. and, not the last question of the hour: So then, E/L sent the envelope to Spike? which means, they also sent the amulet to Angel? Yes, Yes, Have I finally got it, Dr. Higgins? By George, I think she's got it. Well makes sense so far's we know. I wonder why the bloody/rage only effected some people. I about totally lost it with the toner guy. LOL!!! Oh man, do I get that one. Let me tell you, you know Laura and her rage against her paralegal? Well, I could tell you stories about some of the stupid, idiotic, lazy..... But back to Angel.
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Post by makd on Nov 19, 2003 23:01:35 GMT -5
Yes -- it is Parsifal -- and it involves the Holy Grail. I'm posting the summary from the Metropolitan Opera website:Parsifal Richard Wagner ACT I. Medieval Spain. In a forest near the castle of Monsalvat, Gurnemanz, knight of the Holy Grail, rises with two young Esquires from sleep. Two other Knights arrive to prepare a morning bath for their ailing leader, Amfortas, who suffers from an incurable wound. Kundry, an ageless woman of many guises, rushes in wildly with balsam for Amfortas. The king and his entourage enter, accept the gift and proceed to the nearby lake. As Gurnemanz bewails Amfortas' wound, his companions ask him to tell about the sorcerer Klingsor, who once tried to join the knightly brotherhood. Denied because of his worldly lust, he tried to gain acceptance by castrating himself and again was rejected. Now an implacable foe, Klingsor entrapped Amfortas with a beautiful woman: while the king was lying in her arms, Klingsor snatched from him the holy spear (which had pierced Christ's side) and stabbed Amfortas. The wound can be healed only by an innocent youth made wise through compassion. Suddenly a swan falls to the ground, struck by an arrow. The Knights drag in a youth, Parsifal, whom Gurnemanz rebukes for shooting the bird. The young man flings away his bow and arrows in shame. Kundry relates that his father, Gamuret, died in battle; his mother, Herzeleide, reared the boy in the forest, but now she too is dead. As the Knights carry Amfortas' litter back, Gurnemanz leads Parsifal to the castle, wondering if he may be the prophecy's fulfillment.
In the lofty Hall of the Grail, Amfortas and his Knights prepare to commemorate the Last Supper. The voice of the leader's father, the aged Titurel, bids him uncover the holy vessel, but Amfortas hesitates, his anguish rising in the presence of the blood of Christ. At length Titurel orders the Esquires to uncover the chalice, which casts a glow about the hall. As bread and wine are offered, an invisible choir is heard from above. Parsifal understands nothing, though he clutches his heart when Amfortas cries out in pain. Gurnemanz angrily drives the uncomprehending youth away.
ACT II. Klingsor summons his thrall Kundry to seduce Parsifal. Having secured Amfortas' spear, he now seeks to inherit the Grail by destroying Parsifal, whom he recognizes as the order's salvation. Kundry, hoping for redemption, protests in vain.
In Klingsor's magic garden, Flowermaidens beg for Parsifal's embrace but disappear when Kundry, transformed into a siren, enters to woo him with tender memories of his childhood and mother. As she offers a passionate kiss, the youth recoils, understanding at last the mystery of Amfortas' wound and his own mission. Kundry now tries to lure him through pity for the weary life she has been forced to lead ever since she laughed at Christ on the cross, but again she is repulsed. Cursing Parsifal to wander hopelessly in search of Monsalvat, she calls on Klingsor, who hurls the holy spear. The youth catches it and makes the sign of the cross, causing the castle to vanish.
ACT III. Gurnemanz, now an old hermit, finds the penitent Kundry exhausted in a thicket. As he revives her, a knight in armor approaches. Gurnemanz recognizes Parsifal and the spear. The knight describes years of trying to find his way back to Amfortas and the Grail. Gurnemanz removes Parsifal's armor. Kundry washes his feet, drying them with her hair. In return, he baptizes her, then exclaims at the beauty of the spring fields. Distant bells announce the funeral of Titurel. They walk toward the castle. The Communion table has vanished from the Hall of the Grail. No longer able to uncover the chalice, Amfortas begs the Knights to end his anguish with death, but Parsifal touches him with the spear, which heals the wound. Raising the chalice, he accepts the homage of the Knights as their new leader. Kundry, released at last from her curse of wandering, falls dying.
-------------------------------------------------------------- courtesy of Opera News
Thank you, Laura. Sadly, I now remember why I like my operas Italian and French, and my desserts German.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Nov 19, 2003 23:02:47 GMT -5
Yes -- it is Parsifal -- and it involves the Holy Grail. I'm posting the summary from the Metropolitan Opera website:Parsifal Richard Wagner In which scenario, Angel would be the wounded, impotent king...with Spike as Parsifal/Percival, the perfect knight, who heals him. Maybe.
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Post by ellie on Nov 19, 2003 23:03:33 GMT -5
I know! That was the last thing I expected to see. But it was so awesome! I'm totally glad I didn't read that on the spoiler board! And how great was that when Spike grabbed Harm and pulled her into the office? I know we were all against that happening, but the context was perfect and didn't bother me at all. This show was the best one yet. I wish other staff writers like the ones on Smallville would watch Angel so they could get it right. Already I'm getting bored with the Lana/Clark love story and they're losing me with the Lex in an insane asylum story. Bored now. betsyAB- - I had just about given up on Smallville and tonight I decided to give it another try and was totally hooked! I thouhgt the actor playing Lex nailed the crazy scenes and it felt like the characters were finally deepening past their stereoptypical tv teens. It felt like lterhe was some context to all the angsty Lana/clark stuff and some background to why Lex will end up hating Supeman for the rest of his life. ( My husband tokd me the comic book made it all about him blaming Superman for his baldness- how lame is that?) probably by next week I will be back to thinking Smallville is irredemiably lame -
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Post by LadyDi on Nov 19, 2003 23:03:56 GMT -5
You people are the best, really. Thanks for the good wishes. Knew you'd come thru for me. Never thought I'd hate living in CA, but I can't wait for 9pm (a whole hour!). I'm spoiled anyway, so no prob reading your posts. Glad the Spike/Harm thing was handled well. Really hated that when I first read about it. So looking forward to tonight's ep.!
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Post by ellie on Nov 19, 2003 23:05:38 GMT -5
Lindsay's back and they're gonna be in trouble Hey Na Hey Na Lindsay's back He's up to no good Chaos gonna be double Hey Na Hey Na Lindsay's back Oh yeah!!!!
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Post by makd on Nov 19, 2003 23:07:02 GMT -5
By George, I think she's got it. Well makes sense so far's we know. I wonder why the bloody/rage only effected some people. I about totally lost it with the toner guy. LOL!!! Oh man, do I get that one. Let me tell you, you know Laura and her rage against her paralegal? Well, I could tell you stories about some of the stupid, idiotic, lazy..... But back to Angel. In that case: The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. (I think I've got it!) The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. And where does it mainly rain? In Spain. In Spain. And where does it rain in Spain? On the plain. On the plain. The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain. [glow=red,2,300]OH YES! I'VE GOT IT! I'VE REALLY GOT IT![/glow] I'M PROCESSING GOOD. I'M GETTING THE ARC! HUMMING ALONG..... oh, yes? tonight's episode? Sorry....OT, I know. I apologize. Let me get back into the comfy chair. So sorry. Channeling Lerner and Loewe, yeah? ...(I think they used some runes in the Icelandic production.....)
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Post by RustyGoode on Nov 19, 2003 23:07:39 GMT -5
I wonder how Opera signifies here? For instance "opera" is the plural of "opus": a work, a deed, an action or accomplishment. So is it past, half-forgotten works and deeds we're dealing with here? I thought of the Grail as well, especially when Spike remarked about it being all gold and everything re: Indianan Jones. This episode was bloody fabulous! The fight was everything I wanted to see between Angel and Spike. It has so many aspects. The son finally winning a fight over the abusive "father" (which brings up the question of Spike being the "son" in the prophecy?), Angel's guilt, Spike's revenge, worthiness, etc. Glad Lindsey's back. Quite the tats.
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Post by Karen on Nov 19, 2003 23:07:42 GMT -5
betsyAB- - I had just about given up on Smallville and tonight I decided to give it another try and was totally hooked! I thouhgt the actor playing Lex nailed the crazy scenes and it felt like the characters were finally deepening past their stereoptypical tv teens. It felt like lterhe was some context to all the angsty Lana/clark stuff and some background to why Lex will end up hating Supeman for the rest of his life. ( My husband tokd me the comic book made it all about him blaming Superman for his baldness- how lame is that?) probably by next week I will be back to thinking Smallville is irredemiably lame - I watch Smallville only for the story about Lex and his father. I've always liked the Lex character.
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Post by makd on Nov 19, 2003 23:08:15 GMT -5
In which scenario, Angel would be the wounded, impotent king...with Spike as Parsifal/Percival, the perfect knight, who heals him. Maybe. Yeah, we hope so, at least by the end of the season.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 19, 2003 23:08:56 GMT -5
And so much for the theory that Dru drained William but Angelus sired him (i.e., fed him on his blood). This was a reasonable if fanwanky speculation. It's now canon that he'd never even heard of Angelus for some time after he was turned and enjoyed a kind of bloody honeymoon with Dru before Angelus entered the picture. YES! I'm right again! ALSO - we pretty much know there was no 'slashing' going on, except for their chests, with rebars and stuff. Spike WON! So cool. How come Spike never did that vampires leap tall buildings thing in Sunnydale?Does that only work in LA? Dang it was a great episode!
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